Why The Raptors May Already Be Done With Their Rebuild

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Why The Raptors May Already Be Done With Their Rebuild 

Post#1 » by RealGM Articles » Wed Jan 1, 2014 6:51 pm

"[Suns GM Ryan McDonough] and I, when we talked about players, probably 99 percent of the time we agreed on what we were thinking," Jeff Hornacek said. "All the coaches that I talked to said that the biggest thing is, 'When you get a shot, make sure that you and the GM are on the same page." -- ESPN Los Angeles


Coming into the season, Dwane Casey’s career looked on its last legs. In his second stint as an NBA head coach, he had a 57-91 record with the Toronto Raptors. Bryan Colangelo, the general manager who hired him, had been fired in the offseason. Masai Ujiri didn’t have a prior relationship with Casey; most expected him to bring in his own people. When the Raptors opened with a 6-12 record, Casey’s fate seemed sealed. Few unsuccessful coaches get a third chance.


Some thought Ujiri waived the white flag in December, when he traded Rudy Gay to the Sacramento Kings for Greivis Vasquez, Patrick Patterson and John Salmons. A year earlier, Colangelo had acquired Gay from the Memphis Grizzlies in a last-ditch effort to save his job. Instead, Toronto missed the playoffs while Memphis made the Western Conference Finals. So far, the Raptors have an 8-3 record without Gay. They look like a much better team.


Casey was criticized for allowing Gay to dominate the ball, but there wasn’t much he could do. In the NBA, salary dictates playing time. Gay was making $17.9 million; he wasn’t coming off the bench. Since he isn’t a great shooter and he likes to hold the ball, it tends to die in his hands. In Toronto, he was taking 18.5 shots a game and making them at a 38% clip. It’s not a huge surprise that redistributing those possessions has made his old team better.  


Terrence Ross, the No. 8 pick in 2012, has been the biggest beneficiary. An extremely athletic 6’6 195 shooting guard, he averaged only 17 minutes a game as a rookie. Ross had the reputation of a great shooter and a great dunker coming out of Washington, but limited playing time and touches in his first season made it hard for him to get in a rhythm. In the last 10 games, he is averaging 14 points, 4 rebounds and 1 assist on 45% shooting.


With Gay gone, Kyle Lowry has more offensive responsibility. At 27, Lowry is in his prime, a 6’0 205 bulldog who can score, shoot, defend, rebound and pass. He has never made an All-Star team, but he is a starting-caliber point guard. When Lowry is given space to attack off the dribble, he can create a decent shot for himself or one of his teammates. In the last 10 games, he is averaging 17 points, 8 assists and 5 rebounds on 43% shooting.


Upfront, Amir Johnson has flourished in Gay’s absence. Drafted out of high school in 2005, he is only starting to reach his peak in his ninth NBA season. Johnson is a monster on the pick-and-roll, an athletic 6’9 210 power forward who can play above the rim and stretch the floor. In the last 10 games, he is averaging 12 points, 8.5 rebounds, 1 block and 1 steal on 60% shooting. He is the rare big man who helps his team on both ends of the floor.


Combine those three with Jonas Valanciunas and DeMar DeRozan and the Raptors have a quality first unit. They start five excellent athletes, all of whom can score. They can get out and run and they have options in the half-court - pick-and-rolls with Valanciunas and Johnson, isolations for DeRozan and Lowry, running Ross off screens. The keys for them will be buckling down on defense and avoiding turnovers, two bugaboos for young teams.


Dealing Gay wasn’t just addition by subtraction. Ujiri turned him into a bench -- a 6’6 point guard (Vasquez), a 6’6 wing (Salmons) and a 6’9 stretch 4 (Patterson) with NBA experience. All three have been productive starters at points in their careers; they can match-up with the vast majority of second units. The combination of the Sacramento refugees and the interior muscle of Tyler Hansbrough means Toronto’s reserves are no longer bleeding points.


All of a sudden, Casey has a rotation he can work with. The Raptors are a versatile team with lineup options on their bench. They can play Lowry and Vasquez together or go big on the perimeter with Vasquez, Ross and Salmons. They can run pick-and-pops with Patterson or use him to open up the floor for pick-and-rolls. Toronto 2.0 puts pressure on the opponent for all 48 minutes. In the regular season, a strong second-unit keeps you in games and picks up wins.


Since the trade, the Raptors have been in almost every game and have not had a bad loss. They lost twice to the San Antonio Spurs and had an OT loss to the Charlotte Bobcats. Five of their eight wins have come on the road, including three out West. In consecutive games, they beat the Mavericks in Dallas and the Thunder in Oklahoma City. They were the first team to get a win in Chesapeake Energy Arena this season. The rebuild may already be over.


The average age of their starting five is 24 -- DeRozan is 24, Ross is 22 and Valanciunas is 21. There’s been speculation about Ujiri selling off assets and tanking for the 2014 draft, but the point of lottery picks is to acquire under-25 starters in the first place. With only $41.4 million in salary committed for next season, Ujiri can be aggressive. Do the Thunder want to pay Reggie Jackson? He could offer the Raptors' first rounder in 2014 and the Knicks' first in 2016.


If they stay healthy, Toronto can make a run at the No. 3 seed, moving Casey from hot seat to Coach of the Year candidate. That’s how thin the line can be in this business. Casey started coaching in 1979 and has been in the NBA since 1994; there’s nothing he can’t figure out on the court. Basketball is basic geometry, not applied calculus. Like any coach, if he has the players, he can win games. After two seasons with Colangelo, one with Ujiri may save his career.

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Re: Why The Raptors May Already Be Done With Their Rebuild 

Post#2 » by Lord_Zedd » Wed Jan 1, 2014 8:14 pm

Hang that Atlantic Division Banner up!

Raps in 4
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Re: Why The Raptors May Already Be Done With Their Rebuild 

Post#3 » by djxsremix » Wed Jan 1, 2014 8:55 pm

It's so nice to finally have a team worth talking about. It's been a painful ride to be a Raptor fan.
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Re: Why The Raptors May Already Be Done With Their Rebuild 

Post#4 » by Ian4 » Wed Jan 1, 2014 9:54 pm

Good article though this trade is a head scratcher.
"Do the Thunder want to pay Reggie Jackson? He could offer the Raptors' first rounder in 2014 and the Knicks' first in 2016."
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Re: Why The Raptors May Already Be Done With Their Rebuild 

Post#5 » by BCbudraptorfan » Wed Jan 1, 2014 11:07 pm

Ian4 wrote:Good article though this trade is a head scratcher.
"Do the Thunder want to pay Reggie Jackson? He could offer the Raptors' first rounder in 2014 and the Knicks' first in 2016."


hahaha 2 first rounders for reggie jackson to sit on the bench thats insane :lol:
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Re: Why The Raptors May Already Be Done With Their Rebuild 

Post#6 » by RandomRaptorfan » Wed Jan 1, 2014 11:41 pm

Did someone get paid to write this drivel?
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Re: Why The Raptors May Already Be Done With Their Rebuild 

Post#7 » by malgus » Thu Jan 2, 2014 12:15 am

yeah I don't get the reggie jackson thing. Like isn't he a baseball player? There's no reggie jackson worth 2 first round picks in the NBA

There is some merit to the rest of the article in that the raptors are playing better without Gay hogging the ball and their core is young.
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Re: Why The Raptors May Already Be Done With Their Rebuild 

Post#8 » by The Watcher » Thu Jan 2, 2014 1:12 am

It's a good article, except for the Reggie Jackson thing as many others have noted. You dont trade even one first rounder for him (especially the Knicks pick, which could be top-5 as the Kinicks are bad now and will probably get worse with Melo likely leaving, the team aging, and with no great young players or upcoming draft picks).

Good thing is that Ujiri knows better. EOY candidate (again), that's for sure.
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Re: Why The Raptors May Already Be Done With Their Rebuild 

Post#9 » by amaranth3 » Thu Jan 2, 2014 1:47 am

one of the worst travesties of Timberwolves history (which is really saying something) was when they fired Casey --when they were slotted in the 8th seed in the west-- and replaced him with, wait for it, Randy Whitman.
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Re: Why The Raptors May Already Be Done With Their Rebuild 

Post#10 » by tOvOnto » Thu Jan 2, 2014 2:53 am

-who read this article before the Pacers @ Raptors game today?
cause the young dino has officially taken out 2 top-3 seed teams (OKC & PACERS)

DONT KILL ME MAN!! the author is high off some chemicals.. i thought he prolly mistakened it for russell westbrook for 2 firsts..
LMAOOOO what a joke.. more like dwight buycks for reggieee!!!

BCbudraptorfan wrote:
Ian4 wrote:Good article though this trade is a head scratcher.
"Do the Thunder want to pay Reggie Jackson? He could offer the Raptors' first rounder in 2014 and the Knicks' first in 2016."


hahaha 2 first rounders for reggie jackson to sit on the bench thats insane :lol:
-OvO
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Re: Why The Raptors May Already Be Done With Their Rebuild 

Post#11 » by decu21 » Thu Jan 2, 2014 3:09 am

i understand his trade proposal for reggie jackson, hes a legit starter for most team and with lowry expiring the future is uncertain. rj is george hill type of player. 1 first round is enough not 2
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Re: Why The Raptors May Already Be Done With Their Rebuild 

Post#12 » by jd4 » Thu Jan 2, 2014 3:29 pm

Do the Thunder want to pay Reggie Jackson? He could offer the Raptors' first rounder in 2014 and the Knicks' first in 2016.


Not sure but I seem to remember that the 1st rounder they got from the Knicks for Bargnani is the lower of New York's pick or Denver's pick in 2016. It was somehow related to the Carmelo trade. The Raptors also got New York's 2nd round pick in 2014 and 2017. If the Knicks keep floundering, that 2nd round pick this year may be in the top 10 of the 2nd round.
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Re: Why The Raptors May Already Be Done With Their Rebuild 

Post#13 » by ontnut » Thu Jan 2, 2014 4:36 pm

Reggie may be worth the Knicks pick in 2016 (There's a swap option for Denver, so the likelihood is that it will be a mid 1st round at best), but he's certainly not worth two mid 1st rounders at this point.

He's young and can play, and his per-36 numbers are pretty nice (18 - 5 - 5 - 1 stl on average percentages, 17 PER), and he's shown he can do it when given minutes, even in the playoffs. He would fit in nicely with our core, but if the intention is to re-sign Lowry, I'm not sure where he really fits in.
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Re: Why The Raptors May Already Be Done With Their Rebuild 

Post#14 » by themeccamsg » Fri Jan 3, 2014 2:49 pm

The Raptors should still be looking to tank. No way they sustain these fluky wins. Dolan should be all over that Lowry trade because his play is off the charts right now. He's a trade proposal:

To New York:
DeMar DeRozan ($9,500,000 for 4 years)
Amir Johnson ($6,500,000 for 2 years)
Kyle Lowry ($6,210,000 EXPIRING)

To Toronto:
Amare Stoudemire ($21,679,893 for 2 years)
Raymond Felton ($3,637,073 for 3 years)
Metta World Peace ($1,591,650 for 2 years, WAIVED)
2019 2nd Round Pick

There is no way the Raptors are able to retain Lowry. He has become a star PG and will not want to resign just like other stars have shown. No one wants to stay in the cold, high-tax paying, hockey-centric Canada with very few basketball fans (see Gay, Bargnani, Bosh, Carter, McGrady, Billups, etc.) On the flipside, the Raptors receive Stoudemire via trade, a legit star PF who's starting to play like his old self. The Raptors haven't made the playoffs or had a star since Bosh played PF, which will excite fans and help them increase some well-needed ticket revenue. Felton and Vasquez can take over PG duties for the Raptors. MWP can be waived immediately but is in the trade for roster size and salary reasons.

Raptors have never appreciated DeMar DeRozan and he's been long rumoured to be on the trade block. This is where the Knicks can step and get a good young wing player to play with Carmelo. DeMar will leave Canada at the end of his contract anyway, so again, the Raptors can extract some value in this deal. Overall this deal also helps the team tank for Wiggins, the only star that MAY decide to resign in his hometown Toronto.
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Re: Why The Raptors May Already Be Done With Their Rebuild 

Post#15 » by Lamphead » Fri Jan 3, 2014 4:40 pm

Is this a serious post? As a Raptors fan I'd rather get nothing than that package..I'd rather play Vasquez 48 minutes than play Felton ever. Stoudemire is playing like a mid level exception contract now. That still makes him the worst contract in the league.

themeccamsg wrote:The Raptors should still be looking to tank. No way they sustain these fluky wins. Dolan should be all over that Lowry trade because his play is off the charts right now. He's a trade proposal:

To New York:
DeMar DeRozan ($9,500,000 for 4 years)
Amir Johnson ($6,500,000 for 2 years)
Kyle Lowry ($6,210,000 EXPIRING)

To Toronto:
Amare Stoudemire ($21,679,893 for 2 years)
Raymond Felton ($3,637,073 for 3 years)
Metta World Peace ($1,591,650 for 2 years, WAIVED)
2019 2nd Round Pick

There is no way the Raptors are able to retain Lowry. He has become a star PG and will not want to resign just like other stars have shown. No one wants to stay in the cold, high-tax paying, hockey-centric Canada with very few basketball fans (see Gay, Bargnani, Bosh, Carter, McGrady, Billups, etc.) On the flipside, the Raptors receive Stoudemire via trade, a legit star PF who's starting to play like his old self. The Raptors haven't made the playoffs or had a star since Bosh played PF, which will excite fans and help them increase some well-needed ticket revenue. Felton and Vasquez can take over PG duties for the Raptors. MWP can be waived immediately but is in the trade for roster size and salary reasons.

Raptors have never appreciated DeMar DeRozan and he's been long rumoured to be on the trade block. This is where the Knicks can step and get a good young wing player to play with Carmelo. DeMar will leave Canada at the end of his contract anyway, so again, the Raptors can extract some value in this deal. Overall this deal also helps the team tank for Wiggins, the only star that MAY decide to resign in his hometown Toronto.
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Re: Why The Raptors May Already Be Done With Their Rebuild 

Post#16 » by th1 » Fri Jan 3, 2014 6:09 pm

themeccamsg wrote:The Raptors should still be looking to tank. No way they sustain these fluky wins. Dolan should be all over that Lowry trade because his play is off the charts right now. He's a trade proposal:

To New York:
DeMar DeRozan ($9,500,000 for 4 years)
Amir Johnson ($6,500,000 for 2 years)
Kyle Lowry ($6,210,000 EXPIRING)

To Toronto:
Amare Stoudemire ($21,679,893 for 2 years)
Raymond Felton ($3,637,073 for 3 years)
Metta World Peace ($1,591,650 for 2 years, WAIVED)
2019 2nd Round Pick

There is no way the Raptors are able to retain Lowry. He has become a star PG and will not want to resign just like other stars have shown. No one wants to stay in the cold, high-tax paying, hockey-centric Canada with very few basketball fans (see Gay, Bargnani, Bosh, Carter, McGrady, Billups, etc.) On the flipside, the Raptors receive Stoudemire via trade, a legit star PF who's starting to play like his old self. The Raptors haven't made the playoffs or had a star since Bosh played PF, which will excite fans and help them increase some well-needed ticket revenue. Felton and Vasquez can take over PG duties for the Raptors. MWP can be waived immediately but is in the trade for roster size and salary reasons.

Raptors have never appreciated DeMar DeRozan and he's been long rumoured to be on the trade block. This is where the Knicks can step and get a good young wing player to play with Carmelo. DeMar will leave Canada at the end of his contract anyway, so again, the Raptors can extract some value in this deal. Overall this deal also helps the team tank for Wiggins, the only star that MAY decide to resign in his hometown Toronto.


:lol: :lol: Stop being delusional. Your trade scenario is beyond stupid. Why would TOR give NY best players while getting back a bunch of over payed garbage and a second round pick in 2019 ? :D DeRozan was always loved and respected in TOR. He grew up in TOR. He got all the freedom to grow as a player.
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Re: Why The Raptors May Already Be Done With Their Rebuild 

Post#17 » by themeccamsg » Fri Jan 3, 2014 7:24 pm

th1 wrote:
themeccamsg wrote:The Raptors should still be looking to tank. No way they sustain these fluky wins. Dolan should be all over that Lowry trade because his play is off the charts right now. He's a trade proposal:

To New York:
DeMar DeRozan ($9,500,000 for 4 years)
Amir Johnson ($6,500,000 for 2 years)
Kyle Lowry ($6,210,000 EXPIRING)

To Toronto:
Amare Stoudemire ($21,679,893 for 2 years)
Raymond Felton ($3,637,073 for 3 years)
Metta World Peace ($1,591,650 for 2 years, WAIVED)
2019 2nd Round Pick

There is no way the Raptors are able to retain Lowry. He has become a star PG and will not want to resign just like other stars have shown. No one wants to stay in the cold, high-tax paying, hockey-centric Canada with very few basketball fans (see Gay, Bargnani, Bosh, Carter, McGrady, Billups, etc.) On the flipside, the Raptors receive Stoudemire via trade, a legit star PF who's starting to play like his old self. The Raptors haven't made the playoffs or had a star since Bosh played PF, which will excite fans and help them increase some well-needed ticket revenue. Felton and Vasquez can take over PG duties for the Raptors. MWP can be waived immediately but is in the trade for roster size and salary reasons.

Raptors have never appreciated DeMar DeRozan and he's been long rumoured to be on the trade block. This is where the Knicks can step and get a good young wing player to play with Carmelo. DeMar will leave Canada at the end of his contract anyway, so again, the Raptors can extract some value in this deal. Overall this deal also helps the team tank for Wiggins, the only star that MAY decide to resign in his hometown Toronto.


:lol: :lol: Stop being delusional. Your trade scenario is beyond stupid. Why would TOR give NY best players while getting back a bunch of over payed garbage and a second round pick in 2019 ? :D DeRozan was always loved and respected in TOR. He grew up in TOR. He got all the freedom to grow as a player.


Yeah and then he will have the FREEDOM to leave Toronto when he is a free agent just as Lowry will. Then this trade will start looking good because these assets are better than zip, which is what Toronto always seems to get for their stars.
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Re: Why The Raptors May Already Be Done With Their Rebuild 

Post#18 » by th1 » Fri Jan 3, 2014 8:39 pm

TOR have 3 full years before they can worry about DD contract. And Amir loves Toronto. With the way Lowry is balling, he is clearly worth more than a second round pick in 2019 :lol: . You mistake Masai for some idiot.
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Re: Why The Raptors May Already Be Done With Their Rebuild 

Post#19 » by themeccamsg » Fri Jan 3, 2014 10:19 pm

th1 wrote:TOR have 3 full years before they can worry about DD contract. And Amir loves Toronto. With the way Lowry is balling, he is clearly worth more than a second round pick in 2019 :lol: . You mistake Masai for some idiot.


Yes and as the 3 years go by, his value will keep dropping. Better to act early. How do you know Amir likes Toronto? Do you know him personally? Lowry is playing well, but the MARKET dictates the price. If he is pretty much guaranteed to leave as a free agent, this deal is better than getting absolutely nothing. Why don't people understand this.
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Re: Why The Raptors May Already Be Done With Their Rebuild 

Post#20 » by th1 » Fri Jan 3, 2014 10:39 pm

you funny guy. You can forget about this trade. Do you really believe anyone would be stupid enough to trade three best players for Amares contract and second round pick in 5 years ? Does this trade really makes sense to you ? Amir, DeRozan and Lowry for Amare and second round pick in 5 years ? Not even a single first round pick or young prospect like THJ ? TOR would better let Lowry go than making a favour to NYK. :lol: DeMars value will only grow since he is getting better every season.

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