TWO: Tank World Order

[Kabatnaz]

NY, Chicago and Boston have histories of winning.

Milwaukee and Minnesota don't.

TMac left because he didn't want to play in Vince's shadow.
Damon left because this team was awful.
Vince left because this team was awful
Davis was the only guy who was ignorant about Canada and left because this team was awful.

Winning basketball games and getting into the playoffs gives our guys the experience which is equally important.

Also, if weather and culture is a determining factor for free agents in coming to Canada to play; then why bother with a team here period? One guy in a draft isn't going win us a championship, we will still have to sign free agents and convince them to come play in this world class city.

Excuses are the bricks that built the house of failure.

The irony.

Those aren't excuses, it's reality.

http://www.dailywritingtips.com/what-is ... -examples/

[Danchan]

Winning keeps stars in city, they don't bring them in. Which stars were lining up to join the raptors when we won the division title.

[Kabatnaz]

Winning keeps stars in city, they don't bring them in. Which stars were lining up to join the raptors when we won the division title.

A majority of that roster was brought in through FA; I fail to see your point.

[Badonkadonk]

PS..I forgot to add San Antonio is also another beautiful warm weather city with a history of competance and success - so yes players would kill to play there as opposed to Toronto.

LA Clips are warm weather and sucked for 20 years. They start winning and sign CP3.

Got any more awesome examples of how winning isn't the biggest selling point in attracting talent?

Don't even bother. He's either too young or only follows basketball. Either way, he won't get it until it happens.

[Danchan]

NY, Chicago and Boston have histories of winning.

Milwaukee and Minnesota don't.

TMac left because he didn't want to play in Vince's shadow.
Damon left because this team was awful.
Vince left because this team was awful
Davis was the only guy who was ignorant about Canada and left because this team was awful.

Winning basketball games and getting into the playoffs gives our guys the experience which is equally important.

Also, if weather and culture is a determining factor for free agents in coming to Canada to play; then why bother with a team here period? One guy in a draft isn't going win us a championship, we will still have to sign free agents and convince them to come play in this world class city.

Excuses are the bricks that built the house of failure.

The irony.

Those aren't excuses, it's reality.

Prove? Quotes? Tmac was on record he would have went to play for magic no matter what. Damon was on record saying he wanted to play for his hometown. AD was on record that he hated the metric system. Bosh stated that he always felt different in Toronto than when he was in the states. Vince left not when the team was most horrible, he left at the time when he had a fallout with management.

[TheTorontoGM]

Also, if weather and culture is a determining factor for free agents in coming to Canada to play; then why bother with a team here period? One guy in a draft isn't going win us a championship, we will still have to sign free agents and convince them to come play in this world class city.

Bottom line is we are behind the 8 Ball to start with. We are the LA Clippers of the north, without the great city, culture and temperature.
They need to do everything right, build from the ground up with star level talent through the draft, create positive momentum and then add pieces around that talent. Then maybe you will sign some free agents in the attempt to win.
This idea that we you can do a "Miami lite" and get free agents to come here and create a winner based on some mediocre treadmill success is a pipe dream.

[Danchan]

If its like u said winning bring in stars then why didn't Tracy stayed the year later we almost made the conference final and everything was looking up. Apparently winning isn't always so high on the agenda.

Only dying star like Hakeem would come for an overpriced fee even the year everything was looking up

[Kabatnaz]

The irony.

Those aren't excuses, it's reality.

Prove? Quotes? Tmac was on record he would have went to play for magic no matter what. Damon was on record saying he wanted to play for his hometown. AD was on record that he hated the metric system. Bosh stated that he always felt different in Toronto than when he was in the states. Vince left not when the team was most horrible, he left at the time when he had a fallout with management.

You're the one making he assumptions; I can show you the team's record during those times and you can then argue with me whether or not the Raps were awful when those guys were moved. Outside of T-Mac; it's a no-brainer.

[Kabatnaz]

Also, if weather and culture is a determining factor for free agents in coming to Canada to play; then why bother with a team here period? One guy in a draft isn't going win us a championship, we will still have to sign free agents and convince them to come play in this world class city.

Bottom line is we are behind the 8 Ball to start with. We are the LA Clippers of the north, without the great city, culture and temperature.
They need to do everything right, build from the ground up with star level talent through the draft, create positive momentum and then add pieces around that talent. Then maybe you will sign some free agents in the attempt to win.
This idea that we you can do a "Miami lite" and get free agents to come here and create a winner based on some mediocre treadmill success is a pipe dream.

Toronto is consistently a top 5 road city for NBA guys and listed as one of the most multicultural cities in the world.

You start building a franchise by establishing a winning culture and that begins in the front office with your vision and mission statement.

If an organizations Mission statement and Vision is lose to win; then they've already missed the boat.

[Badonkadonk]

To those who are wearing blinders and can't conceive of a world where a top FA would sign in Toronto, let me give you a quick history lesson.

When the Toronto Blue Jays came into the league, their first home game was played in snow. I bet many of you weren't even alive yet. Let me give you some context - NOBODY, either north or south of the border EVER thought a successful American at the top of their game would sign in this wasteland of a city back then.

Do you want to know where Toronto's sports inferiority complex was born? It was born with the Blue Jays.

Guess what happened? Winning happened.

Roger Clemens. Paul Molitor. David Stewart. Ricky Henderson.

Two world championships.

Winning is ALL that matters. Players would flock to Cleveland or Milwaukee if they believed they had a chance at deep playoff runs with those teams.

So please, just stop. It's just sad

[Danchan]

Winning culture? BC is that you?
Just to humor you... you used clippers as an example. They lost for like 30 years where was the winning culture that got them this winning season and Chris Paul?

How do you establish a winning culture? A sustainable one that's not like catching lightning in a bottle. If you think getting into the playoffs in the historically bad eastern conference is any indication of success and build culture...

[Danchan]

To those who are wearing blinders and can't conceive of a world where a top FA would sign in Toronto, let me give you a quick history lesson.

When the Toronto Blue Jays came into the league, their first home game was played in snow. I bet many of you weren't even alive yet. Let me give you some context - NOBODY, either north or south of the border EVER thought a successful American at the top of their game would sign in this wasteland of a city back then.

Do you want to know where Toronto's sports inferiority complex was born? It was born with the Blue Jays.

Guess what happened? Winning happened.

Roger Clemens. Paul Molitor. David Stewart. Ricky Henderson.

Two world championships.

Winning is ALL that matters. Players would flock to Cleveland or Milwaukee if they believed they had a chance at deep playoff runs with those teams.

So please, just stop. It's just sad

Baseball doesn't have a salary cap. Next.

[Kabatnaz]

Winning culture? BC is that you?
Just to humor you... you used clippers as an example. They lost for like 30 years where was the winning culture that got them this winning season and Chris Paul?

How do you establish a winning culture? A sustainable one that's not like catching lightning in a bottle. If you think getting into the playoffs in the historically bad eastern conference is any indication of success and build culture...

Clippers have had more top 5 draft picks than almost every organization in the NBA (if not the most), but don't let that interfere with BG as fodder for your argument.

SAS have been one of the best teams in the NBA for close to 15 years and still manage to draft well and attract talent.

[Kabatnaz]

To those who are wearing blinders and can't conceive of a world where a top FA would sign in Toronto, let me give you a quick history lesson.

When the Toronto Blue Jays came into the league, their first home game was played in snow. I bet many of you weren't even alive yet. Let me give you some context - NOBODY, either north or south of the border EVER thought a successful American at the top of their game would sign in this wasteland of a city back then.

Do you want to know where Toronto's sports inferiority complex was born? It was born with the Blue Jays.

Guess what happened? Winning happened.

Roger Clemens. Paul Molitor. David Stewart. Ricky Henderson.

Two world championships.

Winning is ALL that matters. Players would flock to Cleveland or Milwaukee if they believed they had a chance at deep playoff runs with those teams.

So please, just stop. It's just sad

Baseball doesn't have a salary cap. Next.

Blue Jays didn't overpay and those guys stayed because this team was winning.

Next.

[Badonkadonk]

To those who are wearing blinders and can't conceive of a world where a top FA would sign in Toronto, let me give you a quick history lesson.

When the Toronto Blue Jays came into the league, their first home game was played in snow. I bet many of you weren't even alive yet. Let me give you some context - NOBODY, either north or south of the border EVER thought a successful American at the top of their game would sign in this wasteland of a city back then.

Do you want to know where Toronto's sports inferiority complex was born? It was born with the Blue Jays.

Guess what happened? Winning happened.

Roger Clemens. Paul Molitor. David Stewart. Ricky Henderson.

Two world championships.

Winning is ALL that matters. Players would flock to Cleveland or Milwaukee if they believed they had a chance at deep playoff runs with those teams.

So please, just stop. It's just sad

Baseball doesn't have a salary cap. Next.

This only proves you don't understand the context of the time. The Jays didn't blow other teams out of the water to sign those players. You don't financially destroy the Yankees and the Red Sox in a cap-less economic system lol.

Let me clue you in some more - it was way more inconceivable for baseball players to come to Toronto than it is for basketball players to come to Toronto. This was especially true for good old Texas guys like Clemens. It's not even close, given Toronto's urban appeal and the difference in demographics.

[Kabatnaz]

Goal!

[TheTorontoGM]

To those who are wearing blinders and can't conceive of a world where a top FA would sign in Toronto, let me give you a quick history lesson.

When the Toronto Blue Jays came into the league, their first home game was played in snow. I bet many of you weren't even alive yet. Let me give you some context - NOBODY, either north or south of the border EVER thought a successful American at the top of their game would sign in this wasteland of a city back then.

Do you want to know where Toronto's sports inferiority complex was born? It was born with the Blue Jays.

Guess what happened? Winning happened.

Roger Clemens. Paul Molitor. David Stewart. Ricky Henderson.

Two world championships.

Winning is ALL that matters. Players would flock to Cleveland or Milwaukee if they believed they had a chance at deep playoff runs with those teams.

So please, just stop. It's just sad

Baseball doesn't have a salary cap. Next.

Blue Jays didn't overpay and those guys stayed because this team was winning.

Next.

When the Jays won they were the highest or one of the highest payroll teams in the Major's. You might remember everyone complaining about how Toronto was buying the championships.
The Jays also play a sport in the summer so weather has virtually zero impact on where guys play. They also had top notch management from the beginning with a long term vision of winning a championship. They acquired and built around young talent and started their run at contention in 1985 culminating in winning the Series in 92&93. It took a long term vision, patience and planning and when they got to the cusp they brought in the big names to put them over the top.
I find it odd that you keep citing the Jays as an example, because the Raptors have done pretty much the complete opposite of what gave the Jays so much success. The Jays blueprint is the one that most pro tankers would advocate.
The Jays downfall came when they started on the same treadmill path that the Raps have perfected. Taking short cuts and using band aid solutions in attempt to field a mediocre barely "competitive" team.

[TheTorontoGM]

This only proves you don't understand the context of the time. The Jays didn't blow other teams out of the water to sign those players. You don't financially destroy the Yankees and the Red Sox in a cap-less economic system lol.

Let me clue you in some more - it was way more inconceivable for baseball players to come to Toronto than it is for basketball players to come to Toronto. This was especially true for good old Texas guys like Clemens. It's not even close, given Toronto's urban appeal and the difference in demographics.

This is just wrong. The Jays rarely had any problems in getting players to play in Toronto. You might find one somewhere in the history books...but it is not even close to what the perception in the NBA is to playing in Toronto. We are considered the Siberia of the NBA.
Since you mention dempgraphics, I would also argue that baseball players are culturally different and less inclined to be put off by bad Doritos, our currency, weird cable tv and the metric system.

[Kabatnaz]

Baseball doesn't have a salary cap. Next.

Blue Jays didn't overpay and those guys stayed because this team was winning.

Next.

When the Jays won they were the highest or one of the highest payroll teams in the Major's. You might remember everyone complaining about how Toronto was buying the championships.
The Jays also play a sport in the summer so weather has virtually zero impact on where guys play. They also had top notch management from the beginning with a long term vision of winning a championship. They acquired and built around young talent and started their run at contention in 1985 culminating in winning the Series in 92&93. It took a long term vision, patience and planning and when they got to the cusp they brought in the big names to put them over the top.
I find it odd that you keep citing the Jays as an example, because the Raptors have done pretty much the complete opposite of what gave the Jays so much success. The Jays blueprint is the one that most pro tankers would advocate.
The Jays downfall came when they started on the same treadmill path that the Raps have perfected. Taking short cuts and using band aid solutions in attempt to field a mediocre barely "competitive" team.

The Jays also had one of the best front offices in the history of professional baseball in Beaston and Gillick who put emphasis on their farm system and developed assets through strategic drafting.

What killed the the Jays was playing in the hardest division in professional sports.

[MikeM]

Do people honestly believe that no one would sign here if we were a winning team? You guys must not travel much.