Omer Asik Trade - Updated link pg.109

[Captain_Caveman]

Also don't know which deal he is talking about. One for Thaddeus that Philly's owner killed over the balloon payment, or the fallback deal, which is assumed to be Bass/Lee/pick.

[jfs1000d]

If Morey wants to get out of paying Asik's massive money whilst having a shot at contending then he must take Lee back from us.

--------

If Morey wants to get out of Asiks 15 million and wants a pick he's gonna have to take Courtney Lee's 5 million.

That's where you make the wrong turn. Morey is trying to get rid of a disgruntled player that will lose value as time goes on, and what he considers good value back. But he's NOT trying to get out of paying massive money.

If Asik was willing to play backup, Morey would be more than happy to pay Asik for the rest of his contract.

Morey doesn't have an aversion to paying massive money (the owner isn't a penny pincher). The Rockets are not paying luxury tax or anywhere near the tax line, and Asik is only $8.3M against the cap. You could probably even get him to throw in the annual $3M cash that teams are allowed to use(if he could throw in more cash, he probably would have). He would likely even be willing to take back contracts for substantially more money than Asik (he just doesn't want contracts that are longer than Asik).

He doesn't have an aversion to paying massive money. What he has an aversion to is paying long term money that destroys his potential "near-max" free agency plans for the summer of 2015. It's not the size of the contract that makes him balk, but the length of Lee's contract (that final year that cuts into that key off-season).

If he could trade Asik for a contract that had an identical balloon payment, he would. He's not making this move to save money.

I get the 2015. But, you have to weigh that against winning now. What is the point of all this? Are you telling me the rockets are going to add any salary for 2015?

That is wasting 2 years IMO.

The goal is to win, not construct the most value laden and flexible roster. $5 million from lee in a third year to me is not a grave or impossible contract to move. He is a productive player in his prime.


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[jfs1000d]

Sounds like Ainge played hardball.

I don't know. If you play hardball, and don't get the deal, did you really win? No. No one wins when there is no deal.

Owner probably has an inflated view of Asik's value. He has to realize that the value dwindles Avery second this guy is on the team.


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[Havlicek17]

Morey intimating that one of the owners (likely Alexander) killed the trade:

http://rockets.clutchfans.net/5761/more ... igh-level/

So in other words, see you in February!

February?

“It’s pretty likely that Omer is here for quite a long time,” said Morey. “A lot of the dynamics that went into things not working out don’t change, in terms of the contract and things like that. We did feel like we owed it to Omer to give a strong look at it, but nothing ended up materializing.”

If they don't get a deal done soon, then try the trade deadline next year when Asik is an expiring contract...

Until then, the contract only gets worse. Instead of averaging this season's $5 Mil with next year's $15 Mil, it'll be more and more slanted towards $15 Mil until then.

Sure, some lager market team might entertain taking on the $15 Mil bill and $8.3 Mil against the cap, but that contract is increasingly worse the longer you wait, and you will not be gaining leverage by waiting.

[Parliament10]

● I understand the need to include either Bass or Lee, because of their contracts. But why not substitute in Bogans, and make it Bass and Bogans? Or even Brooks?

● As far as giving up a 2014 pick (hahaha!!!), that ain't happening. Morey's got to know that this is as good as it's going to get, and that the Celts have the best deal. A 2015 pick, is good in this deal.

● It ain't gonna get any better. -- Morey better regroup (wake up them owners) and decide what else the Rockets could use (besides a 2014 pick). And do so, before Midnight, Friday.

● Otherwise, they trade Asik down-the-line, and still before the Trade Deadline. They just wouldn't be able to package the players that they get in return (Bass & Lee/Bogans) by the Feb. 20 date. They'll still be able to trade them separately though, at any time.

[Captain_Caveman]

Thing I don't get is that an owner probably going to kill the deal over money, but the Celts deal was relatively cost-neutral. No lux tax considerations on either side. Boston sending out $12m for a guy who makes $5.5m this year (both numbers presumably prorated), which likely offsets most of that balloon payment next season. Houston takes on an extra $4m or so this year, but gets nearly all of that back next year. Unless they are really hating the idea of overpaying Lee by a couple of million in 2015/16, I just don't see the issue.

[KGboss]

Morey intimating that one of the owners (likely Alexander) killed the trade:

http://rockets.clutchfans.net/5761/more ... igh-level/

So in other words, see you in February!

February?

“It’s pretty likely that Omer is here for quite a long time,” said Morey. “A lot of the dynamics that went into things not working out don’t change, in terms of the contract and things like that. We did feel like we owed it to Omer to give a strong look at it, but nothing ended up materializing.”

If they don't get a deal done soon, then try the trade deadline next year when Asik is an expiring contract...

Until then, the contract only gets worse. Instead of averaging this season's $5 Mil with next year's $15 Mil, it'll be more and more slanted towards $15 Mil until then.

Sure, some lager market team might entertain taking on the $15 Mil bill and $8.3 Mil against the cap, but that contract is increasingly worse the longer you wait, and you will not be gaining leverage by waiting.

I didnt say which February. Either way, Morey kindve **** the bed on this one. He wont get a better offer than what he just got when the time comes. Either way, there are still a lot of opportunities out there for the Celtics, and this shows Danny is doing his diligance to have his nose in all of it.

[spaceballer]

● I understand the need to include either Bass or Lee, because of their contracts. But why not substitute in Bogans, and make it Bass and Bogans? Or even Brooks?

● As far as giving up a 2014 pick (hahaha!!!), that ain't happening. Morey's got to know that this is as good as it's going to get, and that the Celts have the best deal. A 2015 pick, is good in this deal.

● It ain't gonna get any better. -- Morey better regroup (wake up them owners) and decide what else the Rockets could use (besides a 2014 pick). And do so, before Midnight, Friday.

● Otherwise, they trade Asik down-the-line, and still before the Trade Deadline. They just wouldn't be able to package the players that they get in return (Bass & Lee/Bogans) by the Feb. 20 date. They'll still be able to trade them separately though, at any time.

From Captain Caveman's link to the interview, Morey already acquiesced to a deal. It's the opposing team's owner that vetoed the deal because they didn't want to pay $15M for Asik next year.

[FlatearthZorro]

I guess it's time to let this go, guys. Asik would've been nice on our team, but it's not like he turns us into contender, that's why I can't be mad at Ainge(not to mention that Morey probably wanted our unprotected pick from this year, which is absolutely hilarious).. Having trade rumors/talks is interesting/exciting and annoying at the same time.

The Rockets are a 2nd round exit at best, if not 1st, depending on where they end up in the standings. They don't win anything by not trading Asik, they actually lose out on this 1, cause I doubt Asik will be very happy to stay in HOU, cause it's basically stalling out his career, and probably even getting in the way of him getting a bigger paycheck afet next season.

[Parliament10]

● I understand the need to include either Bass or Lee, because of their contracts. But why not substitute in Bogans, and make it Bass and Bogans? Or even Brooks?

● As far as giving up a 2014 pick (hahaha!!!), that ain't happening. Morey's got to know that this is as good as it's going to get, and that the Celts have the best deal. A 2015 pick, is good in this deal.

● It ain't gonna get any better. -- Morey better regroup (wake up them owners) and decide what else the Rockets could use (besides a 2014 pick). And do so, before Midnight, Friday.

● Otherwise, they trade Asik down-the-line, and still before the Trade Deadline. They just wouldn't be able to package the players that they get in return (Bass & Lee/Bogans) by the Feb. 20 date. They'll still be able to trade them separately though, at any time.

From Captain Caveman's link to the interview, Morey already acquiesced to a deal. It's the opposing team's owner that vetoed the deal because they didn't want to pay $15M for Asik next year.

IDK where you got that from spaceballer? The Celts gave the Rockets that deal, about a week ago.

http://nesn.com/2013/12/report-celtics- ... k-in-days/

Bulpett called the Celtics “spectators” in the Asik sweepstakes and clarified that the reported offer was made by the Celtics last week, when Rockets general manager Daryl Morey turned it down.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics

Hey, it happens. The Rockets set a Thursday deadline for their Asik auction and hoped to create a bidding war for a proven defensive-minded center. One never materialized, and sources told ESPN.com that Boston's offer of Brandon Bass, Courtney Lee and a future first-round pick was the best offer on the table, but not enough to convince Houston to make a deal.

[soxfan2003]

Given his contract. Asik just isn't that much of an asset heading into next year. Sure he is a good player at the most important position but whatever team has him has to pay 15 million next year. The fact that the cap figure is less is nice but its still money that an owner has to give him.

If the Rockets really don't like Bass/Lee/protected first much or the other offers.... A good compromise may be a buyout at the end of the year where Asik is paid around $3-5 million if Asik behaves the rest of the year and still wants out. He is then free to sign something like a 4 year 10 million+ year contract.

Are you suggesting Asik will give up $10-12 million for next year??

I'm not suggesting Asik give up a dime... I would think if he is bought out for 3-5 million, he could sign as a FA for 10-12 million a year for 4 years starting next year. What I am suggesting is Asik has to meet Houston in the middle and he is delusional if he thinks the Rockets would consider giving him a very large buyout when he could then just double dip and basically be paid twice next season.

Now maybe Asik would rather gamble that he isn't hurt and enter FA after next year but under my scenario a team like the Celtics if they had cap room could sign him after this year.

[spaceballer]

● I understand the need to include either Bass or Lee, because of their contracts. But why not substitute in Bogans, and make it Bass and Bogans? Or even Brooks?

● As far as giving up a 2014 pick (hahaha!!!), that ain't happening. Morey's got to know that this is as good as it's going to get, and that the Celts have the best deal. A 2015 pick, is good in this deal.

● It ain't gonna get any better. -- Morey better regroup (wake up them owners) and decide what else the Rockets could use (besides a 2014 pick). And do so, before Midnight, Friday.

● Otherwise, they trade Asik down-the-line, and still before the Trade Deadline. They just wouldn't be able to package the players that they get in return (Bass & Lee/Bogans) by the Feb. 20 date. They'll still be able to trade them separately though, at any time.

From Captain Caveman's link to the interview, Morey already acquiesced to a deal. It's the opposing team's owner that vetoed the deal because they didn't want to pay $15M for Asik next year.

IDK where you got that from spaceballer? The Celts gave the Rockets that deal, about a week ago.

http://nesn.com/2013/12/report-celtics- ... k-in-days/

Bulpett called the Celtics “spectators” in the Asik sweepstakes and clarified that the reported offer was made by the Celtics last week, when Rockets general manager Daryl Morey turned it down.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics

Hey, it happens. The Rockets set a Thursday deadline for their Asik auction and hoped to create a bidding war for a proven defensive-minded center. One never materialized, and sources told ESPN.com that Boston's offer of Brandon Bass, Courtney Lee and a future first-round pick was the best offer on the table, but not enough to convince Houston to make a deal.

From Caveman's link

“We were definitely trying to move (Asik),” said Morey. “It was trending towards something happening, but sometimes when you get to those last approvals and the owner, I think as Houston fans know from past deals that didn’t come off that looked like they were done, they don’t happen.”

The owner approval was where the trade hit a snag. GM's only go to owners for trade approval if it's a trade they're willing to make. Not sure if this is the Celtics trade or another team's, but sounds like Morey did acquiesce to a trade before it got vetoed.

[sully00]

Given his contract. Asik just isn't that much of an asset heading into next year. Sure he is a good player at the most important position but whatever team has him has to pay 15 million next year. The fact that the cap figure is less is nice but its still money that an owner has to give him.

If the Rockets really don't like Bass/Lee/protected first much or the other offers.... A good compromise may be a buyout at the end of the year where Asik is paid around $3-5 million if Asik behaves the rest of the year and still wants out. He is then free to sign something like a 4 year 10 million+ year contract.

Are you suggesting Asik will give up $10-12 million for next year??

I'm not suggesting Asik give up a dime... I would think if he is bought out for 3-5 million, he could sign as a FA for 10-12 million a year for 4 years starting next year. What I am suggesting is Asik has to meet Houston in the middle and he is delusional if he thinks the Rockets would consider giving him a very large buyout when he could then just double dip and basically be paid twice next season.

Now maybe Asik would rather gamble that he isn't hurt and enter FA after next year but under my scenario a team like the Celtics if they had cap room could sign him after this year.

He is already hurt that is the whole point of this the Rockets are screwing with his career. He isn't going to get 10-12 mil as a free agent right now that kind of money isn't out there. His game is in the tank he has been labled a malcontent. Asik has to stay Turkish and die he doesn't have to do a damn thing, this is Morey's problem and one that seems to go beyond basketball operations.

[Captain_Caveman]

From Captain Caveman's link to the interview, Morey already acquiesced to a deal. It's the opposing team's owner that vetoed the deal because they didn't want to pay $15M for Asik next year.

IDK where you got that from spaceballer? The Celts gave the Rockets that deal, about a week ago.

http://nesn.com/2013/12/report-celtics- ... k-in-days/

Bulpett called the Celtics “spectators” in the Asik sweepstakes and clarified that the reported offer was made by the Celtics last week, when Rockets general manager Daryl Morey turned it down.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics

Hey, it happens. The Rockets set a Thursday deadline for their Asik auction and hoped to create a bidding war for a proven defensive-minded center. One never materialized, and sources told ESPN.com that Boston's offer of Brandon Bass, Courtney Lee and a future first-round pick was the best offer on the table, but not enough to convince Houston to make a deal.

From Caveman's link

“We were definitely trying to move (Asik),” said Morey. “It was trending towards something happening, but sometimes when you get to those last approvals and the owner, I think as Houston fans know from past deals that didn’t come off that looked like they were done, they don’t happen.”

The owner approval was where the trade hit a snag. GM's only go to owners for trade approval if it's a trade they're willing to make. Not sure if this is the Celtics trade or another team's, but sounds like Morey did acquiesce to a trade before it got vetoed.

It was kinda cryptic. But the actual quote in the interview was more like..

“We were definitely trying to move him, but it takes two to tango. It was trending towards something happening, but sometimes when you get to those last approvals and the owner, I think as Houston fans know from past deals that didn’t come off that looked like they were done, they don’t happen.”

Totally brutal if Morey went through that whole dog and pony show thinking that he had a fallback deal from Ainge that Wyc then killed.

I mean, seriously, right? LMAO

[Parliament10]

IDK where you got that from spaceballer? The Celts gave the Rockets that deal, about a week ago.

http://nesn.com/2013/12/report-celtics- ... k-in-days/


http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics

From Caveman's link

“We were definitely trying to move (Asik),” said Morey. “It was trending towards something happening, but sometimes when you get to those last approvals and the owner, I think as Houston fans know from past deals that didn’t come off that looked like they were done, they don’t happen.”

The owner approval was where the trade hit a snag. GM's only go to owners for trade approval if it's a trade they're willing to make. Not sure if this is the Celtics trade or another team's, but sounds like Morey did acquiesce to a trade before it got vetoed.

It was kinda cryptic. But the actual quote in the interview was more like..

“We were definitely trying to move him, but it takes two to tango. It was trending towards something happening, but sometimes when you get to those last approvals and the owner, I think as Houston fans know from past deals that didn’t come off that looked like they were done, they don’t happen.”

Totally brutal if Morey went through that whole dog and pony show thinking that he had a fallback deal from Ainge that Wyc then killed.

I mean, seriously, right? LMAO

Right. He's talking about the Rockets' owner. Like you said Caveman.:

Morey intimating that one of the owners (likely Alexander) killed the trade

If the Rockets are that loopy, then they need new ownership and management.
GROW SOME!!!

[jfs1000d]

IDK where you got that from spaceballer? The Celts gave the Rockets that deal, about a week ago.

http://nesn.com/2013/12/report-celtics- ... k-in-days/


http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics

From Caveman's link

“We were definitely trying to move (Asik),” said Morey. “It was trending towards something happening, but sometimes when you get to those last approvals and the owner, I think as Houston fans know from past deals that didn’t come off that looked like they were done, they don’t happen.”

The owner approval was where the trade hit a snag. GM's only go to owners for trade approval if it's a trade they're willing to make. Not sure if this is the Celtics trade or another team's, but sounds like Morey did acquiesce to a trade before it got vetoed.

It was kinda cryptic. But the actual quote in the interview was more like..

“We were definitely trying to move him, but it takes two to tango. It was trending towards something happening, but sometimes when you get to those last approvals and the owner, I think as Houston fans know from past deals that didn’t come off that looked like they were done, they don’t happen.”

Totally brutal if Morey went through that whole dog and pony show thinking that he had a fallback deal from Ainge that Wyc then killed.

I mean, seriously, right? LMAO

I don't think wyc would nix a deal for salary. I think ainge knows what his job is and before they even went down the trade path, wyc would know about the outlay.

That said, people here overrate the cap, and underrate actual dollars. We are all fine with Asik because his cap hit is only $8.5. But, he gets $15 million next year. That is a lot for an owner to digest. I think wyc would do it, owners of franchises that don't have a lot of revenue would balk.

Only trade available is with boston.


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[sully00]

Thing I don't get is that an owner probably going to kill the deal over money, but the Celts deal was relatively cost-neutral. No lux tax considerations on either side. Boston sending out $12m for a guy who makes $5.5m this year (both numbers presumably prorated), which likely offsets most of that balloon payment next season. Houston takes on an extra $4m or so this year, but gets nearly all of that back next year. Unless they are really hating the idea of overpaying Lee by a couple of million in 2015/16, I just don't see the issue.

No HOU would have been taking on 29.7 in cap costs and sending out 16.7 mil in cap costs. But that is what they are getting the draft pick for. That is the new NBA.

This whole thing makes a lot more sense if what Morey is trying to do is put a sharp point on the facts for his old school owner. If he is in essence acting like an ass on purpose. The only two guys who are even talking to him are his former Boss and former protege. Ainge will take the player and the payment but your dealing with his problem if you want a draft pick. I think Hinkie is playing along to get a sense of the market for his 3 players he would like to deal and he can take on some salary if someone wants to compensate him with a draft pick but he isn't giving up any picks.

But this isn't a market that is going to get better over time.

[15th overall]

Wyc has repeatedly gone out of his way to say that ownership will foot the bill if it would help the team. I find it pretty hard to even suspect that Wyc & co. were the ones that broke this thing off.

[soxfan2003]

Are you suggesting Asik will give up $10-12 million for next year??

I'm not suggesting Asik give up a dime... I would think if he is bought out for 3-5 million, he could sign as a FA for 10-12 million a year for 4 years starting next year. What I am suggesting is Asik has to meet Houston in the middle and he is delusional if he thinks the Rockets would consider giving him a very large buyout when he could then just double dip and basically be paid twice next season.

Now maybe Asik would rather gamble that he isn't hurt and enter FA after next year but under my scenario a team like the Celtics if they had cap room could sign him after this year.

He is already hurt that is the whole point of this the Rockets are screwing with his career. He isn't going to get 10-12 mil as a free agent right now that kind of money isn't out there. His game is in the tank he has been labled a malcontent. Asik has to stay Turkish and die he doesn't have to do a damn thing, this is Morey's problem and one that seems to go beyond basketball operations.

I certainly think 10-12 million is out there for Asik after this season if he is healthy.... After all, several team including the Lakers/Celtics etc. inquired about him. He outperformed his average annual salary last year and was doing well this year when he wasn't on the court with Howard.

Basically, if the season ended today unless Asik is damaged goods, I flat out think some team would offer him 4 years 40 million. In fact, I suspect more then one team would. Asik would be choosing among 2-3+ teams IMHO at that salary number. Teams can see the stats that he is performing well when he isn't on the court with Howard. It's not really a surprise to anyone other then perhaps Houston that the Howard/Asik pairing didn't work but Asik has played fine without Howard.

I could be wrong but I wouldn't even be surprised if Boston freed up room if necessary to be one of those teams that would be willing to sign Asik for 4 years 40+ million if he was a free agent after this season.

If Asik starts playing bad a center without Howard on the court then I think his value substantially dips but in a way not playing is almost as advantageous as playing since he is after all lowering his chances of an injury.

I would agree with you that 2 straight years of not playing much would hurt his value but I just don't think 1 season does considering the circumstances.

Asik being a malcontent does hurt him a bit under any contract scenario but thats on him.

[SuperDeluxe]

Wyc has repeatedly gone out of his way to say that ownership will foot the bill if it would help the team. I find it pretty hard to even suspect that Wyc & co. were the ones that broke this thing off.

It's virtually impossible for Wyc to have broken this thing off. Asik's poison-pill contract is known by everyone in the league -- Wyc would've stopped the negotiations before they even began.