PC Board All-Time Fantasy League Project - Discussion Thread

[batmana]

Wow, if we go with that order, I got the 4th pick. I know several franchise players will be available at 4 so I should focus on the other picks... Can't wait for it.

[ThunderDan9]

I am only familiar with the snake-format draft, that seemed pretty balanced to me most of the times (granted, I only participated in yearly fantasy drafts).

Is this

Round 1: a,b,c,d,e
Round 2-10: e,d,c,b,a

really necessary?

It seems a little awkward and strange... It assumes basically that there is a HUGE gap between the first round picks (the "franchise players"), so it favors for 9 straight rounds the later positions... I'm not so sure if such a drastic measure is necessary.
But I'm impressed that everyone seems to praise this format who played in this way their own version of all-time draft, so I'm not stubbornly against it.

PS: #6 would be good... there would be some bone left, I suppose.

[Hawk]

Good luck to everyone, I'm looking forward to see everyone's team and how this goes

[ThunderDan9]

One more question: is there any kind of period limit? I mean we can choose anyone from 1946 on (not really practical, but still), or after the shot clock was introduced... someone even mentioned the 79-80 season (three-point arc, Bird and Magic come into the league).

What's the rule?

[ceiling raiser]

I'm looking forward to reading these threads. It's always fun to compare and contrast different posters' valuations and team-building philosophies. This will be an especially fun game if guys end up posting minute/shot distributions and strategies after their teams are constructed. It'll be interesting to see which role players guys settle on as well.

Good luck all!

[john248]

Nellie ball ftw. 1st time doing this. Current goal is to make a team that won't be swept. lol

[CaliBullsFan]

As in 2013? Because that is very different than say 2004

I suppose MisterHibachi means 2013. Besides, it isn't really 'very different' than 2004. No handchecking isn't such a big difference as many people make it out to be. Pre 1979 is 'very different' but between 2004 and 2013, the difference is fairly negligible as there weren't any MAJOR changes to the game made back then.

You can look at the numbers there is a very big difference be tween 2004 and 2013

Let's get this started!

This, and I pray to God that I get to play CaliBullsFan in one of my matchups. We disagree on so many topics that I'm sure it'd be fun.

Indeed

[Notanoob]

I think the draft should go ABBA, then snake, or something along those lines. Picking at the top in the first round then picking last in the next 9 seems a bit extreme. Picking last in the next two rounds should make up for the advantage having a top pick gives you.

[MisterHibachi]

Everything seems to be settled, except for draft style. I'm ready to get this started, but we need to come to an agreement on draft style. Seems people prefer either ABBB or ABBB then snake.

[ronnymac2]

Who are your judges? Or is it peer judging?

[MisterHibachi]

Who are your judges? Or is it peer judging?

A couple people have volunteered to judge. I was also hoping that in the playoffs, after GMs are eliminated, they will step in the roles of judges. Everyone is welcome to volunteer as a judge.

[john248]

ABBBABABAB

[Quotatious]

A couple people have volunteered to judge. I was also hoping that in the playoffs, after GMs are eliminated, they will step in the roles of judges. Everyone is welcome to volunteer as a judge.

Good idea. Making a poll a expecting to settle the argument based on that would screw everything up because people who are actually involved in that (GMs) would probably vote for their teams, or simply just vote and it'd obviously be very biased.

ABBBABABAB

Agreed.

[DHodgkins]

ABBBABABAB

This seems the most fair one


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[batmana]

One more question: is there any kind of period limit? I mean we can choose anyone from 1946 on (not really practical, but still), or after the shot clock was introduced... someone even mentioned the 79-80 season (three-point arc, Bird and Magic come into the league).

What's the rule?

Another question in the same line, if we set a limit for the 79-80 season (meaning you can't draft players like Bill Russell, Wilt, etc.), what do we do with Kareem for instance who played after 79-80 but someone might wanna draft him from his 70-71 season for instance - would that be allowed? Let's clear this stuff up because it might become controversial at some point.

[Quotatious]

Another question in the same line, if we set a limit for the 79-80 season (meaning you can't draft players like Bill Russell, Wilt, etc.), what do we do with Kareem for instance who played after 79-80 but someone might wanna draft him from his 70-71 season for instance - would that be allowed? Let's clear this stuff up because it might become controversial at some point.

Answering both of you guys' questions - I suggested 1979/80 season as a caesura from which on we can draft, and I think Hibachi agreed with me...Still, it's better to wait for him to confirm that.

Kareem is certainly controversial here, but it simply means that you can draft any version of him from 1979/80 to 1988/89. He'll still go pretty high, probably borderline top 10.

Personally, I'd love to draft guys like Russell, Wilt, Oscar or West, but there are too many controversial things about them - especially with guards like Oscar and West - we don't even know how effective they'd be shooting the three ball, their ballhandling might also be a problem. I'm afraid it could derail the thread so it's better to leave them out of this draft.

[batmana]

Another question in the same line, if we set a limit for the 79-80 season (meaning you can't draft players like Bill Russell, Wilt, etc.), what do we do with Kareem for instance who played after 79-80 but someone might wanna draft him from his 70-71 season for instance - would that be allowed? Let's clear this stuff up because it might become controversial at some point.

Answering both of you guys' questions - I suggested 1979/80 season as a caesura from which on we can draft, and I think Hibachi agreed with me...Still, it's better to wait for him to confirm that.

Kareem is certainly controversial here, but it simply means that you can draft any version of him from 1979/80 to 1988/89. He'll still go pretty high, probably borderline top 10.

Personally, I'd love to draft guys like Russell, Wilt, Oscar or West, but there are too many controversial things about them - especially with guards like Oscar and West - we don't even know how effective they'd be shooting the three ball, their ballhandling might also be a problem. I'm afraid it could derail the thread so it's better to leave them out of this draft.

I am fine with establishing the 1979-80 season for a caesura, was just curious about Kareem since he is indeed an interesting case. Considering the 3-ball, it is difficult even for guys from the 1980s since they didn't grow up with the 3-point shot and we can't know how efficient they would be today, let alone for guys from the pre-3-point-line era.

Just to consider something else I was thinking about - can we take players from the current season. For instance, can we draft Kevin Love from 2013-14 and assume he will average the same numbers over the entire season (after all, it is a significant sample size already but we cannot predict future injuries or some trade that might skew the numbers a little bit).

And another question - what about a season where a player was injured for some time (obviously not for too long). For instance, can we take Roy Hibbert from 2012-13 and assume that we are taking the healthy post-All-star-break-and-playoffs Hibbert instead of the Hibbert from the first half of the season who struggled mainly due to an injury that was not completely healed?

[Quotatious]

Considering the 3-ball, it is difficult even for guys from the 1980s since they didn't grow up with the 3-point shot and we can't know how efficient they would be today, let alone for guys from the pre-3-point-line era.

Yes, but the amount of 3 point shots taken by players (and teams as a direct result) is steadily increasing with every season. Jeff Van Gundy said something about that a while ago:
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... BA-Players

I don't think that the number of great midrange shooters is necessarily shrinking because of that (no reason to believe that great 3 point shooters wouldn't be as good shooting from closer distance), but clearly the 3-ball is becoming a more and more popular and effective weapon in basketball.

Now that I'm thinking about it again, I wouldn't have any problems if other guys prefer that players from the 60s or 70s be also available. I can accept that, but we'd have to prepare ourselves for much more discussion, I'm sure.

Just to consider something else I was thinking about - can we take players from the current season. For instance, can we draft Kevin Love from 2013-14 and assume he will average the same numbers over the entire season (after all, it is a significant sample size already but we cannot predict future injuries or some trade that might skew the numbers a little bit).

I believe Mister Hibachi said that a player has to play at least 75% of the 82 game season to qualify, so Love wouldn't be available, unless we did that draft after the season ends. I don't think it's necessary to wait with that because of him though. Love was still a great player in 2011 or 2012 and would be a very valuable piece for a team with a guy like Mutombo or Ben Wallace at center.

And another question - what about a season where a player was injured for some time (obviously not for too long). For instance, can we take Roy Hibbert from 2012-13 and assume that we are taking the healthy post-All-star-break-and-playoffs Hibbert instead of the Hibbert from the first half of the season who struggled mainly due to an injury that was not completely healed?

Many players play through injuries all the time in the NBA so to me it's not a major concern here. His stats for entire season should more or less even out his healthy self with his period of playing while injured.

For example, Kobe is notorious for playing through injuries, the same with Iverson, so with some guys it's really difficult to discern whether they were fully healthy or not.

[O_6]

My opinion on a few issues.

Draft Format: ABBBABABAB

- I like this one. ABBBB... seems a little strong but the fact that so many who have done a historical draft support that format is hard to ignore. A pure snake wouldn't be fair because the top handful of players are so dominant in NBA history. Pick #1 and pick #16 could be the difference between Kareem and Karl Malone. The Malone squad is so far behind after the very first round that they'll need to be given an advantage in later rounds to be able to compete with the Kareem team. So I think it should atleast start ABBB, giving the Malone team 3 picks in a row significantly ahead of the Kareem team should really help balance in out. I think after that we can return to a pure snake draft ABABAB for the next 6 picks. But if people who played this before really believe ABBBBBBBBB is better than ABBBABABAB, I'd be up for it.

Draft Eligibility: Post-Shot Clock in 1955... although I'm open to Post-3pt Line in 1980

- I'm torn on this one. If we're going to compare these teams under the 2013 style of play, it will be really hard to compare guards who played in the 60s and try and figure out how they'd play in today's game. Are we just going to assume that Jerry West would be making 2+ threes a game on a .380+ 3P% in today's era? While that seems like a fair estimate, it's a complete guess because we never saw West play with the 3pt line. And in 2013, the 3pt line is such an important part of NBA offenses. But while post-1980 may be the more fair and safe option, I just think this draft would be a lot more fun and interesting if it included guys like Wilt/Russell/70sKareem/Dr.J/Baylor/Oscar etc. I'll understand if people go against it, but I want this player pool to include post-1955 players.

Player Peaks: 3 yr peak where player plays atleast 70+ games twice or 170+ games in total

- I think this is a fair limit for how often a player needs to have played. We don't want to allow guys who played 45 games in a season to be considered in their peak. 170+ games over 3 years is a fairly easy goal to reach. '76-'78 Walton played 174 games. He never played 70 games in a season though until '86.

[MisterHibachi]

Okay so seems like most people prefer ABBB then snake, so we'll lock that in.

it'll go like this:

Round 1: a,b,c,d,e
Round 2-4: e,d,c,b,a
Round 5: a,b,c,d,e
Round 6: e,d,c,b,a
Round 7: a,b,c,d,e
and so on.

For guys like Kareem, you can only choose seasons in the 80s-on. Quotatious said way back, and I agreed with his point, that it'll be too controversial to come to an agreement on how Jerry West or Bill Russell would translate to the modern game with the 3pt line. If enough people are in support of including the older legends, we can change that up too.