PC Board All-Time Fantasy League Project - Discussion Thread

[CaliBullsFan]

I would love to participate

[TMACFORMVP]

Over on the T&T Games Forum, we've basically played these to death with all sorts of variations (full All-Time Drafts, 3 point era, keeper drafts, auction drafts, era-by-era, all-time leagues with stipulations for starters/bench players, not allowing a "consensus" top 9 players to be drafted, etc). You name it, and it's probably been done. BUT, don't think of this as me shooting down the idea. In fact, it's quite the opposite, b/c it's extremely fun, especially since everyone has a slightly different approach in building a team. I think with a new influx of posters (like the people in this thread), it could be even more fun, because in those aforementioned games, it's been pretty much the same posters playing over and over, where we could predict each others moves...

The funnest game I've probably played was an auction/keeper game. It was a game that started in the 70's (with certain years each era carefully selected). And it was auction format with everyone having 58M to bid, so it was fair game. And keepers that played in the selected years of the first era that also transferred over to the second era set years could be "kept." For example, in the game we played, Mailman was a legit superstar sort player for 3 eras. It takes ALOT of updating though for auction drafts.

Anyways... if there is a new game started, speaking from experience (I've literally played well over a dozen games on this board), there are a lot of things that need to be ironed out:

a.) Stipulations, and how that effects the draft order. If it's a full ATL, then I'd suggest having an ABBBB (or even something greater, such as double picks in the third round or 2nd depending on the # of teams that are playing). It's been rather obvious that the dude who gets Hakeem or someone similar slightly later in a one year peak setting is going to win if the draft order isn't heavily favorable towards the end of the draft (another rule that needs to be ironed out -- what years can you use for the player, 1 year, peak, 2 year peak, etc?). I've tended to favor the 3 pt era, because it's easier to compare players, but you obviously lose some legends like Russell, Oscar, Wilt, West, etc.

b.) The biggest problem with these games is judging. Frankly, it's hard to get good judges that not only know the game, but have enough time to be able to read writeups and post reasoning towards why a team would win. bastillon offered to judge, so that'd be a good start. From past experience, he always posts great reasoning in these games for why he chooses another team over another. But as a result of not getting enough good judges, we've gone to peer voting, and that tends to have it's own problems (posters pile on votes, question of if they're fully unbiased, etc). And people lose interest once they're eliminated. Again, this could be different with new people though, b/c posters will be more eager to get to the next game that's started.

Also smaller things like the amount of time to make a pick, what to do when a poster misses their time to pick (autopick v. skip). Is there a game limit for # of games played (keeping in mind the two lockout seasons). I'd also suggest the draft doesn't last more than 10 rounds, b/c anything more is a waste, especially when the most ideal rotations are only 8 players.

And oh, I wouldn't suggest trading. It can be fun, but it can also ruin the game sometimes. There's always going to be a lopsided trade that makes one team near unbeatable, and that seriously ruins the fun for other posters that were having fun drafting and building their team. If there's going to be trades, I'd suggest there being some sort of stipulation (can't trade players drafted in first 2 rounds, vetoes, something like that, etc.).

There's probably a lot more stuff...but the bottom line is when executed right with active posters, the game, especially the drafting process is a lot of fun.

[ThunderDan9]

What are thoughts on roster size? 7? 9? 10? 13? Full 15?

Anywhere from 10-13 depending on how many participants imo

I agree, that would be reasonable.
For this tournament, I would suggest only a "simple" draft (the "usual" snake-format, preferably), without further trading. Then let the teams battle judged by a competent jury. Of course, if the idea works, and it is played to the end (unfortunately enthusiasm often wanes in these kind of longer projects), one could complicate and color things for a "second edition" working from the previous experiences.

Just my two cents. I'm open to every type of formatting.

[john248]

sign me up!

[Mars_Blackmon]

I'd definitely be interested in this

[penbeast0]

I agree with Tmac about barring trades and trying to create a format more favorable to people who draft later since the top few picks tend to be more skewed from the norm in the first round than between early and late second rounders or later (for example, the difference between Magic and the #2 PG in a 3 point era draft is huge . . . the difference between the #2 and the #5 is negligible and frequently questioned -- Nash, Stockton, Kidd, Paul, Isiah, etc.) As he said, picking top 4 is a big advantage with that many very very good players to fill around your primary superstar(s). So, instead of snake, I'd go ABBBBB or the equivalent also.

I'd also be willing to judge though I am not willing to commit the time to play (I tend to be a bit obsessive about winning).

[ardee]

I'm in for sure.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[MisterHibachi]

a.) Stipulations, and how that effects the draft order. If it's a full ATL, then I'd suggest having an ABBBB (or even something greater, such as double picks in the third round or 2nd depending on the # of teams that are playing). It's been rather obvious that the dude who gets Hakeem or someone similar slightly later in a one year peak setting is going to win if the draft order isn't heavily favorable towards the end of the draft (another rule that needs to be ironed out -- what years can you use for the player, 1 year, peak, 2 year peak, etc?). I've tended to favor the 3 pt era, because it's easier to compare players, but you obviously lose some legends like Russell, Oscar, Wilt, West, etc.

How exactly does ABBBB work? I've never used it. Maybe its a common thing, but I can't find anything about it on google lol

b.) The biggest problem with these games is judging. Frankly, it's hard to get good judges that not only know the game, but have enough time to be able to read writeups and post reasoning towards why a team would win. bastillon offered to judge, so that'd be a good start. From past experience, he always posts great reasoning in these games for why he chooses another team over another. But as a result of not getting enough good judges, we've gone to peer voting, and that tends to have it's own problems (posters pile on votes, question of if they're fully unbiased, etc). And people lose interest once they're eliminated. Again, this could be different with new people though, b/c posters will be more eager to get to the next game that's started.

I hope people don't lose interest. I would welcome any and all judges, more opinions the better because it's more likely the better team will win.

Also smaller things like the amount of time to make a pick, what to do when a poster misses their time to pick (autopick v. skip). Is there a game limit for # of games played (keeping in mind the two lockout seasons). I'd also suggest the draft doesn't last more than 10 rounds, b/c anything more is a waste, especially when the most ideal rotations are only 8 players.

I think we're gonna keep it to 10 rounds and about a day or two for picking. Missing the time for your pick is a good question, auto pick would be difficult, RealGM 100 only goes 100 deep, its hard to auto pick players when there is no set list to choose from. I think it would be better to just skip them, open to suggestions tho.

And oh, I wouldn't suggest trading. It can be fun, but it can also ruin the game sometimes. There's always going to be a lopsided trade that makes one team near unbeatable, and that seriously ruins the fun for other posters that were having fun drafting and building their team. If there's going to be trades, I'd suggest there being some sort of stipulation (can't trade players drafted in first 2 rounds, vetoes, something like that, etc.).

You're right. I wanted to avoid trading, it might make it too complicated and more time consuming, plus the concerns you pointed out.

[MisterHibachi]

14 people so far, including myself. Let's get it to 16 or greater.

[CaliBullsFan]

How about ABBsnake. I am also in favor of drafting just 8 players it makes judging the teams more realistic no BS about matching up player for player. Just a set 8 man rotation

[ThunderDan9]

It's true that teams usually use a 8- (or at most 9-) man rotation in the playoffs, but I would still propose a 10-round draft.
Having only 8 players would feel a bit awkward. The talent pool is the biggest imaginable, so teams should be 10 players deep in my opinion.

[Quotatious]

Yeah, I agree with ThunderDan that 10-man rotation would be good. That way you could have a backup for every position and in the last rounds, I imagine most people would like to take Bowens, Battiers and Korvers of the world which would really be useful in some matchups.

As far as draft format is concerned, I don't really have any preference other than the fact that it can't be a normal draft in fixed order.

[O_6]

I'd definitely be interested in this.

[john248]

I'd like to see a 16 team league with 10-12 players to a team which may be good for match-ups though likely end up using your best 8 players. ABBBA draft style. 3 point era is good. 3 year peaks with a 60 game minimum each year. No trades.

viewtopic.php?f=340&t=930820

[batmana]

I would also love to participate if there are still open spots.

[DHodgkins]

Theres 16 if thats the number we were looking for. Doesn't matter to me though, I'd be fine up to 20.

[TMACFORMVP]

How exactly does ABBBB work? I've never used it. Maybe its a common thing, but I can't find anything about it on google lol

I hope people don't lose interest. I would welcome any and all judges, more opinions the better because it's more likely the better team will win.

I think we're gonna keep it to 10 rounds and about a day or two for picking. Missing the time for your pick is a good question, auto pick would be difficult, RealGM 100 only goes 100 deep, its hard to auto pick players when there is no set list to choose from. I think it would be better to just skip them, open to suggestions tho.

You're right. I wanted to avoid trading, it might make it too complicated and more time consuming, plus the concerns you pointed out.

ABBBB is simply that the last pick in the first round gets the first pick in every round after (ex./ you pick 16, 17, then 33, 49, and so on, etc.).

In the past games, we've had some moderate amount of success with 4 hours per pick, but no actual specific time slot for everyone to pick. So like....the draft would start tomorrow, and then as soon as the first person drafts, the four hour clock starts for the next pick. Then if the next guy picks within the next 10 minutes, the four hour clock resets and so on. It definitely requires being active, and/or sending lists though.

The draft runs rather smoothly though b/c everyone is excited. I was moreso referring to posters losing interest if it's peer voting, and they're still required to vote after they lose in the first round. But with judges, that isn't an issue. I wouldn't mind judging if ya'll want.

And yeah, 10 rounds is ideal.

[DHodgkins]

How exactly does ABBBB work? I've never used it. Maybe its a common thing, but I can't find anything about it on google lol

I hope people don't lose interest. I would welcome any and all judges, more opinions the better because it's more likely the better team will win.

I think we're gonna keep it to 10 rounds and about a day or two for picking. Missing the time for your pick is a good question, auto pick would be difficult, RealGM 100 only goes 100 deep, its hard to auto pick players when there is no set list to choose from. I think it would be better to just skip them, open to suggestions tho.

You're right. I wanted to avoid trading, it might make it too complicated and more time consuming, plus the concerns you pointed out.

ABBBB is simply that the last pick in the first round gets the first pick in every round after (ex./ you pick 16, 17, then 33, 49, and so on, etc.).

In the past games, we've had some moderate amount of success with 4 hours per pick, but no actual specific time slot for everyone to pick. So like....the draft would start tomorrow, and then as soon as the first person drafts, the four hour clock starts for the next pick. Then if the next guy picks within the next 10 minutes, the four hour clock resets and so on. It definitely requires being active, and/or sending lists though.

The draft runs rather smoothly though b/c everyone is excited. I was moreso referring to posters losing interest if it's peer voting, and they're still required to vote after they lose in the first round. But with judges, that isn't an issue. I wouldn't mind judging if ya'll want.

And yeah, 10 rounds is ideal.

Tell me if I'm wrong, wouldn't the 16th pick get screwed and 1st pick have the best team?

[john248]

It's just

1 - 16
16 - 1
16 - 1
16 - 1
16 - 1

[DHodgkins]

It's just

1 - 16
16 - 1
16 - 1
16 - 1
16 - 1

Hmm then I think it's the opposite, the number 1 pick kinda gets screwed after it's first pick. But if it has worked in past drafts, it's fine.