David Thorpe On Drummond etc

[Clarity]

He basically plagiarized me (lol) & what I have been screaming on here for the past 18 months.

Get the guy the ball as much as humanly possible, high % buckets, high % buckets, HIGH %%%%% BUCKETS!!

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... sophomores

[MotownMadness]

Had some very good things to say. I hope at the very least we start building a team around Dre in a few years once the Smith era is done. Whether that's sooner or later who knows.

[momed11]

Had some very good things to say. I hope at the very least we start building a team around Dre in a few years once the Smith era is done. Whether that's sooner or later who knows.

The smith era was done before it started, and mostly everyone knew it.

[OneBadMutha]

I'd end the Monroe era before ending the Smith era. I think Monroe is more in Drummonds way than Smith is. At least Smith can play fast as a 4 and can handle the ball away from the basket. Drummond and Smith would be fun in the full court if the Pistons would decide to push the ball. If the Pistons had shooters at the wings with Jennings pushing the ball and Drummond and Smith up front, Drummond's numbers would get better immediately.

[ComboGuardCity]

I'd end the Monroe era before ending the Smith era. I think Monroe is more in Drummonds way than Smith is. At least Smith can play fast as a 4 and can handle the ball away from the basket. Drummond and Smith would be fun in the full court if the Pistons would decide to push the ball. If the Pistons had shooters at the wings with Jennings pushing the ball and Drummond and Smith up front, Drummond's numbers would get better immediately.

Monroe hasn't done anything to slow down Drummond so far. Why will that suddenly change. Drummond has gotten opportunities to post up and its been a mixed bag. Only thing that can stop Drummond is Drummond. You think Shaq or Hakeem wouldn't be the GOATs they are today if they came into the league 2 years after Monroe?

[Clarity]

I'd end the Monroe era before ending the Smith era. I think Monroe is more in Drummonds way than Smith is. At least Smith can play fast as a 4 and can handle the ball away from the basket. Drummond and Smith would be fun in the full court if the Pistons would decide to push the ball. If the Pistons had shooters at the wings with Jennings pushing the ball and Drummond and Smith up front, Drummond's numbers would get better immediately.

this literally couldnt be more inaccurate.

The "Monroe sucks" thing is such a boring, tired narrative that continues to make you guys who exhaust it ad nauseam look like airheads.

[Billl]

Force feeding drummond would be a bad strategy. He's an incredibly efficient player right now because we are just asking him to play to his strengths. Go out and rebound, block shots, finish in the paint. He can do those things at an elite level. If you can get him some more touches where he just has to turn and finish, great! Just don't start forcing him into positions where he is the creator on a regular basis.

[Cowology]

Force feeding drummond would be a bad strategy. He's an incredibly efficient player right now because we are just asking him to play to his strengths. Go out and rebound, block shots, finish in the paint. He can do those things at an elite level. If you can get him some more touches where he just has to turn and finish, great! Just don't start forcing him into positions where he is the creator on a regular basis.

Yes and no. It's true that with more touches his efficiency will go down and his turnovers up, but it's also the best way for him to develop a consistent offensive game.

With the roster we have it will never be a case of giving him the ball every single possession and relying on him entirely. But we can most definitely find an extra 3-4 possessions a game for him. Just not in the 4th quarter.

What I'd really like to see is for us to simply go to him the first few possessions of the game, like we used to try and do with Big Ben. Establish the inside game early, get the big man involved and motivated. It usually results in more energy at the defensive end and sets the tone for the rest of the game. Do the same thing at the beginning of the 2nd half, go inside to Dre 2-3 times in a row, then settle into your regular offense.

[vic]

http://www.82games.com/1314/1314DET2.HTM

TOP SIX 5 man units for the Pistons.
Biggest +/- units in offensive defensive efficiency.

TOP UNIT HAS MONROE/DRUMMOND
Jennings-Caldwell-Pope-Singler-Monroe-Drummond 27.9 1.12 0.91 +14

NEXT UNIT HAS DATOME/DRUMMOND
Siva-Stuckey-Singler-Datome-Drummond 8.7 1.25 0.65 +9

NEXT 2 UNITS HAVE SMITH/MONROE/DRUMMOND
Bynum-Billups-Smith-Monroe-Drummond 49.8 1.03 0.98 +7
Jennings-Stuckey-Smith-Monroe-Drummond 106.2 1.20 1.17 +7

NEXT UNIT HAS SMITH/DRUMMOND
Jennings-Stuckey-Singler-Smith-Drummond 30.9 1.15 0.97 +6

NEXT UNIT HAS SMITH/MONROE
Jennings-Stuckey-Caldwell-Pope-Smith-Monroe 14.3 1.26 1.08 +6

Put in simple terms - this team does best with Monroe and Drummond playing 4 and 5.
Next best is a stretch 4 matched up with Drummond at 5.
Next best is Smith/Monroe/Drummond
Next best is Smith/Drummond
Next best is Smith/Monroe

In even more simple terms,
Smith is ok, but DRUMROE is the present and DRUMROE is the future.

[Cowology]

Maybe it's just me, but I think my frustration with Monroe has to do with his lack of improvement. Yes, he's a solid player. And relatively reliable. But he's also virtually the same player he was 2-3 years ago. After his initial success I think we all expected more out of him by year 4.

[rmfc]

Maybe it's just me, but I think my frustration with Monroe has to do with his lack of improvement. Yes, he's a solid player. And relatively reliable. But he's also virtually the same player he was 2-3 years ago. After his initial success I think we all expected more out of him by year 4.

Yep.

Monroe is basically the same player he was 2 years ago.

Edit: Monroe might have added his "AND 1!!!!!!" (after every FGA) to his repertoire in his 3rd year.

[vic]

Now lets subtract defensive points allowed/posssion from offensive pts/possession to see which units produce the best per possession:


Jennings-Caldwell-Pope-Singler-Monroe-Drummond 27.9 1.12 0.91 +14 ---- .21 more points per possession

Siva-Stuckey-Singler-Datome-Drummond 8.7 1.25 0.65 +9 ---- .60 more points per possession (only 8.7 minutes)

Bynum-Billups-Smith-Monroe-Drummond 49.8 1.03 0.98 +7 -------- .05 more points per possession
Jennings-Stuckey-Smith-Monroe-Drummond 106.2 1.20 1.17 +7 ---- .03 more points per possession

Jennings-Stuckey-Singler-Smith-Drummond 30.9 1.15 0.97 +6 ------ .18 more points per possession

Jennings-Stuckey-Caldwell-Pope-Smith-Monroe 14.3 1.26 1.08 +6 .18 more points per possession


SIMPLY PUT:
Either way you look at it, Monroe/Drummond outperforms Smith/Drummond

Playing 2 of the 3 severely outperforms playing all 3 together.

Playing a stretch 4 with Drummond is the only alternative other than DRUMROE that is worth investigating for more than 8.7 minutes.

[Cowology]

While that is all very interesting to look at, you need to be careful about what conclusions you draw. The "SF" options we have when we play Smith/Drummond or Smith/Monroe up front are not particularly enticing.

IF we actually had a solid 3&D guy, then maybe Smith/Drummond becomes the more productive frontline? It's still very subjective and questionable. While these numbers shed some light on what works best with our current roster, I'd still be weary about drawing definitive conclusions. And I'd even argue we still need a larger sample size, simply to minimize the effects of our earlier season struggles. We'll have a much clearer picture in another 2-3 months.

[vic]

Maybe it's just me, but I think my frustration with Monroe has to do with his lack of improvement. Yes, he's a solid player. And relatively reliable. But he's also virtually the same player he was 2-3 years ago. After his initial success I think we all expected more out of him by year 4.

Not really, he's actually more efficient with less opportunity this year.

His biggest problem is his attitude with the refs. That would improve his defensive focus.
He needs a jumpshot, but other than that, he is what he is.

[ComboGuardCity]

Monroe's post game has vastly improved from his Rookie year. As has his post defense. It's been so steady it's hard to see it.


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[vic]

While that is all very interesting to look at, you need to be careful about what conclusions you draw. The "SF" options we have when we play Smith/Drummond or Smith/Monroe up front are not particularly enticing.

IF we actually had a solid 3&D guy, then maybe Smith/Drummond becomes the more productive frontline? It's still very subjective and questionable. While these numbers shed some light on what works best with our current roster, I'd still be weary about drawing definitive conclusions. And I'd even argue we still need a larger sample size, simply to minimize the effects of our earlier season struggles. We'll have a much clearer picture in another 2-3 months.

More sample size is always a great thing to have. No doubt about that.

But I'd say the best decisions are made by looking at what already exists.

[vic]

While that is all very interesting to look at, you need to be careful about what conclusions you draw. The "SF" options we have when we play Smith/Drummond or Smith/Monroe up front are not particularly enticing.

IF we actually had a solid 3&D guy, then maybe Smith/Drummond becomes the more productive frontline? It's still very subjective and questionable. While these numbers shed some light on what works best with our current roster, I'd still be weary about drawing definitive conclusions. And I'd even argue we still need a larger sample size, simply to minimize the effects of our earlier season struggles. We'll have a much clearer picture in another 2-3 months.

If we had a solid 3&D guy... Maybe Monroe/Drummond gets even more productive?

[Cowology]

While that is all very interesting to look at, you need to be careful about what conclusions you draw. The "SF" options we have when we play Smith/Drummond or Smith/Monroe up front are not particularly enticing.

IF we actually had a solid 3&D guy, then maybe Smith/Drummond becomes the more productive frontline? It's still very subjective and questionable. While these numbers shed some light on what works best with our current roster, I'd still be weary about drawing definitive conclusions. And I'd even argue we still need a larger sample size, simply to minimize the effects of our earlier season struggles. We'll have a much clearer picture in another 2-3 months.

If we had a solid 3&D guy... Maybe Monroe/Drummond gets even more productive?

Possibly. It's what most people wanted prior to the Smith signing, and for good reason.

[Jackattaq]

I'd end the Monroe era before ending the Smith era. I think Monroe is more in Drummonds way than Smith is. At least Smith can play fast as a 4 and can handle the ball away from the basket. Drummond and Smith would be fun in the full court if the Pistons would decide to push the ball. If the Pistons had shooters at the wings with Jennings pushing the ball and Drummond and Smith up front, Drummond's numbers would get better immediately.

this literally couldnt be more inaccurate.

The "Monroe sucks" thing is such a boring, tired narrative that continues to make you guys who exhaust it ad nauseam look like airheads.

DId you miss the Celtics game last night where Monroe was the worst player on the court in the first quarter? He couldn't guard his own shadow (Celtics got 42 points in the first) and he couldn't stop fumbling the ball away or turning it over or NOT boxing out or getting beat on the P%R defense. He's such a Jekyll and Hyde player that the "apologists" can't seem to notice that he's often as bad as they think he is good.

[Cowology]

^I still think Monroe makes a much better C than he does a PF.