How could we fix this season?

[Slava]

The thing with blaming D'Antoni is that these same players looked like world beaters in a fast paced offense, not that they were going anywhere but they did not use time to read and react, they just shot the ball, got their asses back on defense when they missed.

We than added Kobe into the mix, he slows the game down every possession apart from early in the Charlotte game and we suddenly have situations where X, Meeks etc have to face set defenses and read/react. They cannot do that. So either Kobe falls into the script and accepts the offense or else you will have role players in unfamiliar positions.

Also doesn't help that we went from a respectable position to league bottom in turnovers as soon as Kobe returned. He's averaging a turnover for every assist. That's awful even if he's playing with one leg wrapped to his arm. It really doesn't help that these guys now look at Kobe, Pau jogging on transition D and follow suit.

[milesfides]

You're missing the point about d-Antoni and kobe entirely. Kobe's averaging a ton of turnovers because d'antoni is throwing a guy who just came off a catastrophic injury into a Steve Nash role. And unfortunately that us still our best option because nobody else on our team is capable of dribbling up the court against pressure. Have you seen Jodie Meeks do that? It's comedy.

D'antoni's "offense" relies more on a point guard than any other team's offense that I know of. That's not an offensive genius. Kobe needs to play 20 minutes a game max too. Tell me why d'antoni is running kobe into the ground, and the answer is simple - he doesn't know how to coach. There is no system.

And there is nothing world beating about .500 ball.

[milesfides]

Oh and our frontcourt of Shawn Williams and pau gasol is pure tissue. Can't have a power forward in Shawn Williams who rebounds half the rate of an average player, who doesn't block shots, doesn't box out, doesn't draw charges, doesn't exist under the basket. Just can't be competitive with a guy who is so unproductive at a key position.

[Slava]

You're missing the point about d-Antoni and kobe entirely. Kobe's averaging a ton of turnovers because d'antoni is throwing a guy who just came off a catastrophic injury into a Steve Nash role. And unfortunately that us still our best option because nobody else on our team is capable of dribbling up the court against pressure. Have you seen Jodie Meeks do that? It's comedy.

D'antoni's "offense" relies more on a point guard than any other team's offense that I know of. That's not an offensive genius. Kobe needs to play 20 minutes a game max too. Tell me why d'antoni is running kobe into the ground, and the answer is simple - he doesn't know how to coach. There is no system.

And there is nothing world beating about .500 ball.

His role is nothing like Steve Nash's and if it was meant to be, Kobe has changed it completely by converting it into a plodding two man game between him and Pau. I do give him credit for that because Pau looks a different player on offense the past couple games.

Slowing the pace down and increasing turnovers is not good no matter how you look at it and it indicates rust among other limitations like his tendency to make jump passes too frequently, which is a fundamental error even when healthy.

Steve Blake was playing that role to perfection until Kobe returned and we had a winning record up to that point, which combined with a 6th worst schedule in the league so far is pretty commendable for a team of misfits strung together on a shoe string budget. I mean we are still 5th in SOS and 1 game below 0.500, I'd bite your hand off if you offered that to me at the start of the season.

That kind of basketball was likely going to get us to 8th seed at best but it was beautiful to watch those guys play with utmost confidence every game, making improbable comebacks with a strong mentality and team work. The opening night win over the Slippers will likely be one of my favorite Lakers moments of all time.

Lastly I don't think Kobe is doing anything with his minutes that he doesn't want to. Mike is probably putting him in some challenging situations but you know Kobe would check in and out of games whenever he pleases irrespective of Mike's decision.

[Jajwanda]

I have a feeling when Farmar gets back he's going to excel as a starter. Kobe-Pau-Farmar is a tough trio to stop when you've got hustle guys like Hill and Wes Johnson attacking. Once Blake is back that'll fix the bench as he Steve can run the P and R to perfection with that group.

I would take a look at trading Kaman for a guy that fits better in the FC or perhaps trading him for two busts that could perhaps take off here.

[milesfides]

Hey it's great seeing this scrappy team overachieve - that's wonderful. I like to watch our local high school team play too. It's great.

But if you want to talk about making the playoffs, having the chance of competing for something? Not with this roster, and especially not with D'Antoni.

I'm not defending Kobe at all. Don't have to. He's coming off a catastrophic injury, already his minutes are way too high, he tweaked his knee tonight, and he's forced to play point guard. Disagree with any of this? Then you need a reality check, sorry.

Yet all of those things are on D'Antoni. Wasn't he responsible for running Kobe to the ground last year - right before Kobe snapped his achilles? I mean, wasn't Phil Jackson putting a cap on Kobe's minutes THREE YEARS AGO?

The fact that you're whining about Kobe's turnovers and his play while trying to defend D'Antoni is SELF-DEFEATING. Because D'Antoni RELIES and NEEDS Kobe to try to win games TO A FAULT.

Kobe's really hurting us? Well, easy then, keep him off the floor and win games. What's the problem here? Reduce Kobe's minutes, then we should be playing better, shouldn't we, if he's the problem? Isn't that on the coach? Is the Lakers Front Office or Gary Vitti forcing D'Antoni to run Kobe into the ground?

That's all on D'Antoni. Control Kobe's minutes. Find a way to run an offense. These are coaching decisions, and he's failed.

Yes, Steve Blake was playing great ball then he got hurt. Nobody is a bigger fan of Steve Blake than me, sorry. But you are crying over spilled milk. He got hurt, like Farmar did, so then D'Antoni needs to start coaching. What he can't do, is just plug rehabilitating Kobe at point guard after that injury, that's just stupid. And that's exactly what he did. I knew he was going to do it too, because Kobe's the perfect player for an idiot coach - he's willing to do anything, and believes he can do it, even if it destroys his body.

I'm not surprised that Kobe and Pau went back to their 2-man game. First of all, I doubt that was by design from D'Antoni, who gives the best post game interviews in the world, because he's about as surprised as anybody about what is happening on the court. Second of all, what else makes sense? Kobe and Pau won two rings together, they're going to try to go back to some of that. We don't have a point guard, so players should keep trying to play point guard? That makes sense? Or how about coaching? Running some plays - and there are plenty of offensive sets, whether it's pick and rolls or triangle offense, or a motion offense, whatever it is...yes it's halfcourt. BUT WE NEED TO PLAY HALFCOURT.

You're ignoring the painfully obvious point here. We don't have a point guard, but you're bemoaning the fact that we can't play fast and shoot ourselves into games like we did earlier this season. No kidding. We don't have a point guard. We can't play like that - that just leads to turnovers, whether it's Kobe, Meeks, Xavier, Young, whomever. None of those guys can push and create shots right now. None of them. Because they're NOT POINT GUARDS.

Lastly, it's a proven recipe for ultimate failure. This brand of basketball is fun and exciting, but it never wins in the playoffs. In today's game? Nash's Suns, or Lin's Knicks would never win a championship, and on this team, with our roster, we wouldn't even make the playoffs.

There's a really good reason why Greg Pop is such a good coach. He's able to limit his best players' minutes and grow his role players' games. They have a revolving door for all the role players in San Antonio, one of the best farms for talent, because HE'S A GREAT COACH and they have a GREAT SYSTEM.

And nobody's expecting D'Antoni to be a great coach or have a great system. But what he can do is start coaching. Giving everybody the green light to shoot threes and relying on a player to create those shots is not coaching.

[Kilroy]

From what I've seen, Kobe turns the ball over when he puts nothing on his passes... That usually happens when a guy isn't sure he's making the right pass. That might correct itself in time.
When Kobe was dishing double digit assists last season, it was generally as a result of a drive and kick...
He just doesn't have the explosiveness yet to do that...

Long story short, it's a bad role for him to be in right now. But it's what we need right now do to injuries.

I'm just hoping it ends soon.

[milesfides]

None of that is a surprise...come back from a torn achilles and try to play 30 mpg as a point guard under D'Antoni...

kobe didn't just turn into a careless player...

you have to bring the ball up and fight against full court defensive pressure, you have to try to explode past defenders, you have to play athletically, because D'Antoni's offense relies on the point guard to create shots.

When Steve Nash wasn't healthy, he just didn't have a major impact on the game at all. And you're talking about one of the best point guards of all time. He could run (kinda), he could dribble, he could shoot. But he just couldn't control the game as a point guard.

You have to be in fantastic physical shape to be a quality point guard in the NBA. Raymond Felton is a great example of a guy who can go from being pretty good to being terrible based on how many twinkies he eats in the summer. And Deron Williams is another guy who can do a lot of things, but when he's not 100%, he went from being arguably the best 2-3 point guards to being almost negligible. How about Rubio? Still not right. Maybe never will be. Too bad. How about Derrick Rose? Trying to come back from injury, he was supposed to be 100% - but something was wrong, wasn't it?

And D'Antoni put a 35 year old coming off achilles surgery shooting guard to playing D'Antoni point guard for 30 minutes a game.

He should be fired on that alone, because guys like Phil, Pop, Jeff Van Gundy, Rick Carlisle, Doc Rivers, Rick Adelman, Lionel Hollins, would never do something so stupid like that.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Kobe gets hurt again. That guy needs to be eased into his minutes, he needs to play within himself, he needs to be protected from his own sense of invulnerability, he needs to be given a role and build on that.

He's just being thrown out there, and watching him dribble the ball up the court against full court pressure and try to break down defenses and create shots and make shots and go back and play defense for 30 minutes?

Just a shame. Since he's come back, Kobe has lost his footing on more than a couple occasions, especially late in the game. He's being overextended, beyond what his body can handle, and that's when players get hurt. It's just a shame.

[Slava]

I really don't get why you keep putting all the blame on D'Antoni. Chicago Bulls are averaging 94 points per 100 possessions since Rose went down and that's only one player they are missing, do you want to tell Thibodeu to grab a playbook and learn a system?

He ran his starters to the ground in last seasons playoffs in a no hope scenario and people commend his tenacity for doing so.

Celtics were horrible offensive team since 2009 and Jeff Van Gundy regularly depended on offensive assistants to run a functioning offense for him, not to mention both Rivers and JVG benefitted from having Thibideu as a defensive coordinator.

I haven't been a great fan of Mike myself until he started coaching in LA, you want to talk about creating role players, he's basically created Linsanity, resurrected Nash's career after Cuban wouldn't even resign him, made Boris Diaw look like a valid NBA center, designed the foundation of one of the best offensive teams in modern NBA and created an offensive system that even Popovic has since adapted to in San Antonio. If not for a Robert Horry cheap shot he'd have the validity of an NBA championship to go with it.

He ran ssol in 2005 and now Morey is instructing his d-league team to shoot 3s at a record rate and asking his players to avoid past ups and either take a 3 or drive in for a lay up or draw a foul. People are calling it an analytical innovation now for offensive efficiency.

I still remember the train wreck of Mike Brown enough that I'll enjoy Mike while he's here. I mean Jason Kidd, Ty Corbin, Mike Woodson, Dwayne Casey are NBA coaches and we are pointing fingers at D'Antoni.

He's as frank as you get in the coaching business and we could do a lot worse for this team than him.

[moonpie]

^Yikes I knew the RGV Vipers were one of the top D-League teams this year and that they were scoring a lot of points, but taking a closer look at the stats; it seems that Morey is really running with the analytics. On a per game basis, the Vipers are taking over 46(!) 3 point attempts while converting on about 17 of them (about 37%), shooting about 25 free throws per game (at 79%), and averaging a little north of 128 points. This is all in line with the "new era" of advanced statistics where the most efficient shots are 3 pointers, baskets at the rim, and free throws. Interesting stuff.

EDIT: Here's an article just posted today about this, I couldn't find anything other than the mobile version for some reason but it's worth a read:

http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?sto ... 0&top&wjb=

[Slava]

There's also an article on plays drawn out of timeouts someone posted on the general board that had Lakers and Mike D Antoni at #2 in the league in fg%.

I'll try to find it when I'm not on my tablet. The notion that he is a bad coach is a story that needs to be dispensed by now.

[Fresh360Waves]

There's no need for trading for a PG like many Lakers fans are saying. I think we all agree here on the forum that the Lakers don't need to make any moves. If teams are interested in any of the Lakers role players like Swaggy P, Meeks, and Kaman I think it would be smart to deal them and stockpile on some draft picks for the future.

[milesfides]

D'antoni killing Kobe's career. Irresponsible.