Omer Asik Trade - Updated link pg.109

15th overall · Post #241 » by **15th overall** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:03 pm

You don't think Jeff Green is a replaceable player? Seriously?

Valid · Post #242 » by **Valid** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:04 pm

15th overall wrote:I actually like Jeff but feel like I'm being forced into a position where I have to "hate on" him... the guy just isn't a core player for an elite team. At best he can play the Lamar Odom role as the #4 on a championship team.

If he's the only thing standing between you and one of the more dominant defensive bigs in the league, then you send him packing ASAP. Stevens is fapping to whatever advanced defensive metrics are on Asik's basketball reference page right now.. I'd love to see what kind of havoc Brad can cook up with this guy in the mix.

Worry about who's running next to Rondo later. It's not like we don't have the pieces to get someone better than Jeff Green anyway.

Asik isn't nearly as dominant defensively as some of you have been led to believe. He isn't as great of a rim-protector as you'd expect, and he is somewhat of a liability in the pick-and-roll due to his lack of quickness.

Throw in the fact that he is useless offensively on top of that, and I don't see why we'd trade our No. 1 option for him.

shawn unkempt · Post #243 » by **shawn unkempt** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:04 pm

Jeff Green is so underrated on this board because he's not an elite go to guy. He's a player who scores extremely efficiently in the flow of an offense and amazing in transition. You all expect him to magically do things he doesn't even have the skill set to do. Put that BS aside and appreciate what he brings to the team. If we trade him for Asik I'll be pissed.

Valid · Post #244 » by **Valid** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:04 pm

15th overall wrote:You don't think Jeff Green is a replaceable player? Seriously?

It's not that he isn't replaceable (even though I don't think he's as replaceable as you believe). It's just that trading him for Asik is not a very good way to maximize your assets. If we're trading Green, I want him to be part of a package where we get a star in return. Not a player who can't play big minutes because he is a liability on one of the floor.

smith2373 · Post #245 » by **smith2373** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:10 pm

shawn unkempt wrote:Jeff Green is so underrated on this board because he's not an elite go to guy. He's a player who scores extremely efficiently in the flow of an offense and amazing in transition. You all expect him to magically do things he doesn't even have the skill set to do. Put that BS aside and appreciate what he brings to the team. If we trade him for Asik I'll be pissed.

Agreed 100%

People talk about Jeff Green is so replaceable, what does Asik bring to the table that's so special?

Because he's a big man that can rebound? He has absolutely no offensive game, he's not a great shot blocker, he's not a good passer. Hell you really can't even him in the game in 4th quarters because teams will just hack him and send him to the FT line and then in crunch time when you can't hack, we'd be playing 4 on 5, if he's even in the game. He's a true center that is starting quality and that's something we don't have on this team right now and haven't had in a while, I get that. But if you get rid of Jeff then that creates another problem. Then we'll lack our go-to scorer, we'll lack a great perimeter defender, what Jeff brings to the table is very significant for this team.

15th overall · Post #246 » by **15th overall** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:15 pm

Just to clarify, I don't think Asik is a destination himself, but a huge step toward building a contender. I'm operating under the premise that this would mean that Danny's next objective would be to put a Star wingplayer alongside Rondo/Avery/Sully/Asik.

For convenience let's say Carmelo is the one in Ainge's crosshairs... If Danny can piece together Rondo/Avery/Melo/Sully/Asik, is Jeff Green really going to be sorely missed? He's a nice player but he's really a luxury item... We need to start collecting championship pieces at this stage.

CelticFaninLBC · Post #247 » by **CelticFaninLBC** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:15 pm

Valid wrote:
CelticFaninLBC wrote:
smith2373 wrote:
Yeah, money to offer a FA that would be inferior to both Green & Turner.

My point is if we were to trade for Turner or Hayward, then there's pretty much no way we keep them in free agency without overpaying them. And I'd rather keep Jeff at his $9 mil a year than overpay an Evan Turner or a Gordon Hayward. And then also have an overpaid Omer Asik on the books.

Asik and Green are similar statistically, so I guess Ainge is overpaying Green too...

How can you possibly compare Asik and Green statistically? They are two polar opposite players.

win shares/48

CelticFaninLBC · Post #248 » by **CelticFaninLBC** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:16 pm

smith2373 wrote:
CelticFaninLBC wrote:
smith2373 wrote:
Asik will be getting paid $15 mil a year next season. I'd much rather pay Jeff Green $9 mil a year than pay Asik $15 mil.

It's a $8.374 million cap hit though.

But he will still be paid $15 mil.

He's just not worth it to me. Like I said earlier, he's a better rebounding version of Perkins when he was in Boston. And might be worse offensively than Perkins was.

Let Wyc worry about that.

SirTankalot · Post #249 » by **SirTankalot** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:19 pm

shawn unkempt wrote:Jeff Green is so underrated on this board because he's not an elite go to guy. He's a player who scores extremely efficiently in the flow of an offense and amazing in transition. You all expect him to magically do things he doesn't even have the skill set to do. Put that BS aside and appreciate what he brings to the team. If we trade him for Asik I'll be pissed.

Jeff Green is a 45/40/80 SF who doesn't rebound, doesn't create for others, and is an average scorer and defender. You build a team from the inside with defense and those players are not easy to acquire. Moving Green for Asik put the Celtics in a better position down the road once they acquire real talent through the lottery.

smith2373 · Post #250 » by **smith2373** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:20 pm

15th overall wrote:Just to clarify, I don't think Asik is a destination himself, but a huge step toward building a contender. I'm operating under the premise that this would mean that Danny's next objective would be to put a Star wingplayer alongside Rondo/Avery/Sully/Asik.

For convenience let's say Carmelo is the one in Ainge's crosshairs... If Danny can piece together Rondo/Avery/Melo/Sully/Asik, is Jeff Green really going to be sorely missed? He's a nice player but he's really a luxury item... We need to start collecting championship pieces at this stage.

That is very unrealistic.

Carmelo would never in a million years sign here in free agency. And I I seriously doubt the Knicks would trade Carmelo to us of all teams.

SirTankalot · Post #251 » by **SirTankalot** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:21 pm

smith2373 wrote:Because he's a big man that can rebound? He has absolutely no offensive game, he's not a great shot blocker, he's not a good passer. Hell you really can't even him in the game in 4th quarters because teams will just hack him and send him to the FT line and then in crunch time when you can't hack, we'd be playing 4 on 5, if he's even in the game. He's a true center that is starting quality and that's something we don't have on this team right now and haven't had in a while, I get that. But if you get rid of Jeff then that creates another problem. Then we'll lack our go-to scorer, we'll lack a great perimeter defender, what Jeff brings to the table is very significant for this team.

Wait, the 11-14 Celtics will lack their go-to scorer of 16.9 PPG?

smith2373 · Post #252 » by **smith2373** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:22 pm

SirTankalot wrote:
smith2373 wrote:Because he's a big man that can rebound? He has absolutely no offensive game, he's not a great shot blocker, he's not a good passer. Hell you really can't even him in the game in 4th quarters because teams will just hack him and send him to the FT line and then in crunch time when you can't hack, we'd be playing 4 on 5, if he's even in the game. He's a true center that is starting quality and that's something we don't have on this team right now and haven't had in a while, I get that. But if you get rid of Jeff then that creates another problem. Then we'll lack our go-to scorer, we'll lack a great perimeter defender, what Jeff brings to the table is very significant for this team.

Wait, the 11-14 Celtics will lack their go-to scorer of 16.9 PPG?

Yeah we would. But Jordan Crawford is gonna be great as the #1 option. And he'll have more shot opportunities since we'd be playing 4 on 5 on offense since Asik is a liability on that end.

SirTankalot · Post #253 » by **SirTankalot** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:25 pm

smith2373 wrote:Yeah we would. But Jordan Crawford is gonna be great as the #1 option. And he'll have more shot opportunities since we'd be playing 4 on 5 on offense since Asik is a liability on that end.

Sign me up. And you should sign yourself up too, because if you're really #ALLABOUT18, you'd know that defense and legitimate young talent is how you build a team.

15th overall · Post #254 » by **15th overall** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:29 pm

I don't wanna bog down this thread with Carmelo talk, but, really, what are his choices at this point? Stay in NY or goto the Lakers? Neither are looking very appealing right now.

To me it looks like Carmelo has finally gotten to the point where winning a championship is his top priority. We went through all these phases with Pierce as well. Melo apparently sweats Rondo and we've got an established reputation as a stable (and relevant) franchise in a big market. We could become a very appealing destination for a star wing like Melo if Rondo/Sully/Asik are in place.

BleedGreen1989 · Post #255 » by **BleedGreen1989** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:29 pm

Brandon Bass, Courtney Lee, 2015 LAC first. Boom. Get it done.

Pick up Asik and get out of the nearly $6mill we owe Lee in his last year.

smith2373 · Post #256 » by **smith2373** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:30 pm

SirTankalot wrote:
smith2373 wrote:Yeah we would. But Jordan Crawford is gonna be great as the #1 option. And he'll have more shot opportunities since we'd be playing 4 on 5 on offense since Asik is a liability on that end.

Sign me up. And you should sign yourself up too, because if you're really #ALLABOUT18, you'd know that defense and legitimate young talent is how you build a team.

Yeah I'm signing up. Jordan Crawford the #1 option with Omer Perkins as the center.

Put me on the bandwagon :rockon:

Andrew McCeltic · Post #257 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:31 pm

I think you guys are dwelling too much on Green.. Asik is a role player, I think Bass/pick would get it done.. I'll be surprised if we deal Green for Asik and don't get back a replacement scorer in the deal.

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smith2373 · Post #258 » by **smith2373** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:32 pm

15th overall wrote:I don't wanna bog down this thread with Carmelo talk, but, really, what are his choices at this point? Stay in NY or goto the Lakers? Neither are looking very appealing right now.

To me it looks like Carmelo has finally gotten to the point where winning a championship is his top priority. We went through all these phases with Pierce as well. Melo apparently sweats Rondo and we've got an established reputation as a stable (and relevant) franchise in a big market. We could become a very appealing destination for a star wing like Melo if Rondo/Sully/Asik are in place.

There's a better chance of Rondo going to New York or LA to team up with Carmelo than there is for Carmelo signing with the Celtics in free agency.

Melo isn't going to come running to Boston just because we have Rondo, the overrated overpaid one-dimensional Omer Asik and Sully. We have absolutely no shot.

15th overall · Post #259 » by **15th overall** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:36 pm

Well he sure as hell ain't sticking around NY, so what are his options? Kobe and the Lakers? After the Dolan circus I can't imagine the Buss family dynamic is looking particularly attractive right now,. Other than that who's out there? Dallas, maybe? Atlanta? Phoenix? We can absolutely be in the mix for Carmelo if we so desire.

smith2373 · Post #260 » by **smith2373** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:40 pm

15th overall wrote:Well he sure as hell ain't sticking around NY, so what are his options? Kobe and the Lakers? After the Dolan circus I can't imagine the Buss family dynamic is looking particularly attractive right now,. Other than that who's out there? Dallas, maybe? Atlanta? Phoenix? We can absolutely be in the mix for Carmelo if we so desire.

Atlanta, Phoenix and Dallas have no shot as well.

Carmelo will either stay with the Knicks or sign with the Lakers. We can surely "be in the mix" just like a bunch of teams were for the likes of LeBron, Dwight, CP3, etc. but ultimately we won't get him.