OT: Andrew Wiggins Discussion Thread

fredericklove · Post #1521 » by **fredericklove** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:07 pm

Embiid is unbelievable

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Waylon Mercy · Post #1522 » by **Waylon Mercy** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:07 pm

Embiid is a beast

MikeM · Post #1523 » by **MikeM** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:09 pm

Mr.Raptorsingh wrote:Embiid should be contention for that number 1 overall pick. 2-way ability showcased today vs. Georgetown. Tremendous prospect.

Would bet my life Embiid will go #1 overall.

fredericklove · Post #1524 » by **fredericklove** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:09 pm

Air up there style dunk from Selden

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Marvin Martian · Post #1525 » by **Marvin Martian** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:11 pm

Wiggins has been a disappointment. His production is too low for a prospect of his caliber. In fact his production is similar to Bradley Beal's freshman year and he was selected third in what considered a one man draft class.

Post #1526 » by **Undefeated** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:11 pm

The_Hater wrote:Isn't what you just described part of having a good handle?

To counter you claim, he's more of a straight line driver when he sees a seem in the defense. He doesn't change speed or direction particularly well and he doesn't have much of a pull up jumper. All of those problems would improve with a much better, tighter handle.

Yes and no, I wouldn't classify ball security as having handles because some players don't have combo moves yet they are great at keeping their dribble low and protecting the ball with their body. Combo moves requires you to "show" ball in order to lure the defender to bite for the steal then you shake them on the sell.

He's not great at going one-on-one with an "active dribble", but when he has a "live dribble" he does a great job of reading and reacting to his defender setting them up and changing directions. Same thing with reads on the ball screens. Those straight line drives are usually when he doesn't set up his defender with non-dribble moves.

The_Hater · Post #1527 » by **The_Hater** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:13 pm

TheGoodDoctor wrote:Yeah Embiid is going to surpass Wiggins in the draft; quite easily.

I've got Parker and Embiid well above Wiggins and Randle on my board. I still want to see more of Smart and haven't seen anything except clips of Exum.

Long season though, things could still change.

Post #1528 » by **Undefeated** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:14 pm

Where is that guy that said Wiggins was 10x better than Jabari lol? I don't think he's been watching any games.

S.W.A.N · Post #1529 » by **S.W.A.N** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:15 pm

MikeM wrote:
Mr.Raptorsingh wrote:Embiid should be contention for that number 1 overall pick. 2-way ability showcased today vs. Georgetown. Tremendous prospect.

Would bet my life Embiid will go #1 overall.

you better hope Utah doesn't get first pick

Mr.Raptorsingh · Post #1530 » by **Mr.Raptorsingh** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:16 pm

The_Hater wrote:
TheGoodDoctor wrote:Yeah Embiid is going to surpass Wiggins in the draft; quite easily.

I've got Parker and Embiid well above Wiggins and Randle on my board. I still want to see more of Smart and haven't seen anything except clips of Exum.

Long season though, things could still change.

It depends on how Smart measures out height-wise, but if he's 6'4'' or so, I think he can play SG in the NBA, sort of as a 2/1. I like him more as a SG myself.

TheLastTimeLord · Post #1531 » by **TheLastTimeLord** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:17 pm

Marvin Martian wrote:Wiggins has been a disappointment. His production is too low for a prospect of his caliber. In fact his production is similar to Bradley Beal's freshman year and he was selected third in what considered a one man draft class.

Maybe to people who expected him to put up 25 ppg, but he's been right on the money as far as I'm concerned. Certainly could be better, no doubt. He's had some big offensive games (3 or 4 games of 20+). But he's in the wrong system if he expected to put up huge numbers.

Kansas is simply a deep team with many options, they don't go to AW every play nor should they.

By the end of the year he'll be a 17-19 ppg player, 6-8 rpg, with the best defensive game of the top prospects. That's a huge plus to have. Not to mention the potential.

The_Hater · Post #1532 » by **The_Hater** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:17 pm

Marvin Martian wrote:Wiggins has been a disappointment. His production is too low for a prospect of his caliber. In fact his production is similar to Bradley Beal's freshman year and he was selected third in what considered a one man draft class.

Low production is fine, that could be a product of his team/system and how he's deployed. The problem is that some of his deficiencies still stick out like a sore thumb.

I wish this wasn't true, I've been following Wiggins since he was 14 and I really want him to become a hall-of-fame level player. It bothers me that I think Parker looks like a much better prospect.

TheGoodDoctor · Post #1533 » by **TheGoodDoctor** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:19 pm

Ragnar0k wrote:
TheGoodDoctor wrote:Yeah Embiid is going to surpass Wiggins in the draft; quite easily.

Maybe, I think it's still a bit early to make a definitive statement like that.

A lot of things depend on their individual psychological makeup. It all depends on how badly they want to get better. they both have the physical tools and the potential - who wants it more?

Right now Embiid easily shows he does.

Joel seems like he's figuring out the game and just getting comfortable asserting himself but he's willing to do so and increasing in confidence with every game.

Wiggins on the otherhand has been criticized for being complacent and unassertive since highschool and he continues that trend. He's really going to need a coaching staff and teammates to help push him further (as it stands now) because right now with Self already giving him leeway publicly he seems more than content to blend in unless directly challenged. Embiid is just stepping up more and more every game...

I'm fairly confident betting Embiid surpasses Andrew as much as I don't want that to be true.

S.W.A.N · Post #1534 » by **S.W.A.N** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:19 pm

The_Hater wrote:
TheGoodDoctor wrote:Yeah Embiid is going to surpass Wiggins in the draft; quite easily.

I've got Parker and Embiid well above Wiggins and Randle on my board. I still want to see more of Smart and haven't seen anything except clips of Exum.

Long season though, things could still change.

your thought on Noah Vonleh ? and Ennis...

I starting to focus more on the guys that fall in the 5-10 range as that seems like realistic scenario this season

KingTdot · Post #1535 » by **KingTdot** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:19 pm

Embiid isn't a franchise player, he will be used like how JV is. If he goes number 1 overall, that team will not go far if they make him the focal point of the offence.

The_Hater · Post #1536 » by **The_Hater** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:20 pm

Mr.Raptorsingh wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
TheGoodDoctor wrote:Yeah Embiid is going to surpass Wiggins in the draft; quite easily.

I've got Parker and Embiid well above Wiggins and Randle on my board. I still want to see more of Smart and haven't seen anything except clips of Exum.

Long season though, things could still change.

It depends on how Smart measures out height-wise, but if he's 6'4'' or so, I think he can play SG in the NBA, sort of as a 2/1. I like him more as a SG myself.

I agree. I don't view Smart as a PG at all, he just doesn't have that mindset. Even if he's only 6'3" he's so athletic, so strong and plays so hard that I don't see SG being a problem. He appears to have a long reach as well.

Homer Jay · Post #1537 » by **Homer Jay** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:21 pm

Yeah hard to dispute Embiid going first overall, unless Parker has some kind of mega dominating performance in the tourney. Right now I think (if the situation is all eligible players declare) that the top three would be:
Embiid-Paker-Lavine. But that's conditional on Lavine keeping up those great efficiency numbers. I would still have Wiggins fourth unless the struggles continue. Randle, and an improving Gordon, might be knocking on that door then. It's disappointing but maybe he will improve over the season and have a great tournament.

Ragnar0k · Post #1538 » by **Ragnar0k** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:21 pm

The_Hater wrote:
Marvin Martian wrote:Wiggins has been a disappointment. His production is too low for a prospect of his caliber. In fact his production is similar to Bradley Beal's freshman year and he was selected third in what considered a one man draft class.

Low production is fine, that could be a product of his team/system and how he's deployed. The problem is that some of his deficiencies still stick out like a sore thumb.

I wish this wasn't true, I've been following Wiggins since he was 14 and I really want him to become a hall-of-fame level player. It bothers me that I think Parker looks like a much better prospect.

Depends on what you mean by "much better prospect" - Wiggins still has a much higher ceiling, but Parker is currently more polished offensively and in leadership/taking charge.

This is what's fun about seeing how players mature.

Ragnar0k · Post #1539 » by **Ragnar0k** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:22 pm

KingTdot wrote:Embiid isn't a franchise player, he will be used like how JV is. If he goes number 1 overall, that team will not go far if they make him the focal point of the offence.

Way too early to say that.

TheGoodDoctor · Post #1540 » by **TheGoodDoctor** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:24 pm

S.W.A.N wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
TheGoodDoctor wrote:Yeah Embiid is going to surpass Wiggins in the draft; quite easily.

I've got Parker and Embiid well above Wiggins and Randle on my board. I still want to see more of Smart and haven't seen anything except clips of Exum.

Long season though, things could still change.

your thought on Noah Vonleh ? and Ennis...

I starting to focus more on the guys that fall in the 5-10 range as that seems like realistic scenario this season

If we're 5-10 give me Zach Lavine or Marcus Smart.