Official Thread -- Wizards at Knicks (12/16/13)

[hands11]

Beal & Webster keying a nice run there. It's nice to see a run w/ Wall out of the game.

Webster having a fabulous game and Beal still not playing smart, imo. Beal needs to take lessons from Webster. Webster's making 3's, while Beal is taking long 2's. Webster's getting foul shots, and Beal - per usual - has none.

While I def appreciate his clutch play in the 4th, BB seemed to be doing the defenses'
work for them earlier in the game, deliberating passing on 3 pt shots and stepping inside
the line. I think Buck said at one point he was 4-10, 9 points. Thank gawd he got hot after
that and starting taking and hitting some 3s. And Udrih must be among the slowest PGs
around allowing Beal to get to the rim on the winning shot. Either that or Beal's handles
are better than we've been giving him credit for.

NY is hurting with injuries and PG is one of the place.

That's what a back up PG gets you most nights. They are back ups for a reason. They have incomplete games. They are usually either scorers, defenders or players that can set up the offense. Or some combination but with one as their strength. But rarely if ever are they all three.

Beno is a scorer. So is Nate. Temple is a defender. Maynor is a set up guy who shoots 3 balls.

That's the way it goes with back up PGs.

[GeeWiz]

Webster having a fabulous game and Beal still not playing smart, imo. Beal needs to take lessons from Webster. Webster's making 3's, while Beal is taking long 2's. Webster's getting foul shots, and Beal - per usual - has none.

While I def appreciate his clutch play in the 4th, BB seemed to be doing the defenses'
work for them earlier in the game, deliberating passing on 3 pt shots and stepping inside
the line. I think Buck said at one point he was 4-10, 9 points. Thank gawd he got hot after
that and starting taking and hitting some 3s. And Udrih must be among the slowest PGs
around allowing Beal to get to the rim on the winning shot. Either that or Beal's handles
are better than we've been giving him credit for.

NY is hurting with injuries and PG is one of the place.

That's what a back up PG gets you most nights. They are back ups for a reason. They have incomplete games. They are usually either scorers, defenders or players that can set up the offense. Or some combination but with one as their strength. But rarely if ever are they all three.

Beno is a scorer. So is Nate. Temple is a defender. Maynor is a set up guy who shoots 3 balls.

That's the way it goes with back up PGs.

But... Maynor doesnt set people up. And Beno is no scorer, either.

If pounding the ball until there is 3 seconds on the shotclock, then passing the ball to a teammate for an ill-advised 3, then sure, Maynor sets his teammates up nicely.


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[hands11]

WTF thats bull sht

Stop speaking for the guy.

he said he was happy with the play. He gave Beal the ball. He does what he know is best at. Dishing it out and setting up teammates to score.

I knew somebody would do the same DC sports bash RG3 tactic tonight! I knew it!

Hands, gotta agree with Knighthonor on this one. It seems like you spent the bulk of your earlier post trying to psychoanalyze (or speak for) Wall, especially when you write something like the following:

"Wall has been told from day one, this is his team. I'm pretty sure he feels that mean the ball should be in his hands in crunch time and he should be making the dagger shots. It could be a problem if it doesn't work out like that. I think he would be embarrassed. "

Is this April 1st ?

Wow. What a stretch of a statement I made. Who would connect those dots ?

Are you saying you doubt this as a probable description of the situation ?

Look. This is realgm right ? And we are fans. We speculate on tons of stuff. Only some here live and die by what is, as reported by numbers at any given moment. Well until the numbers change, then its a small sample size. Well until its a larger sample size and there some other excuse.

I was speculating. Right. Other chimed in with a similar feeling like Wall talking about the team stepping up for him. I don't think Wall is the type to not want the team to do well. He does like to pass. And he has said it, great PGs are recognized because their team wins and makes the playoffs. But I also don't think he is mature enough to not take that extra shot when he shouldn't, because he also wants to be the guy stepping up and making buckets, not just handing it off to Beal and running to the other corner while Beal drives for the go ahead bucket. He feels he is more talented then that.

I think to position is grounded in observations of things Wall does. Did you forget about all those clanked jumpers with him going 6-22 just 3 games ago so soon ? A game we lost by 2. On a night Trevor A .. a knock good shooter was only 4-7 in 33 minutes. Just 7 shots. Gortat was 6-10 in 37 minutes. Webster was a little off going 4-12 and 0-3 from 3 but had 7 FTAs and made 7 of them. Someone was drawing fouls.

What the hell was Wall doing jacking that many outside shots. 22 shots and a ton where mid range and 4 where from 3. ZERO free throws. All while Trevor A took only 7 shots. Gortat 10 and Webster 12. This isn't the first time by a long shot that Wall has done this type of thing.

I have my answer but we can save that for later. How do you describe that ?

[hands11]

Its time for Wall to win one of these close games...

I'd love for him to hit a game winner already, but I'd rather he let it come to him instead of trying to force it. If Beal is hot, I would give it to him more often that not at the end.

Buckets don't count less at various times of the game.

Wall hit a huge And1 at the end of the first half. Now it's true he didn't
do much in the second half. If he had, it would have been a monster game...
probably 30/10. Still not a bad stat line other than the TOs. FWIW, I said
some time ago that jumping to pass is not fundamentally sound basketball.
Defenses are beginning to show more ability to take advantage of that.

FWIW, Wall also shot sorta well, 7/16 IIRC. Not great but fair.

Not sure exactly what your point was about saying 2 pts is 2 pts. Of course they are. But at the same time, no way they are.

End of the game points down the stretch with the game on the line come way harder. Playoff points are also harder. That's why players that can get them are celebrated more and paid more. HUGE SHRINKAGE factor kicks in. Point during the game are important for sure, but game deciding clutch point with all the pressure on you are bigger. There is no next time down the court. Those are worth more.

So 2 pts are 2 pts, while accurate on its face, doesn't nearly describe the reality. If it did, 2 pts in the first quarter of game 10 would be the same as MJ icing the final 2 to win a title. Clearly that is not the case.

[hands11]

Thank god Brad "the real deal" Beal AKA the best SG in the East is back. He's much better in the clutch than Wall.

Knicks are idiots, why would you not call TO there.

Melo isn't even in the same universe as Lebron.

"If [Woodson] said it's his fault, then it's his fault. There's no need for me to talk about that or make excuses for it. If he said it was his fault and he takes the blame, then he takes the blame."
--Carmelo Anthony on the un-called final timeout

It was a poor decision by Woodson but MELO was the one who CALLED for the inbound pass. He knew they could not advance the ball with a timeout once he touched it SO HE KNEW he had 6 seconds on the shot clock. What does he do? He walks the ball up like he's walking in mud, takes a terrible shot then blames his coach. What a chump.

Good point out what happened once it was in bound.

Time out. Advance the ball and it could have looked like this.
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... ame-video/

But Melo..

Anthony at first said “we were supposed to call a timeout,” but after being told that Woodson had accepted responsibility for the mixup, Anthony replied: “If he said it’s his fault, it’s his fault. There’s no need for me to talk about that or make excuses for it. He said that was his fault, he’ll take the blame, then he takes the blame.

“As players we got to be smart enough to know as well – time, score and situation. In a situation like that we knew we had timeouts, we knew we had fouls to give at the end of the game. We can’t leave it on the coach to do it.”

[hands11]

So what is the next long losing stretch we need to break. That losing at NY one was good to get off our backs.

[nate33]

So what is the next long losing stretch we need to break. That losing at NY one was good to get off our backs.

We've never won in San Antonio in the Tim Duncan era. And we haven't beaten them here since Arenas was playing. But that's just not realistic. I understand with absolute certainty that it's impossible for this team to beat San Antonio.

The next streak I'd like to break is our record of futility against Detroit. That crappy team has owned us for years. We've lost 7 in a row to them, and 15 of our last 17. It's the most inexplicable streak of domination I can think of.

[Hypnotizer]

We've never won in San Antonio in the Tim Duncan era. And we haven't beaten them here since Arenas was playing. But that's just not realistic. I understand with absolute certainty that it's impossible for this team to beat San Antonio.

The next streak I'd like to break is our record of futility against Detroit. That crappy team has owned us for years. We've lost 7 in a row to them, and 15 of our last 17. It's the most inexplicable streak of domination I can think of.

Your wrong. Next game vs SAS in DC we will win. I'm serious. We have very good starting 5 and now with Maynor sitting in the darkest area of the bench subs look good.
Against DET we play at the end of the month and with healthy Nene it's absolutely must-win.
I'm optimistic.

[nate33]

Your wrong. Next game vs SAS in DC we will win. I'm serious.

No. We won't. It's impossible to beat San Antonio. It will never happen in the Popovich/Duncan era.

You gotta pick the challenges that are reasonable. Beating San Antonio isn't one of them. It can't be done.

[pancakes3]

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[AFM]

It could be done if we play them right before the regular season ends and they're resting their starting 5. Our starting 5 > SAS bench

[Ruzious]

Your wrong. Next game vs SAS in DC we will win. I'm serious.

No. We won't. It's impossible to beat San Antonio. It will never happen in the Popovich/Duncan era.

You gotta pick the challenges that are reasonable. Beating San Antonio isn't one of them. It can't be done.

A few seasons ago, the Bucks swept both the Lakers and Spurs, so on any given daze, anything's possible.

[Hypnotizer]

No. We won't. It's impossible to beat San Antonio. It will never happen in the Popovich/Duncan era.

You gotta pick the challenges that are reasonable. Beating San Antonio isn't one of them. It can't be done.

They are 19-5, not 24-0.
Last ten: 6-4 not 10-0.
SAS veterans are old, we have younger team.
Everything is possible because:

[dobrojim]

I'm with Nate but with just a smidge less pessimism.
We could could beat SAS but the stars would have to align PERFECTLY.

I'm sick of losing to DET when they're not that good.

[nate33]

SAS veterans are old, we have younger team.
Everything is possible because:

It's possible in the same way that getting struck by a meteor is possible. It COULD happen, but it really won't.

We can't beat San Antonio if Duncan and Parker are playing. It's as simple as that. And frankly, I don't think we can beat them in San Antonio even if their Big Three is out. Popovich is playing chess out there and we struggle with tic tac toe.

[Hypnotizer]

Last game:
"The Wizards (2-6) were playing without Trevor Ariza after a right hamstring strain late in the first half, and John Wall did not come back after getting hit in the face when the Spurs' Jeff Ayers followed through on a blocked shot late in the third quarter. Washington got 21 points off the bench from Martell Webster and 19 from Bradley Beal
The Wizards had trailed by as many as 19 in the first half, but with 3 ½ minutes to go in the third quarter they were down by three.
Tim Duncan was coming off rest when he was kept out Monday at Philadelphia, but it didn't help any. He played 25 minutes tonight and went 1-for-12." - Gortat did great job.
Maynor played only 7min50 and had +/- -17.

Time will tell.