Official Trade Thread - Part XXV

Post #1321 » by **Ruzious** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:13 pm

I agree with fisher - the Bucks are in full blown tank mode - likely starting all young players effective tonight. They don't want a healthy Ilyasova screwing up by turning a loss into a win.

Check out this popular Bucks fans website - devoted to the Bucks tanking http://saveourbucks.com/ . They even purchased a billboard to encourage the team to tank - and t-shirts. I'm sure the Bucks would be happy to do some sort of Ilyasova for Porter and filler trade. Porter would fit with their tank effort and be a nice trade chip for them in the offseason.

Dark Faze · Post #1322 » by **Dark Faze** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:18 pm

verbal8 wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:Trevor Ariza and Chris Singleton for Tayshaun Prince, Ed Davis and their 2014 1st.

Not a fan of taking on Prince, and I'm not convinced MEM would part with a pick considering their lack of depth and need to start planning for the future. What if we let them keep their pick and we get Bayless instead of Prince?

The Ariza for Bayless/Davis deal was well received on the trade board - it got an affirmative vote in King of the Trade Board. At this point(Ariza continuing to play well), the Wizards might even be able to dump Maynor. I wouldn't mind Prince and a pick, but I think Memphis is more inclined to deal players.

I'll take that deal if I have to, but if I were Ernie I'd be pushing for the pick.

Either way I'm solidly of the mindset that we need to trade Ariza by the deadline. We see what this team is now. You look at the second half of last year and where we are right now--we're a .500 team. As much as I want to see us in the playoffs I'm just not in favor of us locking up this core starting lineup for the next two + years .

Give me a pick or a young player for Ariza and give Otto 20+ minutes a night so we can see what we have. If we sink into the lottery we get our pick back from the Gortat trade and Witt and Ernie are probably gone.

verbal8 · Post #1323 » by **verbal8** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:54 pm

Dark Faze wrote:
verbal8 wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:
Not a fan of taking on Prince, and I'm not convinced MEM would part with a pick considering their lack of depth and need to start planning for the future. What if we let them keep their pick and we get Bayless instead of Prince?

The Ariza for Bayless/Davis deal was well received on the trade board - it got an affirmative vote in King of the Trade Board. At this point(Ariza continuing to play well), the Wizards might even be able to dump Maynor. I wouldn't mind Prince and a pick, but I think Memphis is more inclined to deal players.

I'll take that deal if I have to, but if I were Ernie I'd be pushing for the pick.

I think it is going to be very hard to get a pick for Ariza because he is an expiring contract and figures to sign for around the full MLE, so the value of his bird rights is pretty limited.

Dark Faze · Post #1324 » by **Dark Faze** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:59 pm

That's true but there are a lot of teams that don't have the cap space to sign him--mostly playoff teams that have a bad contract that they'd love to swap for Ariza. Their only ammo being picks.

Dallas, Clips, Memphis these teams and more probably don't want to wait for the off-season or care to build through the draft at this point.

fishercob · Post #1325 » by **fishercob** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:02 pm

What about:

Booker, Seraphin, Vesely, Singleton, Temple -- just saying goodbye to all of Ernie's Kids
for
Ilyasova and Zaza

Zaza is signed for two more years for $5.2M each. I would think Milwaukee would rather have the cap space, particularly with Sanders and Henson and Udoh (though I suppose he might not get the QO next year).

They'd cut whomever they didn't want and end up with nice cap flexibility with which to move forward.

When everyone is healthy, we'd have to work damn hard to make sure everyone got enough minutes -- but OTOH, when is everyone healthy? If Zaza is willing to be a team guy and play his ass off for 15 mpg for $5M/yr it could work out great.

Our front court would be rock solid, and we'd have the MLE to shore up the backcourt. We could re-sign Ariza or S&T him if we think Porter is ready to move into the rotation (and start Martell).

We could be looking next year at:
Gortat/Nene/Zaza
Ilyasova/Nene
Ariza/Otto/Webster
Beal/Webster/Rice
Wall/one of Sessions, Hinrich, Blake, Andre Miller

We have three guys capable of protecting the rim, so if we lose one center, we aren't necessarily dead to rights. Tons of shooting. Youth and upside. Assets to spare if we decide to go after a bigger fish.

Post #1326 » by **LyricalRico** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:05 pm

Dark Faze wrote:Either way I'm solidly of the mindset that we need to trade Ariza by the deadline. We see what this team is now. You look at the second half of last year and where we are right now--we're a .500 team. As much as I want to see us in the playoffs I'm just not in favor of us locking up this core starting lineup for the next two + years .

As much as I like Ariza on this team, I agree on dealing him. For a different reason, though. I think Ariza will be tougher to keep than people think. We can't go but so much over the MLE if we want to stay under the tax in future years (assuming we keep Gortat, who will be easier to keep IMO since a team would need 8-figure cap space to sign him).

From Ariza's perspective, a contender or near-contender offering a deal with $5.5M in the first year plus raises might not be all that different from us offering him a deal that starts at $7M but declines so we can avoid the tax. I'm not sure what the total difference would be, but if it's only a couple mil then he might take the haircut to somewhere he really wants to.

I actually think the original plan for Ariza was probably to use both him and Okafor to make playoff runs for two years and then let them walk so we could turn the team full over to the kiddies. But they've already had to pivot away from that due to the Okafor injury. Let's see if they also change the plan for Ariza.

pcbothwel · Post #1327 » by **pcbothwel** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:14 pm

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=m8zd8c3

A man can dream right..

Wall/Bayless/Temple
Beal/Webster/Porter/Temple
Webster/Ilyasova/Porter
Nene/Ilyasova/Davis/Booker
Gortat/Davis/Raduljica

Post #1328 » by **LyricalRico** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:17 pm

^ Give MEM Porter instead of Singleton+GRJ and you might have something.

Post #1329 » by **Ruzious** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:19 pm

Surprising bit o news from Rotoworld.com:

Ersan Ilyasova will not only make his return from an ankle injury on Friday, but should be in the starting lineup according to coach Larry Drew.

I figured he was going to be out for several weeks. This could speed up a trade.

Dark Faze · Post #1330 » by **Dark Faze** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:22 pm

You'd have to pay me to take on that Ilyasova contract right now. 4 years at 7+ mil per for a non all-star stretch 4 seems terrible.

fishercob · Post #1331 » by **fishercob** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:25 pm

Dark Faze wrote:You'd have to pay me to take on that Ilyasova contract right now. 4 years at 7+ mil per for a non all-star stretch 4 seems terrible.

Can you list 10 better contracts for frontcourt players that aren't on rookie or max deals?

Dark Faze · Post #1332 » by **Dark Faze** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:36 pm

fishercob wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:You'd have to pay me to take on that Ilyasova contract right now. 4 years at 7+ mil per for a non all-star stretch 4 seems terrible.

Can you list 10 better contracts for frontcourt players that aren't on rookie or max deals?

Context is important. When your centers are Henson and Larry Sanders you can afford to pay a finesse big like Ilyasova. If you've Anthony Davis you can pay Ryan Anderson.

We have Gortat. We might as well forfeit games with a frontcourt of Ilyasova and Gortat protecting the rim.

fishercob · Post #1333 » by **fishercob** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:47 pm

Dark Faze wrote:
fishercob wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:You'd have to pay me to take on that Ilyasova contract right now. 4 years at 7+ mil per for a non all-star stretch 4 seems terrible.

Can you list 10 better contracts for frontcourt players that aren't on rookie or max deals?

Context is important. When your centers are Henson and Larry Sanders you can afford to pay a finesse big like Ilyasova. If you've Anthony Davis you can pay Ryan Anderson.

We have Gortat. We might as well forfeit games with a frontcourt of Ilyasova and Gortat protecting the rim.

Context actually isn't important -- or at least it isn't here. Ilyasova is a good player on a reasonable contract and still relatively young. We'd be giving up very little value for him.

mhd · Post #1334 » by **mhd** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:49 pm

Marvin Williams was mentioned earlier. He might be a good FA target for our MLE. He's been shooting lights out as a stretch PF for Utah. He fits the pedigree as having talent considering he's a former high lotto pick.

Kanter+Williams for Porter+Maynor+Singleton+Ves

pcbothwel · Post #1335 » by **pcbothwel** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:55 pm

fishercob wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:You'd have to pay me to take on that Ilyasova contract right now. 4 years at 7+ mil per for a non all-star stretch 4 seems terrible.

Can you list 10 better contracts for frontcourt players that aren't on rookie or max deals?

I agree with Faze...your question is kinda loaded. Forget contracts...how about you list all starting caliber front court players that are not on Max Contracts or Rookie deals. That takes out a good chunk...

But ill try:
Horford
Millsap
R. Anderson
Brandon Wright
Jeff Green (debatable)
AK47
Taj Gibson (Debatable)
JJ Hickson
Larry Sanders
Bogut (Expensive, but starting C with declining salary)
Asik
Ibaka
Hawes
Tiago Splitter
Tim Duncan
Amir Johnson
Hibbert(Not technically the Max)
DeAndre Jordan (Debatable)
Jordan Hill
Marc Gasol

The only ones not better would be:
JaVale
Nene
Josh Smith
Randolph
David West
David Lee
Gasol
Al Jefferson...though he is doing pretty well this year
Varajao
Favors(Debatable)

Well...There's 20..Go ahead an eliminate half and your argument is still flawed. Even some of the guys I put in the lower category have an argument..

fishercob · Post #1336 » by **fishercob** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:02 pm

Perhaps I should have added the word "attainable."

pcbothwel · Post #1337 » by **pcbothwel** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:15 pm

I get your point, but then you have all these caveats to make it..I.E. Player can't be max, cant be on rookie contract, must be attainable, must have contract past this year, etc.
My point is that I made a trade that got them out of the contract for expirings and two rookies who have potential and fell in the draft making 0.5M a year. I don't see how much better they do than that. Memphis trades two backups (with Bayless being disappointing) for a versatile starting SF that perfectly fits their needs.

WizardsWorld · Post #1338 » by **WizardsWorld** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:09 pm

Dark Faze wrote:You'd have to pay me to take on that Ilyasova contract right now. 4 years at 7+ mil per for a non all-star stretch 4 seems terrible.

Agreed. That's what Ive been saying for the past year now and don't understand everyones obcession with this guy. Ya he's a stretch 4 that has shown a few flashes of decent play. But what I've seen of him he's very average and definitely would not want him on that contract. The second we get him, everyone will then complain he sucks and is overpaid.

Dark Faze · Post #1339 » by **Dark Faze** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:50 am

I hate responding to a loss but man I don't know if its smart to keep either Ariza or Gortat at this point. I love Ariza but it just doesn't seem smart locking anyone else from this core up for multiple years and Gortat is just....no, just no.

GeeWiz · Post #1340 » by **GeeWiz** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:11 pm

Dark Faze wrote:I hate responding to a loss but man I don't know if its smart to keep either Ariza or Gortat at this point. I love Ariza but it just doesn't seem smart locking anyone else from this core up for multiple years and Gortat is just....no, just no.

If we keep them, this is our ceiling. If anything, keep Ariza and sign a big like Monroe or swing for the fences on a trade for a rook or a player from last years draft.
I dont want to see Gortat back here next year.

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