Andrew Wiggins is not a lock at #1?

[CBB_Fan]

It is interesting to see how many people are willing to downgrade Wiggins as if he has bee playing horrible. Mostly because people has concerns on his handle. For one, a handle is one of things that can be improved. For two, his handle isn't that bad. He's averaging 1.8 TOs, which is an okay value and actually less than what Parker has averaged (2.3). Dribbling the ball slightly too high or being slightly uncertain on with his dribble isn't a huge issue to me.

That isn't to say Wiggins is faultless. It would be nice to see get more touches and be more aggressive. Despite my last paragraph, he could tighten up his handle.

But he's averaging 18.2 PPG since coming back from the Bahamas, and has shown a lot more positives than negatives. Since then he has gone 29-32 from the FT line, played exceptional defense, and had a signature alpha dog night. Still don't think you can walk away saying "not impressed" or take away that he isn't in the running for a #1 pick (though Embiid and Parker are still right with him).

[OkcMagic]

Quick question to the more knowing: What makes Embiid so special that he jumped all the way to number one? Sorry the only game I saw was Kansas/Duke and he did look impressive but not more so Parker/wiggy

[sikma42]

It is interesting to see how many people are willing to downgrade Wiggins as if he has bee playing horrible. Mostly because people has concerns on his handle. For one, a handle is one of things that can be improved. For two, his handle isn't that bad. He's averaging 1.8 TOs, which is an okay value and actually less than what Parker has averaged (2.3). Dribbling the ball slightly too high or being slightly uncertain on with his dribble isn't a huge issue to me.

That isn't to say Wiggins is faultless. It would be nice to see get more touches and be more aggressive. Despite my last paragraph, he could tighten up his handle.

But he's averaging 18.2 PPG since coming back from the Bahamas, and has shown a lot more positives than negatives. Since then he has gone 29-32 from the FT line, played exceptional defense, and had a signature alpha dog night. Still don't think you can walk away saying "not impressed" or take away that he isn't in the running for a #1 pick (though Embiid and Parker are still right with him).

I agree with this...I'm still really high on Wiggins, it's just that I'm also really high on Embiid. It's a really tough choice(Parker isn't in the convo for me because I can't see him being the best player in the league and I could see those guys becoming that). But to act like Wiggins is not showing some stuff is disingenuous, guy is a rare talent.

[I_amWEB]

Floor: Terrance Ross

Middle: Richard Jefferson (Prime)

Ceiling: Andre Iguodala

Wiggins is going to be the best one on one defender in the whole draft because of his athleticism. Without a consistent jumpshot he will struggle in the NBA to score, he'll have to drive more and he isn't strong enough to power through bigger guys in the NBA. His strongest offensive weapon that I think will translate is fastbreaks.

[sikma42]

Floor: Terrance Ross

Middle: Richard Jefferson (Prime)

Ceiling: Andre Iguodala

Wiggins is going to be the best one on one defender in the whole draft because of his athleticism. Without a consistent jumpshot he will struggle in the NBA to score, he'll have to drive more and he isn't strong enough to power through bigger guys in the NBA. His strongest offensive weapon that I think will translate is fastbreaks.

He doesn't play similarly to Terrance Ross or Iggy. Ross could shoot and Iggy was a Natural playmaker. Wiggins is also a superior athlete, better frame and more talented than Jefferson. I think Jefferson(prime) is his floor.

[E-Balla]

Quick question to the more knowing: What makes Embiid so special that he jumped all the way to number one? Sorry the only game I saw was Kansas/Duke and he did look impressive but not more so Parker/wiggy

The thing I saw that made me a believer in Embiid was his post game. He already has a ambidextrous hook shot (more than you can say about Dwight) and some amazing shakes and up and unders. Combine that with his size (7-0, 250, 7-5 wingspan), quickness (2 steals per 40), and the fact that he just started playing 2 years ago (so things like his high foul numbers are expected) and he can be the best in the league on day. I wouldn't take him first unless he's putting up 15/11 or something later on in the year because you can't take someone that raw when Jabari, Exum, etc. are finished products and still on the board. He's probably 2nd for me right now.

[OkcMagic]

I always wondered why none of these top picks ever came out and said where they wanted to go and to tell other teams not to draft them, like for example if I'm wiggins and Milwaukee or Cleveland have the number one pick, I would tell them not to draft because I don't want waste my time in those organizations

[rockmanslim]

I always wondered why none of these top picks ever came out and said where they wanted to go and to tell other teams not to draft them, like for example if I'm wiggins and Milwaukee or Cleveland have the number one pick, I would tell them not to draft because I don't want waste my time in those organizations

Spoiler:

(that's not really steve francis btw. at least i don't think it's him.....or is it? )

[Jazzfan12]

Wiggins just looks so meh in every game.

His jumper is completely broken and he's out of control on every drive to the basket.

[TheSuzerain]

KU as a whole has major problems.

Wiggins has his weaknesses, and they are on full display. But KU is utterly failing to showcase his strengths.

A bit disappointed in Bill Self.

[TheSuzerain]

Quick question to the more knowing: What makes Embiid so special that he jumped all the way to number one? Sorry the only game I saw was Kansas/Duke and he did look impressive but not more so Parker/wiggy

The thing I saw that made me a believer in Embiid was his post game. He already has a ambidextrous hook shot (more than you can say about Dwight) and some amazing shakes and up and unders. Combine that with his size (7-0, 250, 7-5 wingspan), quickness (2 steals per 40), and the fact that he just started playing 2 years ago (so things like his high foul numbers are expected) and he can be the best in the league on day. I wouldn't take him first unless he's putting up 15/11 or something later on in the year because you can't take someone that raw when Jabari, Exum, etc. are finished products and still on the board. He's probably 2nd for me right now.

How can you call Exum a finished product having played less high level basketball than the others?

[sikma42]

KU as a whole has major problems.

Wiggins has his weaknesses, and they are on full display. But KU is utterly failing to showcase his strengths.

A bit disappointed in Bill Self.

It not KUs job to showcase Wiggins strengths. I think self is doing a good job coaching, he just messed up putting this team together. Wiggins in position to do thingse very night and he doesn't do anything. This entire game the bigs were getting doubled...defense paid very little attention to Wiggins and he couldn't make anything happen. It happens game after game.

It's not like Self isn't getting Wiggins easy baskets. He gets him almost an opp a game. He is getting open jumpers, where he could decide to take the open lane. It's on Wiggins for not being able to shoot from the perimeter or pass.

The one who should be disappointed is Embiid. These guards are doing him zero favors. Bad entry passes, not enough drop off passes, poor cuts off the ball and they all lack the ability to shoot open kick out 3s. Yes, this all includes Wiggins today.

[TheSuzerain]

KU as a whole has major problems.

Wiggins has his weaknesses, and they are on full display. But KU is utterly failing to showcase his strengths.

A bit disappointed in Bill Self.

It not KUs job to showcase Wiggins strengths. I think self is doing a good job coaching, he just messed up putting this team together. Wiggins in position to do thingse very night and he doesn't do anything. This entire game the bigs were getting doubled...defense paid very little attention to Wiggins and he couldn't make anything happen. It happens game after game.

It's not like Self isn't getting Wiggins easy baskets. He gets him almost an opp a game. He is getting open jumpers, where he could decide to take the open lane. It's on Wiggins for not being able to shoot from the perimeter or pass.

The one who should be disappointed is Embiid. These guards are doing him zero favors. Bad entry passes, not enough drop off passes, poor cuts off the ball and they all lack the ability to shoot open kick out 3s. Yes, this all includes Wiggins today.

Of course it is KU's job to leverage Wiggins' strengths.

Wiggins has basically become a jumpshooter. That's like making Jabari Parker into a defensive specialist.

[sikma42]

KU as a whole has major problems.

Wiggins has his weaknesses, and they are on full display. But KU is utterly failing to showcase his strengths.

A bit disappointed in Bill Self.

It not KUs job to showcase Wiggins strengths. I think self is doing a good job coaching, he just messed up putting this team together. Wiggins in position to do thingse very night and he doesn't do anything. This entire game the bigs were getting doubled...defense paid very little attention to Wiggins and he couldn't make anything happen. It happens game after game.

It's not like Self isn't getting Wiggins easy baskets. He gets him almost an opp a game. He is getting open jumpers, where he could decide to take the open lane. It's on Wiggins for not being able to shoot from the perimeter or pass.

The one who should be disappointed is Embiid. These guards are doing him zero favors. Bad entry passes, not enough drop off passes, poor cuts off the ball and they all lack the ability to shoot open kick out 3s. Yes, this all includes Wiggins today.

Of course it is KU's job to leverage Wiggins' strengths.

Wiggins has basically become a jumpshooter. That's like making Jabari Parker into a defensive specialist.

No..it's KUs job to make Kansas the best basketball team possible. Going to a certain players strengths isn't always in line with that. Wiggins is playing like a slasher when he plays aggressive. The fact that he isn't always aggressive isn't on Self. You want him in the post, that isn't in Kansas best interest as a team because they have better post players. Wanna play run in gun, it isn't always gonna work, and right now that is pretty much Wiggins only strength. Wiggins should be able to attack off the doubles that Embiid is seeing but it seems like he has forgotten how to cut to open spots.

Wiggins has ample opportunity to handle the ball and do whatever he needs to do to get off. He needs more floor spacing the same way the bigs do...however, that is a personnel problem and I don't mind blaming that on Self. They need a shooter to balance everything out. Problem with that is Mason is as low Iq as they come and I don't know if he has the balls to bench Selden or if they even has a player on the bench that could even fill in for Selden and light I yup.

[E-Balla]

Quick question to the more knowing: What makes Embiid so special that he jumped all the way to number one? Sorry the only game I saw was Kansas/Duke and he did look impressive but not more so Parker/wiggy

The thing I saw that made me a believer in Embiid was his post game. He already has a ambidextrous hook shot (more than you can say about Dwight) and some amazing shakes and up and unders. Combine that with his size (7-0, 250, 7-5 wingspan), quickness (2 steals per 40), and the fact that he just started playing 2 years ago (so things like his high foul numbers are expected) and he can be the best in the league on day. I wouldn't take him first unless he's putting up 15/11 or something later on in the year because you can't take someone that raw when Jabari, Exum, etc. are finished products and still on the board. He's probably 2nd for me right now.

How can you call Exum a finished product having played less high level basketball than the others?

Watch his game. He's too good of a passer/ball handler for me to not say he's polished. He does need a jump shot but he'll be good from day one.

[skones]

KU as a whole has major problems.

Wiggins has his weaknesses, and they are on full display. But KU is utterly failing to showcase his strengths.

A bit disappointed in Bill Self.

It not KUs job to showcase Wiggins strengths. I think self is doing a good job coaching, he just messed up putting this team together. Wiggins in position to do thingse very night and he doesn't do anything. This entire game the bigs were getting doubled...defense paid very little attention to Wiggins and he couldn't make anything happen. It happens game after game.

It's not like Self isn't getting Wiggins easy baskets. He gets him almost an opp a game. He is getting open jumpers, where he could decide to take the open lane. It's on Wiggins for not being able to shoot from the perimeter or pass.

The one who should be disappointed is Embiid. These guards are doing him zero favors. Bad entry passes, not enough drop off passes, poor cuts off the ball and they all lack the ability to shoot open kick out 3s. Yes, this all includes Wiggins today.

Of course it is KU's job to leverage Wiggins' strengths.

Wiggins has basically become a jumpshooter. That's like making Jabari Parker into a defensive specialist.

Wiggins only real strength right now is his athleticism. He doesn't have the handle to penetrate consistently and he doesnt have a jump shot to keep the defense honest. Those who say Self "isn't using him correctly" are simply making excuses. Great players make things happen for themselves and others, period. Wiggins flat out isn't.

[CablexDeadpool]

Wiggins only real strength right now is his athleticism. He doesn't have the handle to penetrate consistently and he doesnt have a jump shot to keep the defense honest. Those who say Self "isn't using him correctly" are simply making excuses. Great players make things happen for themselves and others, period. Wiggins flat out isn't.

This.

Wiggins just doesn't have the ball skills to take advantage of anything in the half court.

If he was above average at anything on offense, with Joel Embiid and Perry Ellis, they could win games.

[LloydFree]

KU as a whole has major problems.

Wiggins has his weaknesses, and they are on full display. But KU is utterly failing to showcase his strengths.

A bit disappointed in Bill Self.

It not KUs job to showcase Wiggins strengths. I think self is doing a good job coaching, he just messed up putting this team together. Wiggins in position to do thingse very night and he doesn't do anything. This entire game the bigs were getting doubled...defense paid very little attention to Wiggins and he couldn't make anything happen. It happens game after game.

It's not like Self isn't getting Wiggins easy baskets. He gets him almost an opp a game. He is getting open jumpers, where he could decide to take the open lane. It's on Wiggins for not being able to shoot from the perimeter or pass.

The one who should be disappointed is Embiid. These guards are doing him zero favors. Bad entry passes, not enough drop off passes, poor cuts off the ball and they all lack the ability to shoot open kick out 3s. Yes, this all includes Wiggins today.

Of course it is KU's job to leverage Wiggins' strengths.

Wiggins has basically become a jumpshooter. That's like making Jabari Parker into a defensive specialist.

Not really. Because Wiggins is a better jump shooter than Jabari Parker is a defender.

Seriously though, It's not Bill Self's job to showcase Andrew Wiggins. It's college basketball. Wings that are slashers never look great in their Freshman years. Dean Smith didn't showcase Jordan or Vince Carter. Coach K didn't showcase Grant Hill. Roy Williams didn't showcase Paul Pierce. All of those players looked like their teams' 2nd or 3rd best player their Freshmen years. It was inevitable that Wiggins would not live up to ridiculous expectations, because he isn't an advanced 3 point shooter.

College basketball is a glorified 3 point shooting contest. It's up to GMs to recognize NBA tools that will translate to next level. The amateur talent evaluators don't understand the differences of the pro and college games, so every few years we get a big time wing prospect, that get's downgraded in the fans eyes, because they aren't an advanced shooter yet.

[crazy_me_87]

thanks finally some nice thinking

athletic wings without elite shooting never work in College...

hell

Look at guys like MJ,Carter,Pierce,etc

they all performed much better as Rookies in the NBA then they did in College

its a different game

im not all hype with Wiggins...

but the "anti hype" seems a bit too much..

the whole over-analysing is a bad new thing in my opinion...

if you watch him play... and all you knew" super athletic 18 year old kid.. great charakter,hard worker, more skills than most kids in his age, prides himself at defence...

regardless of his college stats

thats still a POTENTIAL generational Wing prospect hands down..

yeah i agree hes no more a lock for 1.

but thats not because he is that baaaaad for KU this far.. wich he isn´t he is good.. just not amazing

but more because Embiid looks galaxys better than most thought

and yeah... Parker and Randle´s great play does the rest

he is still a major talent with almost limitless upside(he can be as good as he wants to.. if he works like a MJ,Kobe,Lebron... wow.. if he wont... well.. thats it then )

[Jazzfan12]

Uhh, I don't think that extremely hyped wings that disappoint during the season really have a remarkable track record at all.

2013: Shabazz Muhammad-Will he ever get off the bench?
2012: Harrison Barnes-11 PER, terrible plus or minus numbers, random guy.
2012 cont: Austin Rivers-Worst player in league other than Anthony Bennett.
2009: DeMar DeRozan-League average going by PER and Win Shares.
2008: OJ Mayo-Despised by every coach and teammate he has come into contact with. Currently trying to eat himself out of the league coming off the bench for the worst team in the NBA.
2006: Rudy Gay-lol