OT: Andrew Wiggins Discussion Thread

Throwback24 · Post #1501 » by **Throwback24** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:54 pm

I would hate to see Wiggins come here. He needs to land in the perfect system with the right vets to help him develop.

I don't think he'd ever live up to the billing here given the whole Canadian angle. The talent's there but he lack so much polish. I could see why teams would consider drafting him at 1 because of the potential angle, but he looks so meeeh in large part because of his effort issues.

Wiggins has more red-flags than Drummond ever had.

Ragnar0k · Post #1502 » by **Ragnar0k** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:54 pm

The_Hater wrote:
Ragnar0k wrote:
TheLastTimeLord wrote:Big three from Wiggins. 2/6 so far tonight, has "played his tail off" defensively says the PBP guy. I missed the first half.

I wouldn't say he played his tail off. Haven't seen a lot of effort.

If I had to list is major issues #1 would be a lack of effort/aggression (although that might be 2 different issues), #2 would be his poor handle. He can definitely guard people though.

Yup, I agree - and of the two things to not be great at - handles would be the one thing, just because you can improve on that. It's hard to have someone really "improve" on defense though, it's one of those things that is either always going to be there, or isn't.

So as lazy/out of it/unconcerned as Andrew may be on offense for now, at least we know he's putting in the work defensively, that he takes it personally.

Post #1503 » by **Undefeated** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:57 pm

The_Hater wrote:If I had to list is major issues #1 would be a lack of effort/aggression (although that might be 2 different issues), #2 would be his poor handle. He can definitely guard people though.

His handles are fine, it's just that he doesn't get low enough on his dribble when he drives or when he "shows" ball trying to shake his defender so he loses control of the ball. Ball security is what he needs to work on. Otherwise he's pretty efficient at beating his defender with a change of direction move not wasting his dribble (good reaction) and he's shown he can split ball screens.

Waylon Mercy · Post #1504 » by **Waylon Mercy** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:58 pm

Never been a fan of Wiggins but rooting for the kid I think his ceiling is above average wing player in
the NBA at best.

Throwback24 · Post #1505 » by **Throwback24** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:59 pm

Undefeated wrote:
The_Hater wrote:If I had to list is major issues #1 would be a lack of effort/aggression (although that might be 2 different issues), #2 would be his poor handle. He can definitely guard people though.

His handles are fine, it's just that he doesn't get low enough on his dribble when he drives or when he "shows" ball trying to shake his defender so he loses control of the ball. Ball security is what he needs to work on. Otherwise he's pretty efficient at beating his defender with a change of direction move not wasting his dribble (good reaction) and he's shown he can split ball screens.

I just noticed that as well. On the last possession before the foul you saw the difference between Wiggins handling the ball and the other guard he passed it too. He keeps the ball quite which makes it easier for defenders to stick with him on dribble drives.

Mr.Raptorsingh · Post #1506 » by **Mr.Raptorsingh** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:00 pm

Throwback24 wrote:I would hate to see Wiggins come here. He needs to land in the perfect system with the right vets to help him develop.

I don't think he'd ever live up to the billing here given the whole Canadian angle. The talent's there but he lack so much polish. I could see why teams would consider drafting him at 1 because of the potential angle, but he looks so meeeh in large part because of his effort issues.

Wiggins has more red-flags than Drummond ever had.

I'm of the opinion that maybe Wiggins would be better off in another city, or team. But, that's not to say I wouldn't be absolutely thrilled if we got him, 'cause I would be ecstatic to land a player of his potential. But, just the whole expectations and pressure he's going to experience here might be a bit much for any kid.

fredericklove · Post #1507 » by **fredericklove** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:01 pm

Feed him lots of PnR then you'll see him engaging, he's not engaging because he's asked to play within the system that highly prioritizes post offense. Shooters fit the system more than slashers do.

Sent from my Nexus S using RealGM Forums mobile app

Post #1508 » by **Undefeated** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:01 pm

Wow nasty putback by Embiid

Mr.Raptorsingh · Post #1509 » by **Mr.Raptorsingh** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:01 pm

EMBIID!!!

Ragnar0k · Post #1510 » by **Ragnar0k** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:01 pm

Wow. Embiid, that was an insane tip slam on the O board.

TheGoodDoctor · Post #1511 » by **TheGoodDoctor** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:01 pm

Yeah Embiid is going to surpass Wiggins in the draft; quite easily.

Inevitable · Post #1512 » by **Inevitable** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:02 pm

That was ridiculous

Homer Jay · Post #1513 » by **Homer Jay** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:02 pm

Undefeated wrote:
Homer Jay wrote:I just have maybe a bit higher of a standard of what I define explosive. VC, Kobe, LBJ, Jordan....

LeBron James doesn't have an explosive first step and he said that it's his second step that allows him to create separation from his defender when he drives. Wiggins can already beat his defender ridiculously easy when he drives upright which says a lot about his first step explosion and his second jump is much better than any of those guys. What Wiggins doesn't have is the body control of VC, Kobe and LeBron because he always takes a hop and jumps off two which confines or restricts his athleticism a bit not making him creative in the air.

Yes I think that nails it. The body control isn't there. It's one of those things that is probably mental as well as physical. I don't know if it can be taught at all. You either seem to have it or you don't. You don't necessarily have to be an excellent athelete to have body control when you leave your feet. I would say Bird or Durant have it as well, while lacking the physical gifts of the other guys. A connection between their brains and bodies that allows them to do what they want regardless of how they are orientated.

BC_IS_A_PLAYA · Post #1514 » by **BC_IS_A_PLAYA** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:03 pm

Trade Jonas, tank for Embiid

The_Hater · Post #1515 » by **The_Hater** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:04 pm

Undefeated wrote:
The_Hater wrote:If I had to list is major issues #1 would be a lack of effort/aggression (although that might be 2 different issues), #2 would be his poor handle. He can definitely guard people though.

His handles are fine, it's just that he doesn't get low enough on his dribble when he drives or when he "shows" ball trying to shake his defender so he loses control of the ball. Ball security is what he needs to work on. Otherwise he's pretty efficient at beating his defender with a change of direction move not wasting his dribble (good reaction) and he's shown he can split ball screens.

Isn't what you just described part of having a good handle?

To counter you claim, he's more of a straight line driver when he sees a seem in the defense. He doesn't change speed or direction particularly well and he doesn't have much of a pull up jumper. All of those problems would improve with a much better, tighter handle.

I guess the point is if he's going to be an elite wing scorer he needs a much better handle than he currently exhibits. Without it he's more role player than superstar on offense.

Ragnar0k · Post #1516 » by **Ragnar0k** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:04 pm

TheGoodDoctor wrote:Yeah Embiid is going to surpass Wiggins in the draft; quite easily.

Maybe, I think it's still a bit early to make a definitive statement like that.

A lot of things depend on their individual psychological makeup. It all depends on how badly they want to get better. they both have the physical tools and the potential - who wants it more?

CanadaB-Ball · Post #1517 » by **CanadaB-Ball** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:05 pm

fredericklove wrote:
CanadaB-Ball wrote:
fredericklove wrote:
Why not just watch him play buddy, he's got much improved handle that he can use to face up iso (e.g. against OKC) and has been using his post game to exploit matchup.

Sent from my Nexus S using RealGM Forums mobile app

I've watched him play since high-school. I was extremely pro-Barnes when he was coming out of high-school, and was even a proponent of the 'tank for Barnes' movement after he struggled his freshman season.

The fact of the matter is, is that he just hasn't been that good. That's just the way it is. Is there a chance he becomes a good NBA player? Of course there is, but he certainly isn't there yet, and I definitely wouldn't trade Jonas for him.

The way you brought up in your post sounded like you stopped watching since UNC because you keep highlighting his UNC struggles, right now in the nba he's actually showing a really more maturity and refinement in his game compared to b4, I'm not just saying but I've watched him in GSW and the way they use him.

Sent from my Nexus S using RealGM Forums mobile app

I've watched him play in Golden State. He's improved his handle, yes, but he's still not overly productive. Average efficiency (53.3 TS%) on low-usage, an 11.7 PER, 0.083 WS/48, 103 ORtg, 105 DRtg and a -14.8 (!) NET +/- don't exactly scream future all-star.

He's still young, and he's a solid defender (which he has been dating back to his time at UNC), but I think you need to temper expectations. He's not even playing at the level (offensively) that DeMar was as a rookie/second-year pro.

Mr.Raptorsingh · Post #1518 » by **Mr.Raptorsingh** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:05 pm

Embiid should be contention for that number 1 overall pick. 2-way ability showcased today vs. Georgetown. Tremendous prospect.

BC_IS_A_PLAYA · Post #1519 » by **BC_IS_A_PLAYA** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:07 pm

Embiid > Jonas

Nice bucket, huge statline

Mr.Raptorsingh · Post #1520 » by **Mr.Raptorsingh** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:07 pm

Embiid again with the AND1