Joel Embiid

[TheSuzerain]

Bilas is delusional, Embiid is nowhere near Oden was, it's just that simple.

Other than Oden? he might have a point.

I want to see Embiid putting the ball on the floor and driving more.

Production wise, Embiid is close to Oden, except Oden was better able to stay on the floor. That is certainly to Oden's credit, but I find that wart to be eminently forgivable for a prospect who has played as little as Embiid.

Embiid even clearly surpasses Oden in some interesting areas like assists and steals.

[Big_C_KU]

I want to see Embiid putting the ball on the floor and driving more.

Expand on this thought.

I've seen Embiid have success catching the ball in the mid-post, pivoting, and taking a dribble or 2 and get a bucket or a foul. Seems like 1-2 dribble drives he's fine. I don't wanna see him catch the foul on the perimeter and drive unless there's a WIDE open lane. He's a C, not a SF. Wanting to see him put the ball on the floor and drive sounds like just trying to find ways to downgrade him.

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[No-Man]

It's not a way to downgrade him, just the opposite.
I'm talking about moves that Lopez can make, or Bosh, or Gasol in his prime, for example, faking the shot near the 3pointline and drive inside, developing his face-up game.

I'm not talking about production with Oden, is just a genetic thing, Oden athleticism for a guy of his size, his strength, is unparalel, that along make him a better prospect than Embiid.
Oden was like a 7'1 LeBron James from an athletic perspective, that's amazing.

And I have to point to Drummond too, his playing wasnt as good as Embiid, but he came into college with at least the same amount of potential and his physical atributes are better.

[LloydFree]

I want to see Embiid putting the ball on the floor and driving more.

Expand on this thought.

I've seen Embiid have success catching the ball in the mid-post, pivoting, and taking a dribble or 2 and get a bucket or a foul. Seems like 1-2 dribble drives he's fine. I don't wanna see him catch the foul on the perimeter and drive unless there's a WIDE open lane. He's a C, not a SF. Wanting to see him put the ball on the floor and drive sounds like just trying to find ways to downgrade him.

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You are correct. Embiid has no business putting the ball on the floor for more than 1 or 2 dribbles. He is a center. Bringing the ball down is one of the mistakes that big men commit regularly.

[Randle McMurphy]

Bilas is delusional, Embiid is nowhere near Oden was, it's just that simple.

Other than Oden? he might have a point.
.

You've either misremembered what Oden was or haven't watched nearly enough of Embiid yet.

[Randle McMurphy]

It's not a way to downgrade him, just the opposite.
I'm talking about moves that Lopez can make, or Bosh, or Gasol in his prime, for example, faking the shot near the 3pointline and drive inside, developing his face-up game.

The first play here (euro step move) from near the 3 PT line) would probably be what you're looking for (although I'm not exactly sure why), but Embiid is primarily a post up player for KU and should remain so considering his incredible efficiency there: [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1lgI-8np7w[/youtube]

[No-Man]

He won't be that efficient in NBA with that lower body strength, but he is quick and has great feet, so he can probably fake and go in at NBA level.

That's why.

[CBB_Fan]

If Embiid continues playing as well as he has the past two games, he'll be an equal prospect with Oden. He's more efficient, gets more steals and assists, and rebounds, but Oden was still more explosive and better at getting to the line.

A healthy Oden would have been the best center in the league, and I think Embiid has the same chance. Like Oden, I don't think that having that chance means he is certain to succeed.

[EMG518]

Im seriously considering changing my stance on Wiggins as the #1 pick to Embiid.

[LloydFree]

Im seriously considering changing my stance on Wiggins as the #1 pick to Embiid.

I had the same epiphany two weeks ago. I watched the Colorado game, and in a span of five minutes saw him spin left into a RH hook, then spin right into a LH Hook, then a couple possessions later, spin left into a 10 foot fade away jumper. He runs the floor like a forward and his footwork is superb for a 19 year old. He will have a chance to be the best Center in the game, in a couple years.

[Dr Positivity]

I think Wiggins will lose his 1st ranking on Ford's big board next update, but it'll be Parker put there for now

[EMG518]

I had the same epiphany two weeks ago. I watched the Colorado game, and in a span of five minutes saw him spin left into a RH hook, then spin right into a LH Hook, then a couple possessions later, spin left into a 10 foot fade away jumper. He runs the floor like a forward and his footwork is superb for a 19 year old. He will have a chance to be the best Center in the game, in a couple years.

I have had him at #3 the past couple of weeks but I didnt think I could have pulled the trigger on him over Wiggins or Parker. He is progressing so quickly as a player though its crazy. He looked nothing like this a year ago. Wiggins on the other hand is pretty similiar to what I saw in the past couple of years. Im not sure his skills ever develop enough for him to become an elite player at the rate he is going. I could see Embiid being the best center in the NBA a few years from now as well.

I think Wiggins will lose his 1st ranking on Ford's big board next update, but it'll be Parker put there for now

Very possible, will Embiid jump him as well is what I would be curious to see.

[DayofMourning]

If Embiid continues playing as well as he has the past two games, he'll be an equal prospect with Oden. He's more efficient, gets more steals and assists, and rebounds, but Oden was still more explosive and better at getting to the line.

A healthy Oden would have been the best center in the league, and I think Embiid has the same chance. Like Oden, I don't think that having that chance means he is certain to succeed.

I'm missing the point here. Greg Oden averaged 16 points, 10 rebs, and 3 blks on 61% shooting his freshman season. Embiid hasn't matched that yet. We don't have to jump to judge every player before their time. Greg was injured and played with his off hand his freshman season and still put up those crazy numbers. He was a better prospect than Embiid.

[Randle McMurphy]

If Embiid continues playing as well as he has the past two games, he'll be an equal prospect with Oden. He's more efficient, gets more steals and assists, and rebounds, but Oden was still more explosive and better at getting to the line.

A healthy Oden would have been the best center in the league, and I think Embiid has the same chance. Like Oden, I don't think that having that chance means he is certain to succeed.

I'm missing the point here. Greg Oden averaged 16 points, 10 rebs, and 3 blks on 61% shooting his freshman season. Embiid hasn't matched that yet. We don't have to jump to judge every player before their time. Greg was injured and played with his off hand his freshman season and still put up those crazy numbers. He was a better prospect than Embiid.

Player A: 119.6 ORtg, 22.5 %Poss, 66.1 eFG%, 65.8 TS%, 13.3 OR%, 23.1 DR%, 12.0 ARate, 17.6 TORate, 12.9 BLK%, 3.1 STL%, 5.6 FD/40, 69.6 FTRate, 61.5 FT%,

Player B: 116.2 ORtg, 26.3 %Poss, 61.6 eFG%, 62.6 eFG%, 14.7 OR%, 23.9 DR%, 5.0 ARate, 16.0 TORate, 12.7 BLK%, 1.2 STL%, 6.2 FD/40, 63.8 FTRate, 62.8 FT%

One of these statistical profiles belongs to Oden, the other is Embiid. Can you pick out which one is which?

[Bubstubbler]

Player A's stat line will look even better tomorrow when today's game gets factored in.

[Bubstubbler]

He was a better prospect than Embiid.

Oden was a better developed prospect as a freshman, but not a better prospect. Comparable? Maybe, but I would certainly draft freshman Embiid as the superior prospect over freshman Oden.

First, there were enormous (and legitimate) doubts about Greg's ability to stay healthy well before the draft. Second, while it's true that Oden was further along developmentally as a freshman, that has to be taken in context: Oden had FAR more experience and training at that stage, and was rightfully expected to be more developed at that stage. Third/fourth/fifth, Oden also lacked Embiid's fluidity, his penchant for picking up and executing advanced low post moves, and his sweet shooting stroke. Oden was a beast, but Embiid's top-end is even higher.

Just as a refresher, here's Draft Express on Oden:

What’s been most concerning so far is the almost complete lack of fluidity that Oden is displaying on the offensive end. He’s very mechanical in the post, being highly predictable with his moves and not looking flexible enough to react to what defenses are throwing at him and counter with any kind of polish. Looking at the way he is scoring his points, it’s hard to get any kind of feeling that what he’s doing at the college level will fly in the NBA in the least bit, as his entire game is based off overpowering shorter, weaker and less athletic opponents and scoring almost exclusively within 5 feet of the hoop. At age 18, he still has plenty of room to grow as a player, meaning he’ll likely learn how to use his body better in the post, get better at taking the ball up strong to the basket, and improve his footwork-- but there are certain traits in an athlete that are just innate, and we aren’t seeing them at all from him so far.
- Durant Eclipses Oden on DraftExpress Mock Draft – 2/3/07

Offensively, while he showed some great flashes, there are still too many long stretches in which he is almost completely silent, not calling for the ball despite his obvious natural advantages over the weak frontcourts the Big Ten has to offer, and struggling to create offense for himself on a consistent basis when he does get the ball. He had quite a few awkward and mechanical moves with his back to the basket where he just bulldozed his smaller and weaker man over using his brute strength to somehow throw the ball in the rim or get to the free throw line, but it’s hard to see these types of moves translating over effectively to the NBA. He still needs to work on his counters to expand his arsenal of tricks with which he can finish with, but at age 18, he’s not doing poorly for himself at this point.
-NBA Draft Stock Watch: Conference Tournament Week (Part Two) -3/13/07

[Dr Positivity]

Oden was considered his generation's Shaq Duncan prospect

[No-Man]

Oden could do this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rd7yTZMvqI

It really doesnt matter, it's not about stats or fluidity, it's about genetic, Oden strength and power is something Embiid won't be able to match, ever, no matter how hard he trains.

[sikma42]

Oden was considered his generation's Shaq Duncan prospect

And it was silly at the time.

[Hendrix]

First, there were enormous (and legitimate) doubts about Greg's ability to stay healthy well before the draft. ]

Not really. Maybe in hindsight. There was a very slight amount of discussion on his health. hardly "enormous" amounts. Iirc, the few people that were talking about it mostly consisted of Orlando fans that liked Dwight.

And it was silly at the time.

No it wasn't. That's easy to say in hindsight, but at the time he looked like the next best C for a generation. I remember there being a thread asking "would you take Dwight or Oden" (this was prior to Oden even playing a game, and when Dwight was a beats). The vast majority picked Oden, and even the Magic fans that were choosing Dwight were only doing so because of the possibility of injury, but a lot of them even thought Oden had the higher ceiling.