MVP discussion thread

[Doctor MJ]

Hypothetical

If Aldridge won the MVP would that be a better or a worse choice than Rose winning the MVP?

Eh, thing is: I don't see what Aldridge argument even is. He's a great player, but no matter how you look at it, someone else is contributing more impact.

The thing with Rose was that there actually was a narrative for him. There was never any doubt that that narrative was entirely dependent on bad luck on the part of other players, but at least it existed.

If Portland comes off of a 33-49 record and is led by LMA to 60+ wins this year, while he averages 23/11 and comes up big against the big teams (OKC. Indiana, Houston), then there's definitely a narrative.

It doesn't work like that.

Aldrdige is a veteran player who was on the team last year. The fact that the team would have gotten 30 wins better despite having Aldridge both years basically tells you right there that the story of the team's success is not about him.

Terry Stotts would win COY though.

[Doctor MJ]

Hypothetical

If Aldridge won the MVP would that be a better or a worse choice than Rose winning the MVP?

Eh, thing is: I don't see what Aldridge argument even is. He's a great player, but no matter how you look at it, someone else is contributing more impact.

The thing with Rose was that there actually was a narrative for him. There was never any doubt that that narrative was entirely dependent on bad luck on the part of other players, but at least it existed.

It's not likely at all, but there is a path to MVP for Aldridge. The narrative would go something like this: Blazers win 60 games and the Northwest Division crown over the Thunder. Aldridge does 24/11 with historically low turnover totals for the best offense in the NBA. The Blazers remain the story of the season and the media falls in love with their humble leader.

When was the last time you can think of something like this happening?

And to be clear: Any guy who got the MVP by joining a team and appearing to revolutionize them that year is not a real analogy.

I won't say what you say is impossible, but I honestly can't think of any example where an NBA player who'd been on the team for years got MVP credit for the team's sudden success. It's a very MLB/NFL thing to happen I'll grant you though.

[NaturalThunder]

Yes, it was the Magic, but Durant was Durant again tonight:

28 points, 9 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 blocks, 1 steal, 11/18 FG

[QPR]

Looks nice on paper but if Durant was Durant tonight, there's no way Orlando nearly steal that game. Seems like he basically took the last quarter off.

[NaturalThunder]

Looks nice on paper but if Durant was Durant tonight, there's no way Orlando nearly steal that game. Seems like he basically took the last quarter off.

He didn't play the first 6 or 7 minutes of the first quarter, but yes, he and the rest of the starters did fall asleep when they came back in the game.

[ThePersianFreak]

As every non-Pacers fan predicted, PG is starting to cool off

KD
LeBron
.
.
.
PG/CP3/LMA

KD has been brilliant and has been the best player in the league for the past 2-3 weeks.

[NapoleonII]

It'd KD's to lose at this point.

[barborous]

Statistically, CP3 is still very much close to KD/LeBron. If the Clips start rolling (i.e. Dudley stops sucking so much and Redick comes back) he can still catch up.

[cucad8]

When was the last time you can think of something like this happening?

And to be clear: Any guy who got the MVP by joining a team and appearing to revolutionize them that year is not a real analogy.

I won't say what you say is impossible, but I honestly can't think of any example where an NBA player who'd been on the team for years got MVP credit for the team's sudden success. It's a very MLB/NFL thing to happen I'll grant you though.

Kobe's MVP year? Not exact by any means, but he went from out of the playoffs, then 2 one and done seasons, and then his MVP season.

[NaturalThunder]

Just because I'm still seeing/hearing random things on the interwebs, radio, and TV about George being the "first quarter" MVP:

Raw Stats
Kevin Durant: 23 G, 38.1 MPG, 28.5 PPG, 8.3 RPG, 4.9 APG, 1.5 SPG, 1.0 BPG, 3.4 TOV, .487 FG%, .402 3P%, .880 FT%, .624 TS%

Paul George: 23 G, 36.7 MPG, 24.1 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 3.5 APG, 2.0 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 2.7 TOV, .466 FG%, .416 3P%, .848 FT%, .594 TS%


Advanced Stats
Kevin Durant: 28.3 PER, 11.7 TRB%, 22.8 AST%, 13.1 TOV%, 120 ORtg, 99 DRtg, 3.8 OWS, 1.5 DWS, 5.3 WS, .290 WS/48

Paul George: 23.6 PER, 8.7 TRB%, 18.1 AST%, 11.7 TOV%, 113 ORTg, 95 DRtg, 2.4 OWS, 1.9 DWS, 4.3 WS, .245 WS/48

I mean what case does George have over Durant at this point? Never mind that the Pacers are only one game better than the Thunder, although OKC's SOS is 6th while Indy's is 22nd; Durant's simply having a superior season and is a better player than George.

[tsherkin]

Better choice, much better.

Aldridge is a superb offensive big, plus he gives you good defense. Rose just isn't and never was that good.

Rose was better. He led a mediocre team to 62 and 50 wins in 66 games.

They were 6-3 with a bad Rose now 9-13. Nuff said.

You mean the team that won 45 games and a playoff series without him? "Never that good," hmm?

[ThePersianFreak]

Another average performance by PG. 4/14 FG, 1/5 3pt FG, 17pts, 9rbs, 4asts, 4TO in 39 mins. now, that's more like it.

LeBron was good tonite, 13/17 FG, 0/1 3pt FG, 30pts, 9rbs, 9asts, 3TO in 34 mins.

[Run DLC]

Another 1 rebound and 1 assist short of a Triple-double game for LeBron. That's the 100th times in his career that he has came short of getting a triple-double with one assist and one rebound away.

[Run DLC]

It's not too late for LeBron to climb up the ladder again, he just needs to continue putting up numbers like tonight's game.

[Doctor MJ]

When was the last time you can think of something like this happening?

And to be clear: Any guy who got the MVP by joining a team and appearing to revolutionize them that year is not a real analogy.

I won't say what you say is impossible, but I honestly can't think of any example where an NBA player who'd been on the team for years got MVP credit for the team's sudden success. It's a very MLB/NFL thing to happen I'll grant you though.

Kobe's MVP year? Not exact by any means, but he went from out of the playoffs, then 2 one and done seasons, and then his MVP season.

Ah, good point for a caveat: Kobe was already seen as a megastar in need of a bit more help.

I'm really asking: When was the last time a veteran player not seen as anywhere near MVP level in the past, got named MVP by continuing to play on the same team as before. And by "veteran", I mean a guy already seen to be playing in roughly the same sphere statistically as he does that new year.

With Aldridge, if we didn't see the insane team improvement this year, I doubt anyone would be talking about him as even noteworthy right now. His stats are better, but they still aren't insane.

[cucad8]

When was the last time you can think of something like this happening?

And to be clear: Any guy who got the MVP by joining a team and appearing to revolutionize them that year is not a real analogy.

I won't say what you say is impossible, but I honestly can't think of any example where an NBA player who'd been on the team for years got MVP credit for the team's sudden success. It's a very MLB/NFL thing to happen I'll grant you though.

Kobe's MVP year? Not exact by any means, but he went from out of the playoffs, then 2 one and done seasons, and then his MVP season.

Ah, good point for a caveat: Kobe was already seen as a megastar in need of a bit more help.

I'm really asking: When was the last time a veteran player not seen as anywhere near MVP level in the past, got named MVP by continuing to play on the same team as before. And by "veteran", I mean a guy already seen to be playing in roughly the same sphere statistically as he does that new year.

With Aldridge, if we didn't see the insane team improvement this year, I doubt anyone would be talking about him as even noteworthy right now. His stats are better, but they still aren't insane.

But that goes along the same lines. Why should he be rewarded with MVP by staying at a similar level of play but having more team success? Yes, people saw he needed help, but then, when he got that help, he was MVP? That doesn't make much sense. He wasn't MVP worthy prior, apparently, when they were a .500 team. Why should adding Gasol all of a sudden make him so? It's exactly what you asked. Been on team for years getting MVP credit for team success.

[fallacy]

Paul George is falling off the map fast. His last three games he's averaging

14.6 points, 5.3 rebounds, 4.3 assists, 3.6 turnovers, 27% from the field, 29% from three.


Everyone knew that he couldn't keep up what he was doing, but I didn't expect this big of a drop off. But it's only three games, let's see what happens

[dabadguy]

he was never on the map to begin with.

[NinjaSheppard]

It's

LeBron

KD
Chris Paul

and then no one else is in their stratosphere

[Woodsanity]

It's

LeBron

KD
Chris Paul

and then no one else is in their stratosphere

More like

KD

Lebron
Chris Paul

right now.

Team record matters. All three of them are putting up great numbers. Comparable advanced stats and raw numbers.