ESPN: Bulls "determined" to NOT trade Deng

[TheBigSqueeze]

You can always trade young players for veterans, especially if a star wants out. Guys on rookie contracts are the most valuable trade commodities next to draft picks. i.e. look at how the Clippers got CP3, they traded a future pick plus two recent lottery picks. Just because you go young doesn't mean you're committed to a full rebuild in the long term.

Exactly. HOU essentialy got Harden for Lamb (a high draft pick) and a rental of KMart. Granted OKC did get Steven Adams also but Harden is worth more than all of those players combined.

You never know when a KLove deal might spring about and if we had productive young talent on rookie deals that would be very attractive to other GM's.

A lot more attractive than an aging Luol Deng on a high end contract that doesn't end for 4-5 years. Teams that have stars who leave usually look to rebuild afterward, meaning they probably don't want vets who make them middle of the pack (i.e. DEN after Melo trade), especially not vets making upwards of 13 mil a year.

[dougthonus]

Of course the Bulls would like to sign Deng for a team-friendly contract. However, Bulls management wants to compete for titles in the next 3-5 seasons so they'll pay Deng what they need to pay Deng.

I guess this is the crux of the situation.

Many people (including myself) feel the Bulls won't pay Deng whatever they need to in order to keep him because of the future financial consequences. If they're willing to pay Deng (and still make other moves even if they stay in the tax), then I'm all for keeping Deng too.

[BigUps]

You can always trade young players for veterans, especially if a star wants out. Guys on rookie contracts are the most valuable trade commodities next to draft picks. i.e. look at how the Clippers got CP3, they traded a future pick plus two recent lottery picks. Just because you go young doesn't mean you're committed to a full rebuild in the long term.

Exactly. HOU essentialy got Harden for Lamb (a high draft pick) and a rental of KMart. Granted OKC did get Steven Adams also but Harden is worth more than all of those players combined.

You never know when a KLove deal might spring about and if we had productive young talent on rookie deals that would be very attractive to other GM's.

A lot more attractive than an aging Luol Deng on a high end contract that doesn't end for 4-5 years. Teams that have stars who leave usually look to rebuild afterward, meaning they probably don't want vets who make them middle of the pack (i.e. DEN after Melo trade), especially not vets making upwards of 13 mil a year.

Wouldn't young players have to play to be productive? That's an issue.

[heir_jordan22]

They must also expect to dump Dunleavy and replace his shooting with a rookie. Otherwise they won't have the money to keep Deng and bring Nikola over.

[dougthonus]

The mid-first allows you to spend money on other pieces. Neither will be as good as Deng, but they could be more of what we need for our team (offense) at a cheaper rate, we get a good young player, and we sign Mirotic. Also, we pretty much secure our offense being even worse this year and that helps our lottery chances (Parker, Wiggins, Embiid, or Exum) - getting one of those because we traded Deng is awesome.

To be clear, I'm leading the trade Deng bandwagon. I was just noting that if Transplant is correct on the Bulls criteria that it's unlikely they'll trade him, and his view point couldn't certainly be one that's viewed similarly by management.

In terms of spending Deng's money on others, you could do that, but for the most part, I don't think the Bulls will be overly restricted in moves they can or can't make because of Deng's salary but only financial willingness. If they can keep Deng and ownership doesn't impose a heavy cap then his salary wont' be much of a barrier at all.

[transplant]

Of course the Bulls would like to sign Deng for a team-friendly contract. However, Bulls management wants to compete for titles in the next 3-5 seasons so they'll pay Deng what they need to pay Deng.

I guess this is the crux of the situation.

Many people (including myself) feel the Bulls won't pay Deng whatever they need to in order to keep him because of the future financial consequences. If they're willing to pay Deng (and still make other moves even if they stay in the tax), then I'm all for keeping Deng too.

Yeah it is.

Even if they sign Deng to a contract starting at $15mil, the Bulls can still avoid the LT next season. The team has proven that they're willing to pay the tax.

In the end, we'll all have to wait and see, but i think the Bulls have shown themselves willing to spend.

[Red Larrivee]

Sometimes teams have players they value highly hit free agency. In a very high percentage of these cases, these players stay with their teams. I expect that Deng's free agency will go as most of the others and he'll remain a Bull. I don't see where I'm being delusional.

You're not being delusional, but there's no source of them wanting to re-sign Deng unconditionally. Each report or reliable source has the Bulls wanting to bring back Deng "if the price is right."

Right now, Deng's price is not right. They are $5-6M apart, if we're to believe Joe Cowley of the Sun-Times. It does not sound like the Bulls want to re-sign Deng at $14-15M per year. That's a lot of money and has huge albatross/backfire potential.

[Polynice4Pippen]

So as it stands, there's a real possibility Gar/Pax have alienated Thibs to the point where he wants to leave, they're committed to very possibly overpaying Luol Deng even though he's not even leading us to victories over Utah and Milwaukee, still quite possibly believe Butler is our SG of the future, still believe in Hinrich being our top guard off the bench over the likes of Nate Robinson and more offensive minded players, have locked up Marquis Teague for another season, may or may not be able to bring Mirotic over, may or may not be inclined to amnesty Boozer, and still believe Derrick Rose will be 100% healthy and ready to carry the load offensively next season? Got it.

[MalagaBulls]

The mid-first allows you to spend money on other pieces. Neither will be as good as Deng, but they could be more of what we need for our team (offense) at a cheaper rate, we get a good young player, and we sign Mirotic. Also, we pretty much secure our offense being even worse this year and that helps our lottery chances (Parker, Wiggins, Embiid, or Exum) - getting one of those because we traded Deng is awesome.

To be clear, I'm leading the trade Deng bandwagon. I was just noting that if Transplant is correct on the Bulls criteria that it's unlikely they'll trade him, and his view point couldn't certainly be one that's viewed similarly by management.

In terms of spending Deng's money on others, you could do that, but for the most part, I don't think the Bulls will be overly restricted in moves they can or can't make because of Deng's salary but only financial willingness. If they can keep Deng and ownership doesn't impose a heavy cap then his salary wont' be much of a barrier at all.

I don't know if I am in the minority or this May seem absurd but it seems the future core the Bulls want to keep around Rose are Deng/Noah and the players on rookie contracts plus Mirotic, 2014 picks.

[transplant]

Sometimes teams have players they value highly hit free agency. In a very high percentage of these cases, these players stay with their teams. I expect that Deng's free agency will go as most of the others and he'll remain a Bull. I don't see where I'm being delusional.

You're not being delusional, but there's no source of them wanting to re-sign Deng unconditionally. Each report or reliable source has the Bulls wanting to bring back Deng "if the price is right."

Right now, Deng's price is not right. They are $5-6M apart, if we're to believe Joe Cowley of the Sun-Times. It does not sound like the Bulls want to re-sign Deng at $14-15M per year. That's a lot of money and has huge albatross/backfire potential.

First, I do not believe Joe Cowley of the Sun-Times.

Second, what the two sides were willing to do last summer may have little to do with what they may be willing to do a year later.

Third, the Bulls can either have Deng at say $15mil, or they can replace Deng with about $7mil. Bulls management wants to win now...they'll pay the $15mil if they must.

[Red Larrivee]

I already posted this in the trade thread but I'll put it in here as well.

Charlotte just lost Jeff Taylor for the year and have out MKG on the trade block. So how about Deng for MKG.

Bulls get a potential player while saving some cash. Bobcats get a talented veteran who would lead them to a playoff berth.

Not in the best interests of our pick. But whatever.

Is this a stupid proposal?

From Charlotte's perspective, they have the cap space to sign Deng outright next summer, so I don't think they would bite. They could sign Deng and deal MKG for a pick or something.

It makes sense though from a value standpoint.

[Red Larrivee]

Second, what the two sides were willing to do last summer may have little to do with what they may be willing to do a year later.

Possibly, but it also sets the tone of negotiations. If they're $5-6M apart, that means the Bulls want Deng to take a heavy paycut before their negotiations can reach a serious level.

Deng has no reason to take a heavy paycut.

Third, the Bulls can either have Deng at say $15mil, or they can replace Deng with about $7mil. Bulls management wants to win now...they'll pay the $15mil if they must.

The Bulls could have Deng at $15M or not have him at $15M. One scenario completely avoids having an albatross contract of a player in their 30's. It's not as simple as choosing the transaction or non-transaction. It's about how likely Deng is to live up to his contract.

Re-signing Deng makes the team better in the short-term, but it does not make the Bulls a championship contender next season either. There is no move short of getting a bonafide superstar that pushes the Bulls back into that conversation.

Deng at $15M is a big overpay for past production with little upside. Choosing short-term satisfaction isn't the best idea right now. The Bulls need to be thinking long-term with his contract and it's great they are. The most I would give Deng is $10M.

[transplant]

But Red, you forgot that I don't believe Cowley.

[Red Larrivee]

Do you believe K.C. or any other source? They're all painting the picture that both sides are far apart. Again, K.C. said the Bulls plan was to win a championship and dare Deng to not take a paycut to stay on a championship team/contender. Without that, K.C. admitted the chances were slim of his return.

This is from a source after the negotiations ended:

“We were optimistic,” the source said of the mentality Deng’s camp had heading into the late August meeting, approximately two weeks ago. “Our goal was to get an extension done this summer. If that’s not what they want to do, so be it.

That doesn't sound like the Bulls are unconditionally seeking to re-sign him.

[ikeziskash]

Of course the Bulls would like to sign Deng for a team-friendly contract. However, Bulls management wants to compete for titles in the next 3-5 seasons so they'll pay Deng what they need to pay Deng.

I guess this is the crux of the situation.

Many people (including myself) feel the Bulls won't pay Deng whatever they need to in order to keep him because of the future financial consequences. If they're willing to pay Deng (and still make other moves even if they stay in the tax), then I'm all for keeping Deng too.

Tailor made situation for a other round of garpax excuses.... We wanted to resign him but another team offered more than we could...not our fault" for the millionth time

[transplant]

Do you believe K.C. or any other source? They're all painting the picture that both sides are far apart. Again, K.C. said the Bulls plan was to win a championship and dare Deng to not take a paycut to stay on a championship team/contender. Without that, K.C. admitted the chances were slim of his return.

This is from a source after the negotiations ended:

“We were optimistic,” the source said of the mentality Deng’s camp had heading into the late August meeting, approximately two weeks ago. “Our goal was to get an extension done this summer. If that’s not what they want to do, so be it.

That doesn't sound like the Bulls are unconditionally seeking to re-sign him.

For me, all the quotes out there are just noise. I'm using logic:

1) Bulls are committed to contending for a championship.

2) Deng is critical to the Bulls contending for a championship.

3) If an amnestied Boozer is replaced by a MLE Mirotic, the Bulls can give Deng $15 mil w/o paying the LT.

4) Virtually any scenario that doesn't include Deng remaining a Bull is contrary to the goal of contending for a championship.

My advice is not to worry so much about what "sources" are saying. You're being played. Think about what makes sense considering the mindset of management, and keep in mind that the thought processes of most posters are diametrically opposed to those of Bulls' management.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Do you believe K.C. or any other source? They're all painting the picture that both sides are far apart. Again, K.C. said the Bulls plan was to win a championship and dare Deng to not take a paycut to stay on a championship team/contender. Without that, K.C. admitted the chances were slim of his return.

This is from a source after the negotiations ended:

“We were optimistic,” the source said of the mentality Deng’s camp had heading into the late August meeting, approximately two weeks ago. “Our goal was to get an extension done this summer. If that’s not what they want to do, so be it.

That doesn't sound like the Bulls are unconditionally seeking to re-sign him.

For me, all the quotes out there are just noise. I'm using logic:

1) Bulls are committed to contending for a championship.

2) Deng is critical to the Bulls contending for a championship.

3) If an amnestied Boozer is replaced by a MLE Mirotic, the Bulls can give Deng $15 mil w/o paying the LT.

4) Virtually any scenario that doesn't include Deng remaining a Bull is contrary to the goal of contending for a championship.

My advice is not to worry so much about what "sources" are saying. You're being played. Think about what makes sense considering the mindset of management, and keep in mind that the thought processes of most posters are diametrically opposed to those of Bulls' management.

If the Bulls pay Deng $15 million, and bring over Mirotic, where are they going to find an offensive minded SG? Trading Deng for Waiters and pieces gives you an offensive minded 6th man type, plus money left over to fill in other pieces while still having Butler ready to step in at his natural SF position and excel the way he did in the postseason last year.

[kyrv]

Sometimes teams have players they value highly hit free agency. In a very high percentage of these cases, these players stay with their teams. I expect that Deng's free agency will go as most of the others and he'll remain a Bull. I don't see where I'm being delusional.

You're not being delusional, but there's no source of them wanting to re-sign Deng unconditionally. Each report or reliable source has the Bulls wanting to bring back Deng "if the price is right."

Right now, Deng's price is not right. They are $5-6M apart, if we're to believe Joe Cowley of the Sun-Times. It does not sound like the Bulls want to re-sign Deng at $14-15M per year. That's a lot of money and has huge albatross/backfire potential.

First, I do not believe Joe Cowley of the Sun-Times.

Second, what the two sides were willing to do last summer may have little to do with what they may be willing to do a year later.

Third, the Bulls can either have Deng at say $15mil, or they can replace Deng with about $7mil. Bulls management wants to win now...they'll pay the $15mil if they must.

I also don't believe Cowley and don't really get the thing where we pretend that the latest conjecture is by default factual.

Cowley

[kyrv]

Do you believe K.C. or any other source? They're all painting the picture that both sides are far apart. Again, K.C. said the Bulls plan was to win a championship and dare Deng to not take a paycut to stay on a championship team/contender. Without that, K.C. admitted the chances were slim of his return.

This is from a source after the negotiations ended:

“We were optimistic,” the source said of the mentality Deng’s camp had heading into the late August meeting, approximately two weeks ago. “Our goal was to get an extension done this summer. If that’s not what they want to do, so be it.

That doesn't sound like the Bulls are unconditionally seeking to re-sign him.

For me, all the quotes out there are just noise. I'm using logic:

1) Bulls are committed to contending for a championship.

2) Deng is critical to the Bulls contending for a championship.

3) If an amnestied Boozer is replaced by a MLE Mirotic, the Bulls can give Deng $15 mil w/o paying the LT.

4) Virtually any scenario that doesn't include Deng remaining a Bull is contrary to the goal of contending for a championship.

My advice is not to worry so much about what "sources" are saying. You're being played. Think about what makes sense considering the mindset of management, and keep in mind that the thought processes of most posters are diametrically opposed to those of Bulls' management.

If the Bulls pay Deng $15 million, and bring over Mirotic, where are they going to find an offensive minded SG? Trading Deng for Waiters and pieces gives you an offensive minded 6th man type, plus money left over to fill in other pieces while still having Butler ready to step in at his natural SF position and excel the way he did in the postseason last year.

There is disgreement that Butler is a natural SF though here. Have the Bulls hinted? But if you keep Denb then Butler is the SG.

[Red Larrivee]

For me, all the quotes out there are just noise. I'm using logic:

1) Bulls are committed to contending for a championship.

Are they? Is that why in 11 years on the job, Paxson has yet to build a consistently good offense?

2) Deng is critical to the Bulls contending for a championship.

He's good to have, at the right price of course.

3) If an amnestied Boozer is replaced by a MLE Mirotic, the Bulls can give Deng $15 mil w/o paying the LT.

Yes, but giving Deng $15M is not a smart idea long-term.

4) Virtually any scenario that doesn't include Deng remaining a Bull is contrary to the goal of contending for a championship.

The Bulls might not contend for a championship with or without him. There's a lot more to it than "bring Deng Back." We have a point guard who hasn't played a full season of basketball since 2010-11. We still have a terrible offense and our players suffer from a vast amount of injuries.

My advice is not to worry so much about what "sources" are saying. You're being played.

If it was just one source, sure. Problem is you're trying to brush off a multitude of sources here repeating the same thing. I highly doubt all of them are being fed false information.