Jordan Crawford

[dckingsfan]

And of course he left professionally...
http://wizofawes.com/2013/04/06/jordan- ... e-wizards/

[Dark Faze]

We all knew Jordan could put up numbers as a starting point guard. Maybe not quite at this efficiency. The real question is how he'll react when he's a sixth man type of guard again.

[nate33]

We all knew Jordan could put up numbers as a starting point guard. Maybe not quite at this efficiency. The real question is how he'll react when he's a sixth man type of guard again.

I wouldn't say that. I think Jordan's play has been truly surprising. I definitely did not expect this kind of production at this efficiency.

[montestewart]

We all knew Jordan could put up numbers as a starting point guard. Maybe not quite at this efficiency. The real question is how he'll react when he's a sixth man type of guard again.

I wouldn't say that. I think Jordan's play has been truly surprising. I definitely did not expect this kind of production at this efficiency.

Agreed, but despite his often erratic play here, he was clearly talented. His rapid decline in fortunes here (in hindsight it seemed like a two week spat that ended in divorce) and his trade that brought nothing in return was a little baffling to me. As with Blatche, it seemed the Wizards handled a difficult player situation in such a way as to reduce Crawford's value to nothing by the time they moved him. Still, I doubt anyone (including Ainge) ever predicted this type of play from him.

[dckingsfan]

We all knew Jordan could put up numbers as a starting point guard. Maybe not quite at this efficiency. The real question is how he'll react when he's a sixth man type of guard again.

I wouldn't say that. I think Jordan's play has been truly surprising. I definitely did not expect this kind of production at this efficiency.

Agreed, but despite his often erratic play here, he was clearly talented. His rapid decline in fortunes here (in hindsight it seemed like a two week spat that ended in divorce) and his trade that brought nothing in return was a little baffling to me. As with Blatche, it seemed the Wizards handled a difficult player situation in such a way as to reduce Crawford's value to nothing by the time they moved him. Still, I doubt anyone (including Ainge) ever predicted this type of play from him.

What, a repeated failure of the front office?

[Dark Faze]

We all knew Jordan could put up numbers as a starting point guard. Maybe not quite at this efficiency. The real question is how he'll react when he's a sixth man type of guard again.

I wouldn't say that. I think Jordan's play has been truly surprising. I definitely did not expect this kind of production at this efficiency.

It's been good but I don't know that I'd call it dramatic. Look at his PER 36 numbers from when he played with Washington--he actually had higher PPG totals per 36 with us than with Boston. Yea, he's more efficient--improving his FG% from .41 to .43 (and a slightly higher bump in TS), but the writing was clearly on the Wall (hehe) that Jordan could put up numbers.

Again, that's not to say that he hasn't improved, but it's not an earth shattering leap. You can't judge efficiency off such a short time span anyway, as he was the same old Crawful for Boston last year.

[dckingsfan]

And let's see if Crawford reverts somewhat to the mean. Last 7 games they are 2-5 and Crawford is shooting .355, .205 from 3 pt land and his A/TO is "down" to 2:1.

Not terrible but more of what was expected.

Ainge probably wishes he had traded him 7 games ago

[montestewart]

And let's see if Crawford reverts somewhat to the mean. Last 7 games they are 2-5 and Crawford is shooting .355, .205 from 3 pt land and his A/TO is "down" to 2:1.

Not terrible but more of what was expected.

Ainge probably wishes he had traded him 7 games ago

Agreed, I'll wait and see, but from what little I've seen and heard so far, the player that he seems to be this year might have fit in quite well as a 3rd guard (and occasional starter) with Wall/Beal.

Yeah, he's a little cocky, and maybe that hurt him in DC. But maybe you'd be cocky too if:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rONuPz7Tvw[/youtube]

PS: It's not hard to imagine a scenario where they kept some combination of Crawford, Price, Mack and/or drafted Wolters, been deeper and better at PG, and still maintained the BAE and additional pick(s) to try and strengthen the bigs rotation.

[nate33]

And let's see if Crawford reverts somewhat to the mean. Last 7 games they are 2-5 and Crawford is shooting .355, .205 from 3 pt land and his A/TO is "down" to 2:1.

Not terrible but more of what was expected.

Ainge probably wishes he had traded him 7 games ago

I hadn't checked his numbers recently. Yes, now they look a bit more in line with what I expected: the same old Jordan Crawford minus a few head scratching long 2's early in the shot clock.

[dckingsfan]

And let's see if Crawford reverts somewhat to the mean. Last 7 games they are 2-5 and Crawford is shooting .355, .205 from 3 pt land and his A/TO is "down" to 2:1.

Not terrible but more of what was expected.

Ainge probably wishes he had traded him 7 games ago

Agreed, I'll wait and see, but from what little I've seen and heard so far, the player that he seems to be this year might have fit in quite well as a 3rd guard (and occasional starter) with Wall/Beal.

Yeah, he's a little cocky, and maybe that hurt him in DC. But maybe you'd be cocky too if:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rONuPz7Tvw[/youtube]

PS: It's not hard to imagine a scenario where they kept some combination of Crawford, Price, Mack and/or drafted Wolters, been deeper and better at PG, and still maintained the BAE and additional pick(s) to try and strengthen the bigs rotation.

No disagreement that EG is a knucklehead... he just can't get it right.

Crawford's problem was (maybe still is) that he thinks of himself as a starting guard in the league and frankly Wittman and Rivers didn't see him that way.

He has been contrite - not sure who got through to him - about his time in DC and comments to the effect that he would be willing to take a reserve role.

Like Smith says, "some guys are three team guys" and I think that is Crawford.

[payitforward]

In truth, I can't figure out what is being argued about here. Jordan Crawford is definitely playing a lot better this year than last. None of the differences in his numbers is big, but he's putting up better numbers in so many categories that the overall effect is quite significant. And since numbers are numbers, no one can be arguing about that.

As to what would have happened in the past had we... whatever... with him -- I'm sorry but no matter how much Hands argues in one direction and others in a different direction, the truth is we have no idea! And we can have none.

That said, what is certainly obvious is that Ernie kept Crawford until he had absolutely no value whatever, and so we got absolutely nothing for him. Another example of brilliant work by our FO, no?

[hands11]

A journal of Crawford's final year as a Wizard. A failure of coaching and management.

They spent that entire summer and all the summer games looking for PGs and all they came up with was Price and Pargo. Mack didn't even make the cut. Then they went on to spend all the time until Wall returned rotating PGs. Price. Pargo. Livingston. Crawford, Mack. Price, Temple, Price. They even added Livingston and then dumped him 2 weeks later. They added Mack and then dumped him. The team never got in a grove long enough to develop other players or even look at other players over the summer because they were focused on finding a back up PG.

And all the time, Crawford was the best back up PG on the team and he was there before the wasted summer search even started. It wasn't just a wasted opportunity to develop Crawfords skills at PG and raise his value, they held back the entire team because there was nothing established from one game to the next. Rotating PGs like that is probably the worst thing you can do to a team trying to establish itself.

With Wall out, he should have been starting at either PG or SG, or at a min been the back up PG. Randy is the one that decided not to give him those opportunities as a first option. Instead he started lesser players and moved Crawford all over the place and had him playing behind lesser players. And through all of that moving and dissing, Crawford produced time after time. So if he got a little pissy after all that, I don't blame him.

He started the year backing up Beal with Price as the starting PG, and Beal struggled because he was a rookie and because he needed a Crawford type out there with him. Someone to create offense, drive and pull the pressure away from him so he could spot up and get his clean looks. Price was not that player. Price was also more of a spot up shooter that couldn't create his offense. And neither could run an offense. Either Crawford should have been the starting PG or they should have eased Beal in the first 10 games off the bench with Crawford at starting SG. I preferred he just started the year at PG. But how could he ? They spent all summer to land Price and Pargo. They had to save face - lol

But after only 7 games into the season Crawford started playing some PG on the floor with Pargo acting more as the SG. Why ? Because Pargo is another spot up shooting PG that can't run an offense. Crawford put up 7 dimes off the bench. Then the next game 8 dimes.
http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400277835

What does Randy do ? Moves him to starting SG with Price as PG and his dimes dropped to 2 and he goes 2-12 - lol. http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400277867

Next game, now we added Livingston so we get Livingston, Beal and Crawford all starting but that doesn't work that well. http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400277882

A few games later, Crawford back to the bench, but this time he is the back up PG with Webster on the court with him. Both score 19 and 16 pts off the bench. http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400277917

Price goes down to injury so Crawford steps in as PG getting 35 minutes off the bench playing PG and SG. GS game 22 pts 7 rebounds 8 assists http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400278003

Now he get moved to staring PG finally. And with Beal this time. Price is now injured and Livingston is the back up PG. Was this because Randy had insite. No.. He had no other crappier options to try there. Crawford's first starting game at PG, not bad http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400278027

He started at PG with Beal for 4 whole games. He has 6 or more assists in 3 of them. Two of which he scored over 20 and one of two was a triple double. http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400278076

Then Beal gets injured so now its Crawford and Livingston starting and he is still putting up good numbers. 20 pts 6-7 assists. http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400278104

Then Beal returns. Does Randy keep Crawford at PG to play with Beal again ? Nope. Instead, the newly added, previous cut Shelvin Mack is now the starting PG . Crawford was now coming off the bench again as the back up. What does he do ? 27 mins 7-15 17 pts. Next game.. 27 pts on 11-16 FGA, 6 assits 6 rebounds. What does the starting PG Mack do. Not much. http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400278130

I remember this happening like it was yesterday thinking, WTF is Randy doing to Crawford and this team. Why is he not back to starting PG after he did well there. After Randy finally stumbled into putting him here after all this time.

Crawford misses the next game with a sore ankle, when he returns the following games, now Mack is coming off the bench and Temple is staring PG with Beal. Crawford is back up SG with Mack as back up PG. Crawford goes 9 pts on 4-6 shooting, 4 assist, 2 rebounds in 24 min in his first game back. Next two games he goes 20 pts on 7-15, 7 assists, 4 rebounds in 35 min and 23 pts on 9-13, 2 assists, 6 rebounds in 43 minutes.
http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400278187

If you don't recall all of this, look at the game log. Crawford was balling and pretty damn efficiently at that. Shooting like .500 from the field over these games. Scoring 20 pts no matter where they played him. And he was playing on a hurt ankle.

Then Wall finally returned for his first games. With Wall and Beal back, Crawford rested the ankle for 4 games. When Crawford returned, he was playing SG off the bench with Wall as the PG and they did ok like that. Price returned from injury and was moved to the starting PG with Beal as Wall come off the bench. With Beal back and Wall playing, and then Nene back, the team started to win some games.
http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400278311

Two games later, Crawford scores the buzzer beater 3 to win in Portland.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiGEGkFf9Bk[/youtube]
http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400278333

Was Crawford a cancer ? Wall right there hugging him. Price first off the bench to chest bump him follow by Singleton. Wall jumping over the pile to get at him. Okafor telling him.. "what did I tell you. Do what you do" The entire team mobbing him. Nene dapping his head talking to him. Webster kicking his feet like a little kid. Ariza jumping on top of the pile. Kevin and Temple giving his dap with Kevin walking him off the court. Ves trying get in there. Randy gives him a high five and coaches rubbing his head. Beal even made brief cameo if you watch closely. He has the towel around his neck. 13 pt forth quarter.

Sweet shot. And if you watch, he is running down court before it even goes through the net. Walk off 3. DAGGER.

Then 2 games later, Wall went to staring PG. Now its Price and Crawford off the bench and Price has the ball in his hands as PG. 2nd game like this, Crawford goes 19 pts on 7-10 3-4 from 3, 3 assists in 23 minutes.
http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400278352

Next game was rough for him. 17 minutes 1-5 shooting in a lose. Then Beal went out and instead of putting Crawford back with Wall at starting SG, Temple is the starting SG. That game Crawford also went 17 minutes 1-5 shooting in a lose. Temple at starting SG..20 mins 1-2. Wall ? 30 minutes 3-12. http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400278390

Crawford is now back up SG with Price off the bench. Wall and Temple starting. At MEM and at SA. Both loses. The SA game only Wall played well. Temple was 11 min 1-4, Price 22 mins 1-7 with 5 assists, Crawford 15 mins, 3-7 and 6 pts. No assist and 1 rebound. http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400278422

Next game, Crawford is got only 5 minutes a game off the bench at back up SG with Temple starting PG and Price the back up PG with Temple getting 37 minutes and they won. Same deal the next game against NY at home. Crawford 6 minutes, Wall balling at starting PG with Temple at SG, another win. http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400278442

Then BRK.. Beal returns and is the back up SG and Crawford gets his first CD-DNP. Randy choose Price as the back up PG over Crawford when Beal returned. But it was another win. Same thing again MIL. CD-DNP. But another win. Beal went off. 10-17 in 28 min. 28 pts. http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400278487

Two more CD-DNP. Against DET. Price and Temple getting minutes over Crawford. Neither produced much and the team lost. Then the at home against TOR. Wall played bad. Price played bad. Crawford sat.

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400278501

Crawford had 4 CD-DNP that ended with this one where the fans called for him to play from the stands and where he showed his appreciation by tossing him his jersey . http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400278509

Wall played like ass. Price sucked. And yet Crawford rotted on the bench. And they could have won that game at home if they got anything from the PG slot that game.

It was 7 games from the buzzer beater in Portland with Crawford getting mobbed by the team to him getting 5 and 6 min games to 4 CD-DNP, to off the team, to him getting traded for NOTHING.

This coach and GM failed on every front regarding him. From a wasted summer looking for a back up PG, to jacking him around behind lesser players, to getting nothing for him in a trade. If he got pissy about out, I hardly blame him. I would have wanted out also. Boston was a great place for him to land. He got some time with PP and KG, and now he has a new HC. One that didn't over look that he could be the starting PG with Rondo out.

[dckingsfan]

No one thought that Crawford was a PG coming in and he was still developing his skills to that end. That Randy wanted to experiment is Randy's choice - and then you have to give Randy some credit for giving Crawford some run at PG - kind of having it both ways otherwise. Coaches have the latitude to do that are in practice day in and day out. They see things that we fans don't. Crawford's #s for that season weren't that good either - not like he was killing it.

That he puts a young player on the bench and gets this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... h-posture/

Sorry, the player has to stay engaged - throw a fit and you get benched. Wittman HAD to do this or risk losing the team. You don't give into a player when they are being a knucklehead - you can't. Especially with the recent history of this team.

Yes, EG didn't get anything back for him - huge surprise. Bottom 3 GMs in the L IMO.

And at the end of the day - Crawford pushed his way out.

[hands11]

I pray you are never a trier of facts on a jury.

[dckingsfan]

Will I be on the jury of your most recent case

[hands11]

Will I be on the jury of your most recent case

Its Heineken. Enjoy.

Then once you are all lathered up. We are taking you out back.

[dckingsfan]

Will I be on the jury of your most recent case

Its Heineken. Enjoy.

Then once you are all lathered up. We are taking you out back.

Too funny

[hands11]

So it been 26 games with Crawford as the starting PG for Boston. That's enough to get a reading.

So is Crawford playing his way into starting PG consideration ? The numbers are the numbers. Here they are.

What kind of PG is he, where does he rank, and what kind of team does he fit on ?

Where he ranks for all guard that average 6 assists / 36 and started 10 >. That was my filter to find active PGs.

He isn't playing the role of a #1 scoring focus. His usage is only 21.7 That ranks 22nd. Here are some other #s
Keep in mind, he is 4th year player playing regular PG for the first time. Drafted 27th. Just turned 25 in OCT.

ORtg 8th at 111
WS 8th at 2.6
TOV 7th at 14.4
TS% 8th at .554
eFG 9th at .504
3FG% 11th at .355%
FG% 9th at .440%
FT% 3rd at .872%
TRB% 12th at 6.0
PER 15th at 17.5
Pts/36 14th at 16.3
STL/36 16th at 1.1
TRB/36 12th at 3.8
USG 22nd at 21.7
PF 18th at 2.1

AST% 20th at 29.8 and his Ast/36 are also 20th at 6.4

The team is 13-13 since he took over at the starting PG. Keep in mind this was a team what was projected to finish last or near last in the conference. First year coach. Average roster. They weren't supposed to be winning.

So if you didn't know this was Jordan Crawford, how would you describe that player objectively using the data ?

Here would be my take.... A winner. Efficient scorer. More offensively skilled by not a chucker because his usage is low. Protects the ball ok. Low TOV but also low AST%. Not a huge assist guy. 30% is a little light but its not because he is shooting instead. USG is only 21.7 which isn't high. Sounds like someone who just manages the game and efficiently gets his pts while winning. Could score more if he shot more but he isn't. Not a high steals guy or PF guy. Seems to play a very managed game. Also pitches in his share of rebounding.

Side note. he is one of 11 players in the league this year to have a triple double. He had one last year as well. And one his rookie year. So he can fill out a stat sheet with games like 21 pts 11 rebs, 10 assists.

Yes, the player described above in Jordan Crawford. Is there a place for a player like that as a regular starting PG in this league ? He currently makes 2M with a QO of 3.2M. Seems like good value.

In a league where the star scoring PG or high assists guys get all the attention, it would be easy to not notice Crawford or see any kind of bidding war over him. But he is quietly and efficiently getting it done and winning. Seems like he would fit nicely on a team with other star scoring options. He really did land in the perfect place in order to get some playing time at PG to learn how to do it and prove he can. I could see him as a PG to a team like LAL with Kobe or Dallas with Dirk. Maybe Miami. Hey, Mario Chalmers is making 4M

[nate33]

So it been 26 games with Crawford as the starting PG for Boston. That's enough to get a reading.

So is Crawford playing his way into starting PG consideration ? The numbers are the numbers. Here they are.

What kind of PG is he, where does he rank, and what kind of team does he fit on ?

Where he ranks for all guard that average 6 assists / 36 and started 10 >. That was my filter to find active PGs.

He isn't playing the role of a #1 scoring focus. His usage is only 21.7 That ranks 22nd. Here are some other #s
Keep in mind, he is 4th year player playing regular PG for the first time. Drafted 27th. Just turned 25 in OCT.

ORtg 8th at 111
WS 8th at 2.6
TOV 7th at 14.4
TS% 8th at .554
eFG 9th at .504
3FG% 11th at .355%
FG% 9th at .440%
FT% 3rd at .872%
TRB% 12th at 6.0
PER 15th at 17.5
Pts/36 14th at 16.3
STL/36 16th at 1.1
TRB/36 12th at 3.8
USG 22nd at 21.7
PF 18th at 2.1

AST% 20th at 29.8 and his Ast/36 are also 20th at 6.4

The team is 13-13 since he took over at the starting PG. Keep in mind this was a team what was projected to finish last or near last in the conference. First year coach. Average roster. They weren't supposed to be winning.

So if you didn't know this was Jordan Crawford, how would you describe that player objectively using the data ?

Here would be my take.... A winner. Efficient scorer. More offensively skilled by not a chucker because his usage is low. Protects the ball ok. Low TOV but also low AST%. Not a huge assist guy. 30% is a little light but its not because he is shooting instead. USG is only 21.7 which isn't high. Sounds like someone who just manages the game and efficiently gets his pts while winning. Could score more if he shot more but he isn't. Not a high steals guy or PF guy. Seems to play a very managed game. Also pitches in his share of rebounding.

Side note. he is one of 11 players in the league this year to have a triple double. He had one last year as well. And one his rookie year. So he can fill out a stat sheet with games like 21 pts 11 rebs, 10 assists.

Yes, the player described above in Jordan Crawford. Is there a place for a player like that as a regular starting PG in this league ? He currently makes 2M with a QO of 3.2M. Seems like good value.

In a league where the star scoring PG or high assists guys get all the attention, it would be easy to not notice Crawford or see any kind of bidding war over him. But he is quietly and efficiently getting it done and winning. Seems like he would fit nicely on a team with other star scoring options. He really did land in the perfect place in order to get some playing time at PG to learn how to do it and prove he can. I could see him as a PG to a team like LAL with Kobe or Dallas with Dirk. Maybe Miami. Hey, Mario Chalmers is making 4M

He still strikes me as a guy who can make a bad team decent, but can't make a decent team good. He definitely has a role in this league, but it is ideally as a 3rd guard to lead the 2nd unit.

[hands11]

Was that objective from the numbers or your own personal bias thrown in ? Sounds like the later.

I know its hard to remove bias, but it would be interesting to see if people can by looking at the numbers and describing the player they think they see in the numbers.

The way I saw the numbers, the way he makes a team better is by not making them worse while contributing his pts. rebounds and assists and shooting out to the 3 line. I see no reason why that wouldn't apply to a good team as well.

I didn't go into it thinking this but after looking at the numbers and comps, I think he could replace a Mario Chambers. And that guy is on one of the best teams in the league. He could also replace Steve Blake. I also think he could play for Dallas.