Official Pierce & KG Thread

[Paradise]

The most ironic and poorly timed commercial of all time

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yUj0Ta44DI[/youtube]

[NyCeEvO]

Celtics fans are probably on to something about KG and Pierce needing more (not fewer minutes):

[tweet]https://twitter.com/HowardBeck/status/410443223509639168[/tweet]

[Prokorov]

Celtics fans are probably on to something about KG and Pierce needing more (not fewer minutes):

[tweet]https://twitter.com/HowardBeck/status/410443223509639168[/tweet]

For me no way i play them more minutes until they earn them. If you cant give me max or even high effort/energy in 20-25 minutes why in the world would i give you 30-35 minutes?

These guys have been enormous failures from a leadership, effort, defensive, and productivity standpoint. and the first 2, leadership and effort are inexcusable. They arent even outplaying the wallace/evans combo of last year.

i dont care if pierce had a broken hand. no excuse for those 2 to be giving bum derrick coleman like efforts and then making excuses after every game and sulking like girls.

man up.

[MaxZaslofskyJr]

The beginning of the season would be the time that KG could play the longer minutes,

Nothing could be simpler.

[DarkXaero]

Prokorov is drazen4three/petro4three, isn't he?

[exculpatory]

Prokorov is drazen4three/petro4three, isn't he?

Does this guy change accounts on a monthly basis?

[jerseyjac]

Prokorov is drazen4three/petro4three, isn't he?

Does this guy change accounts on a monthly basis?

Hope not, but I do know a #1knickfan that does.

[FirstBallotKG]

The beginning of the season would be the time that KG could play the longer minutes,

Nothing could be simpler.

After Brooklyn's win over the Celts game, I was curious to see KG's minutes. I found that his minutes were around the 26min mark - which seems to be a discernible number from the 22.5 mpg that he's had for much of the season. Then I went to check what is the record of the NETS when Garnett plays 26 minutes or more?

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_ ... in-garnett

KG's overall record with Brooklyn is: 7 - 12

However, Brooklyn's record when KG has been in the game for 26 minutes or more, the record is: 5 - 0

Even in games where Garnett has had his minutes at 24 or more, the Nets record is at: 6 - 2

After a quarter of the season played, that's a compelling stat for a team searching for it's identity still.

Glad that Deron was able to return to be the much needed Floor General; Lopez being the dominating offensive presence in the paint; with Pierce adding his toughness and spirit into the mix again. Hopefully, these guys can remain healthy from here on. Additionally, I hope that Coach Kidd will consider KG's minutes and bump them up to the 26min mark. 5-0 is something most coaches would give pause to...food for thought.

[Paradise]

KG is 6th in 1st ballot voting for the East

Sent from my LG-MS770 using Tapatalk

[Prokorov]

The beginning of the season would be the time that KG could play the longer minutes,

Nothing could be simpler.

After Brooklyn's win over the Celts game, I was curious to see KG's minutes. I found that his minutes were around the 26min mark - which seems to be a discernible number from the 22.5 mpg that he's had for much of the season. Then I went to check what is the record of the NETS when Garnett plays 26 minutes or more?

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_ ... in-garnett

KG's overall record with Brooklyn is: 7 - 12

However, Brooklyn's record when KG has been in the game for 26 minutes or more, the record is: 5 - 0

Even in games where Garnett has had his minutes at 24 or more, the Nets record is at: 6 - 2

After a quarter of the season played, that's a compelling stat for a team searching for it's identity still.

Glad that Deron was able to return to be the much needed Floor General; Lopez being the dominating offensive presence in the paint; with Pierce adding his toughness and spirit into the mix again. Hopefully, these guys can remain healthy from here on. Additionally, I hope that Coach Kidd will consider KG's minutes and bump them up to the 26min mark. 5-0 is something most coaches would give pause to...food for thought.

I said this earlier in the year. i dont think you keep KG fresh and healthy by limiting his minutes i think you do it by limiting his games. is 4-5 less minutes a game really doing much? you figure the average starter has 4 shifts in a game. thats like 1:15 seconds extra per shift if he plays those minutes. that isnt going to kill him, and resting him 1:15 seconds earler then normal isnt keeping his legs fresh in may and june. but give him a full night off, on a back to back or after traveling cross country. restriciton his minutes that way has a much bigger differnece.

Id much prefer KG at 28-30 minutes in 65-70 games then KG at 22-25 minutes in 70-75 games

[Prokorov]

KG's overall record with Brooklyn is: 7 - 12

However, Brooklyn's record when KG has been in the game for 26 minutes or more, the record is: 5 - 0

Even in games where Garnett has had his minutes at 24 or more, the Nets record is at: 6 - 2

i think this is deceiving at what you are implying based off it is a bit flawed. (that more KG has meant we are better).

KG has played less minutes in losses because most of those losses have been blowouts or not close games where it is pointless to keep him in the game late. We didnt lose those games because KG didnt play alot, KG didint play alot because we were losing those games by a large margin

[FirstBallotKG]

Well if I didn't complain about KG's minutes - as KG complained about his minutes - early on in the season, you'd might have a better argument. Kevin Garnett is a rhythm player that needs minutes. The time-restraint [of less than half the minutes of a game] placed on him is very unprecedented and unusual. The record when he plays minutes only confirms what I, intuitively, sensed: Brooklyn is in a better chance of winning when he plays 26min or more.

You do realize that achieving 26 minutes for the games already played isn't some marathon/ironman task. Right?

The argument that I've expressed is having simply a small stretch of games [5 games] where he plays regular starters minutes. Then make the adjustments and assessments AFTER having a data sample. Not predicting the future of how KG will perform.

The fact that KG's most minutes played is at 28 reveals that Garnett is NOT allowed to play 30min in any game.

And to specifically address the blowout losses impacting minutes: five games were blowout losses for the Nets where KG played. So if you want to take out those games, that's a record of 7 - 7 when the game was 10 points or less. 7 - 7 when mpg is below 26 minutes compared to 5 - 0 when minutes are 26 and above.

Again, I think most coaches would pay serious attention to that exponential win percentage difference. And I pose this question to you: if X player did Y thing that resulted in 5 - 0 when given Z minutes; then why wouldn't you see if this is correlation or causation?

What benefit is it to the player, the team, the fans and the city of NOT finding out if this is correlation or causation? Is it pride? Is it hubris?

[therealbig3]

Funny story from a little while ago actually: One of the writers on The Brooklyn Game said Garnett fouled a player and sent him to the line, the player missed the first FT, and KG yelled out loud to himself "Good foul Kev!"

That made me LOL. He's intense to the point of crazy, but that's what I've admired about him his entire career. Which is why I was so disappointed he didn't bring that kind of energy more often early on in the season...but better late than never, and he's bringing it now.

[DarkXaero]

Funny story from a little while ago actually: One of the writers on The Brooklyn Game said Garnett fouled a player and sent him to the line, the player missed the first FT, and KG yelled out loud to himself "Good foul Kev!"

That made me LOL. He's intense to the point of crazy, but that's what I've admired about him his entire career. Which is why I was so disappointed he didn't bring that kind of energy more often early on in the season...but better late than never, and he's bringing it now.

Last night during the game, in the second quarter, I think KG picked up his 3rd foul and Kidd was about to bench him but then KG stopped him from benching him. KG's reaction was pretty funny, the commentators didn't pick up on it though and I guess most people didn't.

[Prokorov]

Well if I didn't complain about KG's minutes - as KG complained about his minutes - early on in the season, you'd might have a better argument. Kevin Garnett is a rhythm player that needs minutes. The time-restraint [of less than half the minutes of a game] placed on him is very unprecedented and unusual. The record when he plays minutes only confirms what I, intuitively, sensed: Brooklyn is in a better chance of winning when he plays 26min or more.

I dont disagree he needs to play more minutes. I was just pointing how it is incorrect and extremely mislead to say that his record when he plays bigger minutes confirms we are better when he does so. That stat is extremely skewed by the fact that:

-our losses have been blowouts, and in blowouts he is going to play less since its meanigless to waste him
-our wins, mostly, have been close, and thus he was extended in those games.

we arent losing because he plays less. he plays less because we are losing so much.

And to specifically address the blowout losses impacting minutes: five games were blowout losses for the Nets where KG played. So if you want to take out those games, that's a record of 7 - 7 when the game was 10 points or less. 7 - 7 when mpg is below 26 minutes compared to 5 - 0 when minutes are 26 and above.

how can we be 7-7 when he plays below 26 minutes and 5-0 when he plays 26 minutes or more if we only have 7 or 8 wins total?

After looking it up here is how it breaks down:

In Wins:

26 minutes or more: Memphis, Phoenix(OT)
less then 26 minutes: Clippers, Boston, Milwaukee, Toronto, Utah, Miami

In Losses:

26 minutes or more: cleveland, Indiana
Less then 26 minutes: NY(blowout), denver(blowout), Lakers, Detroit(blowout), Minnesota(blowout), Charlotte, Portland, Sacramento(blowout), Washington, Orlando(blowout)

So thats:

2-2 record when KG plays 26 minutes or more
6-10 record when KG plays less then 26 minutes (6 of those losses blowouts)

so if you remove the blowouts its 2-2 when he plays over 26 minutes and 6-4 when he plays less then 26 minutes. If you want to analyze even further, 8 of those 10 losses came without dwill and/or lopez in the lineup, which is much more likely a cause for us losing those games then how much or how little KG played

I dont see how you can conclude the numbers confirm we are significantly better when he plays more then 26 minutes.

[FirstBallotKG]

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_ ... in-garnett

This is the source of where I got my data from. Where did you get yours from? If you're using a different source than the one I already linked in the thread, it'd help if you shared a link to that.

As to oversights...

Actually, I've overlooked two games [Cleveland Cavs & Indiana Pacers] in which Garnett played that were 26 minutes and above. So, adjusting to the oversight the record is 5 - 2 when Garnett plays 26 minutes or more.

Which isn't perfect, nonetheless 5 - 2 is still not shabby - especially one of them against the defending champs.

For what it's worth, the numbers I posted was after the Boston Celtics game - where KG had played in 19 out of the 21 games possible.

I don't want to make a habit of spending inordinate amount of time rehashing past games, but to clear the record...

Using ESPN as source, before last night's win against the Clippers

*****************************************************************************************************************************

In Wins...

26 minutes or more:
Memphis 97-88; Phoenix 100-98; Miami 101-100; Milwaukee 90-82; Boston 104-96
Under 26 minutes:
Utah 104-88; Toronto 102-100

Summary: 5 wins when KG played 26+ mpg; 2 wins when KG played UNDER 26mpg



In Losses...

26 minutes or more:
Cleveland 94-88; Indiana 91-96
Under 26 minutes:
NY 83-113; Denver87-111; Lakers 94-99; Detroit 97-109; Minnesota 81-111; Charlotte 91-95; ***Portland 98-108; Sacramento 86-107; Washington 108-112; Orlando 86-107

Summary: 2 losses when KG played 26+ mpg; 10 losses when KG played UNDER 26 mpg

*****************************************************************************************************************************

It seems that the 12 point loss constituted as a blowout for you; whereas, I consider a blowouts a 20 point differential the standard. Just to add one to your 'blowout column' you can add the Detroit loss into that.

I'll say that the Portland game is the one that I think captures everything that I find bizarre about the substitution pattern. In that game, KG came out scorching hot making his first several baskets [I think his first 6 were made]. Then like a robot, Kidd took KG out the game to follow the machine-like orders for Garnett to rest. Needless to say, Garnett went from white-hot to ice-cold; and also the Nets lost command of that game and lost by double-digits or 2 points removed from a 'blowout'.

That is when I started realizing that the time-restrictions weren't beneficial to the team. If someone has the hot hand RIDE 'EM! It's like the game last night - against the Clippers - which I didn't include. Andray Blatche caught fire in that quarter and took the Clippers heart out. Garnett didn't return back and I'm GLAD that he didn't. Because the hot hand was Blatche. I'm in favor of letting the hot hand play until they cool off. The minute-restriction shouldn't be so rigid that when Garnett or the team on the floor is doing so well that he forgets that basketball is a rhythm, momentum sport.

[Prokorov]

Actually, I've overlooked two games [Cleveland Cavs & Indiana Pacers] in which Garnett played that were 26 minutes and above. So, adjusting to the oversight the record is 5 - 2 when Garnett plays 26 minutes or more.

Which isn't perfect, nonetheless 5 - 2 is still not shabby - especially one of them against the defending champs.

For what it's worth, the numbers I posted was after the Boston Celtics game - where KG had played in 19 out of the 21 games possible.

I don't want to make a habit of spending inordinate amount of time rehashing past games, but to clear the record...

Using ESPN as source, before last night's win against the Clippers

I dont know what to tell you, other then your facts are wrong....

In Wins...

26 minutes or more:
Memphis 97-88; Phoenix 100-98; Miami 101-100; Milwaukee 90-82; Boston 104-96
Under 26 minutes:
Utah 104-88; Toronto 102-100

Summary: 5 wins when KG played 26+ mpg; 2 wins when KG played UNDER 26mpg

He didnt play 26 minutes or against milwaukee: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/brooklyn-ne ... 013120715/"

He didnt play 26 minutes or against miami: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/miami-heat- ... 2013110117

He didnt play 26 minutes or more against the celtics: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boston-celt ... 013121017/

[JMaine518]

Pierce played yesterday without the glove and said he won't use it unless he feels pain.

It really showed because he was stroking it from 3.

[FirstBallotKG]

http://bit.ly/1cPezgo

I think this is where the confusion resides for you. It's obviously clear that ESPN had the minutes rounded to the nearest whole number - which is a common standard; however, you're dismissing rounding as an acceptable methodology, given your response stating that my facts are wrong.

I assume that if the number I used was 25:31 instead of 26, then my observation would be more accurate to you. Right?

If that is the case, then we're arguing over semantics. More specifically, whether rounding is an acceptable accurate methodology for sports.

[deepblueday]

what an embarrassing, pointless discussion. kevin garnett has been awful this year. let me suggest statistics and, you know, actually watching him play as two superior methodologies for assessing his performance than **** picking an arbitrary minutes played barrier and comparing team record on both sides of it.