ESPN: Bulls "determined" to NOT trade Deng

[transplant]

Any trade offer for Deng is viewed through this lens which means that the assets offered for Deng have to make the Bulls better over the next 3-5 years.

You mean like a home run?

Bulls front office in one .gif:

You pretty much need to be looking for that pitch to hit it hard.

As for Deng, I believe that he's a top-30 player in his prime. That's some pretty serious value.

[Red Larrivee]

You pretty much need to be looking for that pitch to hit it hard.

They don't look, they wait for the perfect alignment. If you're $5-6M apart in negotiations with an impending free agency, keeping him on the roster in hopes of re-signing him is really, really perplexing.

[bullsnewdynasty]

If they don't trade him, Deng will leave for nothing at the end of the season. GarPax will spin some BS about flexibility something something something, rise and repeat.

[transplant]

You pretty much need to be looking for that pitch to hit it hard.

They don't look, they wait for the perfect alignment. If you're $5-6M apart in negotiations with an impending free agency, keeping him on the roster in hopes of re-signing him is really, really perplexing.

IMO, you're putting too much on the $5-6mil apart thing. And the Bulls don't hope to re-sign Deng, they expect to re-sign him.

[Red Larrivee]

IMO, you're putting too much on the $5-6mil apart thing. And the Bulls don't hope to re-sign Deng, they expect to re-sign him.

Read K.C.'s piece:

"Their preference remains to keep him IF they can re-sign him for the RIGHT price this summer.

Read between the lines. The Bulls will only re-sign Deng if he meets their price range. Their price range is not the same as Deng's. They want him to take a pay cut to come back. K.C. said as much on the Score after the Rose injury. He said their plan was to win a championship and "dare Deng to leave the Bulls." They wanted him to take a paycut to return to a championship team. Without that card to play, K.C. admitted the chances were slim they would bring him back.

As far as "expecting" to re-sign someone, the Bulls expected to re-sign Omer Asik. How did that work out? All it takes is one team to make a bloated offer to lure a free agent away.

[dougthonus]

Then you would have to qualify "underwhelming".

Look, we don't know any of this. But I sure don't trust the Bulls to have a realistic idea of market value for their own players. Or actual value for that matter.

What are the odds of a mid first round pick being better than Luol Deng for the next three to five years?

That and salary relief seems to be what most Bulls fans want to trade him for (including myself). If the Bulls view a Deng trade as one they only make if they get back similar on court value, then he likely will not be traded.

[Red Larrivee]

If Deng isn't in a Bulls uniform next season and the mid first round pick is, then it's a no brainer. Who knows what that draft pick could eventually become.

[Mech Engineer]

Then you would have to qualify "underwhelming".

Look, we don't know any of this. But I sure don't trust the Bulls to have a realistic idea of market value for their own players. Or actual value for that matter.

What are the odds of a mid first round pick being better than Luol Deng for the next three to five years?

That and salary relief seems to be what most Bulls fans want to trade him for (including myself). If the Bulls view a Deng trade as one they only make if they get back similar on court value, then he likely will not be traded.

I agree.. Even in the worst case scenario, the Bulls will have a shot at resigning Deng in summer. I am not all that high having too many picks even in a supposedly great draft. The last thing you want is to become the Clippers of the last few decades with too many young players not developing in sync. A mid-round pick is not going to get playing time and gets lost for a few years like what had happened to Jimmy.

The Bulls chances to win a championship are in the next 3-5 years and Deng is going to be more useful for that than a mid-round pick. There is a difference between doing the Nets way of losing every pick for the next 5 years compared to a plan for winning in 2020. Both are extreme choices.

[transplant]

IMO, you're putting too much on the $5-6mil apart thing. And the Bulls don't hope to re-sign Deng, they expect to re-sign him.

Read K.C.'s piece:

"Their preference remains to keep him IF they can re-sign him for the RIGHT price this summer.

Read between the lines. The Bulls will only re-sign Deng if he meets their price range. Their price range is not the same as Deng's. They want him to take a pay cut to come back. K.C. said as much on the Score after the Rose injury. He said their plan was to win a championship and "dare Deng to leave the Bulls." They wanted him to take a paycut to return to a championship team. Without that card to play, K.C. admitted the chances were slim they would bring him back.

As far as "expecting" to re-sign someone, the Bulls expected to re-sign Omer Asik. How did that work out? All it takes is one team to make a bloated offer to lure a free agent away.

I'm pretty sure that we both learned to read what's on the lines in the same way. One thing I've learned about reading "between the lines" is that it's not so much a skill as it is that we read what we want to read. You and I want to read different things, so we do.

Of course the Bulls would like to sign Deng for a team-friendly contract. However, Bulls management wants to compete for titles in the next 3-5 seasons so they'll pay Deng what they need to pay Deng.

[Red Larrivee]

However, Bulls management wants to compete for titles in the next 3-5 seasons so they'll pay Deng what they need to pay Deng.

You're essentially saying the Bulls want to re-sign Deng unconditionally. However, no source is reporting that they want to re-sign Deng unconditionally. Everything hinges on the "right" number and one side caving on their demands.

Deng does not want to take a pay cut next season, which is logical. He has career highs in points, rebounds, assists and has led the league in minutes two of the last four seasons. From a value standpoint, Rose's injury is the best thing to happen to Deng. He can get all the shots he wants and his value increases ten fold. Deng's agent can point to the contracts of Andre Iguodala and Josh Smith for evidence to a $14-15M per year contract.

This is far from a one horse race. Deng is going to talk to other teams and test the market. If Mark Cuban comes running down the street with a 4 year, $56-60M offer, all bets are off. If Kobe Bryant and Jim Buss are on line one, all bets are off.

[MrSparkle]

Gotta be honest, at this point, I'd sooner trade Noah/Boozer as a pair to Brooklyn for 100% expiring contracts and 1st picks (with a 3rd team, PHX) than Deng. We could have almost $26m in cap-space with them 2 and Deng off the books, not to mention we'd be in contention for a top-5 pick..

You'd have big TPEs and tons of 1st picks for trade scenarios, not to mention young talent. I feel like it'd be kind of easy to fill out the team with studs.

Deng is an expiring contract, and won't help a more depleted Bulls team when any more games than now... which they're losing, any way.

[transplant]

However, Bulls management wants to compete for titles in the next 3-5 seasons so they'll pay Deng what they need to pay Deng.

You're essentially saying the Bulls want to re-sign Deng unconditionally. However, no source is reporting that they want to re-sign Deng unconditionally. Everything hinges on the "right" number and one side caving on their demands.

Deng does not want to take a pay cut next season, which is logical. He has career highs in points, rebounds, assists and has led the league in minutes two of the last four seasons. From a value standpoint, Rose's injury is the best thing to happen to Deng. He can get all the shots he wants and his value increases ten fold.

This is far from a one horse race. Deng is going to talk to other teams and test the market. If Mark Cuban comes running down the street with a 4 year, $56-60M offer, all bets are off. If Kobe Bryant and Jim Buss are on line one, all bets are off.

Sometimes teams have players they value highly hit free agency. In a very high percentage of these cases, these players stay with their teams. I expect that Deng's free agency will go as most of the others and he'll remain a Bull. I don't see where I'm being delusional.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

I already posted this in the trade thread but I'll put it in here as well.

Charlotte just lost Jeff Taylor for the year and have out MKG on the trade block. So how about Deng for MKG.

Bulls get a potential player while saving some cash. Bobcats get a talented veteran who would lead them to a playoff berth.

Not in the best interests of our pick. But whatever.

Is this a stupid proposal?

[fleet]

Then you would have to qualify "underwhelming".

Look, we don't know any of this. But I sure don't trust the Bulls to have a realistic idea of market value for their own players. Or actual value for that matter.

What are the odds of a mid first round pick being better than Luol Deng for the next three to five years?

That and salary relief seems to be what most Bulls fans want to trade him for (including myself). If the Bulls view a Deng trade as one they only make if they get back similar on court value, then he likely will not be traded.

In a world where the Bulls have a massive (now a bad) Rose contract...
In a world where the Bulls have to pay players such as Deng and Boozer who do not fix the Bulls problems.....
In a world where this team cannot beat the best or even survive to try.....

Then the Bulls have to roll the dice on new and cheaper players coming in for the Bulls' limited spending account. Somebody's got to go in order to do all that. Once that course is decided, you have to maximize your draft position to benefit as much as possible. I don't think you search for "equal value" for Deng. You seek another direction of team building and use him now to set that up as best you can instead of waiting until the offseason to decide Deng is too expensive. And I don't think you worry about the next 2 years as much as you worry aboit the 3 years after those 2. The Bulls have to play long. This group is cooked. Unreliable. You can't just sit back and hope that Mirotic is Dirk and that is the plan. Not good enough. Not given the Bulls problems. You don't just put one bullet in your rifle and hope to drop the buck imo.

It is time for a youth movement. Like Red says..never know what we can find. And you should go all in once you decide to take that path.

[transplant]

I already posted this in the trade thread but I'll put it in here as well.

Charlotte just lost Jeff Taylor for the year and have out MKG on the trade block. So how about Deng for MKG.

Bulls get a potential player while saving some cash. Bobcats get a talented veteran who would lead them to a playoff berth.

Not in the best interests of our pick. But whatever.

Is this a stupid proposal?

Not stupid, but counter-reality.

Deng's the much better player and he understandably costs more. The Bulls, as a large market team, are in a far better position to pay serious money to a non-superstar than the Bobcats/Hornets are. Also, the Bulls, as a championship contender in the 2014-15 season and for at least a couple seasons after that would rather have the proven player.

[dougthonus]

In a world where the Bulls have a massive (now a bad) Rose contract...
In a world where the Bulls have to pay players such as Deng and Boozer who do not fix the Bulls problems.....
In a world where this team cannot beat the best or even survive to try.....

I don't know that the Bulls view the world in that light though.

It is time for a youth movement. Like Red says..never know what we can find. And you should go all in once you decide to take that path.

I don't know how frequently the "all in" youth movement works. How many quality teams have ever formed from that theory? The Thunder are one, I'm not sure I could name another recent one though.

[othawhitemeat]

Then you would have to qualify "underwhelming".

Look, we don't know any of this. But I sure don't trust the Bulls to have a realistic idea of market value for their own players. Or actual value for that matter.

What are the odds of a mid first round pick being better than Luol Deng for the next three to five years?

That and salary relief seems to be what most Bulls fans want to trade him for (including myself). If the Bulls view a Deng trade as one they only make if they get back similar on court value, then he likely will not be traded.

The mid-first allows you to spend money on other pieces. Neither will be as good as Deng, but they could be more of what we need for our team (offense) at a cheaper rate, we get a good young player, and we sign Mirotic. Also, we pretty much secure our offense being even worse this year and that helps our lottery chances (Parker, Wiggins, Embiid, or Exum) - getting one of those because we traded Deng is awesome.

[bullsnewdynasty]

You can always trade young players for veterans, especially if a star wants out. Guys on rookie contracts are the most valuable trade commodities next to draft picks. i.e. look at how the Clippers got CP3, they traded a future pick plus two recent lottery picks. Just because you go young doesn't mean you're committed to a full rebuild in the long term.

[molepharmer]

KC just posted a story in the Tribute confirming this. Says the Bulls prefer to keep Deng and will not just dump him for salary reasons.

Also said any offers the Bulls have received are underwhelming.

We'll be the judge of underwhelming The Bulls have a ridiculously high level of perceived value of their own players. The offers are possibly somewhat fair and the Bulls are possibly unrealistic.

According to one article, the Bulls value Deng at $8-9 mil. Those trade offers have to be pretty ridiculous if they're not willing to listen given their supposed valuation of Lu.

Note: Same article says Deng wants $13-15 mil, thus the $5-6 mil difference.

[transplant]

KC just posted a story in the Tribute confirming this. Says the Bulls prefer to keep Deng and will not just dump him for salary reasons.

Also said any offers the Bulls have received are underwhelming.

We'll be the judge of underwhelming The Bulls have a ridiculously high level of perceived value of their own players. The offers are possibly somewhat fair and the Bulls are possibly unrealistic.

According to one article, the Bulls value Deng at $8-9 mil. Those trade offers have to be pretty ridiculous if they're not willing to listen given their supposed valuation of Lu.

Note: Same article says Deng wants $13-15 mil, thus the $5-6 mil difference.

I suggest that you consider the $8-9mil figure to be bull and things will clear up a bit.