2013-14 German Bundesliga Thread: Bayern Champs Again

[Point forward]

Baumjohann isn't even real BL talent.

As a FCK fan, I can witness Baumjohann that has one game per year when he is Messi-like, and then sucks for the other 33 games. For the transfers, Bayern is neither worse nor better than most teams. They have their cheap flops (Petersen, Schlaudraff) and their expensive flops (Frings, Podolski), but also the cheap steals (Dante, Shaqiri) and the expensive steals (Robben, Ribéry). They are also not the only team to poach talent, BVB e.g. bought S. Bender, Reus and Subotic, Bayer got Son, Kießling or Wollscheid and so on. It is called "being at the top of the pecking order".

For 1860: imagine if that club had a management which was SOMEWHAT competent. Imagine this squad : Tschauner - F. Johnson, Träsch, Jungwirth, M. Schäfer - Gebhart, L. Bender, S. Bender, Nsereko (before he went Gazza) - Mlapa, Volland

I think this entire squad was sold for the proverbial bag of chips.

[Mr Grant Hill]

It's known in Germany that Bayern does buy players from contenders to weaken the competition.

it's known? you mean it's a german prejudice?
dude, i'm from germany and know very well what kind of s.hit people are talking about bayern because they can't cope with their own (their club's) failures.
don't tell me bayern signed petersen and co. to weaken the competition. nobody is hindering dortmund or schalke to sign all these mediocre players that once got a fat paycheck at bayern.
did bayern sign neuer to weaken schalke? or götze to weaken dortmund? these guys will go down as some of the greatest players in german football history, it's only natural for bayern to go after them.

Also, I don't agree with Gladbach "sucking" after losing those three players. We finished 8th in the league, had some bad luck in that CL qualification and made it to the last 32 of the europa league. All that after losing our best scorer, saviest midfielder and one of the best center backs of the Bundesliga.

see, that's exactly what i'm talking about. people love to hate on bayern for signing götze, but this process that gladbach had to go through is way, way worse. because a) it happens every season (mainz, gladbach, freiburg), and b) it affects the entire squad (and not only one position).

that 2012 gladbach squad, man, they were amazing. they could beat anyone. an-y-one. super tough defense, amazing on the counter. and then after one transfer window, boom, they sucked. you say, they didn't suck, but of course they sucked in comparison to what they had been just a few months before.

or that 2013 freiburg team, a lot of young players playing a lot of exciting football, amazing manager, everyone loved them, it was the typical feel-good-story. and then, boom - gone. after just one year. that was, in my eyes, way worse than bayern signing götze. streich was so devastated, he just couldn't understand it. he was just out there with his boys, playing football, then the market reality set in, and now they're battling against relegation.

[cgf]

Yeah it did suck to see what happened to Gladbach after the big 3 picked over their carcass, having snapped up their two most important players and midfield lynchpin. But that's the state of the sport with sharks like Bayern, BVB, Schalke, kusen, Wolfsburg, etc. out there. But one can only admire have well Gladbach have rebuilt from that pillaging, despite their most expensive signing flopping so far.

[DD12]

it's known? you mean it's a german prejudice?
dude, i'm from germany and know very well what kind of s.hit people are talking about bayern because they can't cope with their own (their club's) failures.

We are in 2014. In order for you to follow the different sports in different countries, you do not have to be from there. News can be delivered very quickly and accurately all over the world.

Absolutely there are some failure-mania teams like Schalke in Bundesliga but how about Dortmund? A couple of years ago, they sucked badly now they are one of the best teams in the world. Getting Gotze and Lewandowski from them in a way which Bayern contacted with their agent and manipulated them and brain washed them with money, success etc etc is just stealing a talent from your competitor.

You cannot show me any other league where there is only ONE club in the league which does whatever the hack they wanna do. You can never show me another team getting two best players from their biggest rivalry in any other league. Barca to Real or vice versa, Manu to Man City, AC Milan to Inter, Galatasaray to Fenerbahce, Celtic to Rangers. None. But Bayern can do whatever they want to do, they are the ONLY club in Germany, the rest is just like an appetizers.

[J-Mezzy]

Ok, this is definitely Massimo. We missed you man.

[cgf]

Ok, this is definitely Massimo. We missed you man.

He's right though, cause Figo never went to Madrid and RvP never joined united.

[Effercon]

Dortmund need a defender so badly. I'd like to see Bartra or Vermaelen come in - neither are first-choice at their clubs, and one or both coming in would really boost the team.

[DD12]

Ok, this is definitely Massimo. We missed you man.

He's right though, cause Figo never went to Madrid and RvP never joined united.

Once in 10-20 years vs 2 best players within 2 years back to back.

[Foye]

Dortmund need a defender so badly. I'd like to see Bartra or Vermaelen come in - neither are first-choice at their clubs, and one or both coming in would really boost the team.

They just need Hummels, Sokratis, Schmelzer and Pisczeck healthy after the winter break.

Bayern and Dortmund both want Matthias Ginter but no transfer this window.

[J-Mezzy]

Ramos was chosen in a poll as the best player of BL this year. People must really like him lol.

[Foye]

Ramos was chosen in a poll as the best player of BL this year. People must really like him lol.

Maybe voters thought Franck Ribery won enough last year.

[Mr Grant Hill]

blah blah blah

never ever reply to one of my posts again, thx.

[DD12]

blah blah blah

never ever reply to one of my posts again, thx.

Ok then don't talk about things that you can't respond.

[Ted Lasso]

I don't mean to throw a grenade into the trench but this is a juicy article with some especially relevant lines.

And it come from a website well known for its high journalistic standards.

Bayern's Lewandowski deal leaves Bundesliga butchered

It’s an old adage in the Bundesliga that Bayern Munich will try to kill off the competition by signing their best players.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editor ... ID=HP_BN_5

[Point forward]

Ironically, Bayern is the one BL squad that could almost field a XI only made of homegrown players. Lahm, Badstuber, Contento, Alaba, Schweini, Kroos and Müller all are FCB Youth Acadamy alumni, and FCB/YA guys like Höjbjerg and Green are on the verge of making it.

[Man of Steel]

Dortmund need a defender so badly. I'd like to see Bartra or Vermaelen come in - neither are first-choice at their clubs, and one or both coming in would really boost the team.

Don't think Barca will sell him. He got his senior team cap this year so unless they get a defender to cover for an aging Puyol, the only way they sell is if they buy a defender. Ironically the one they're most linked with is Hummels.

Ok, this is definitely Massimo. We missed you man.

He's right though, cause Figo never went to Madrid and RvP never joined united.

Not a Bayern fan but don't see what all the fuss is about. He made it clear he wasn't re-signing with Dortmund so where he signs (imo) shouldn't be such a big deal.
That being said, neither Madrid nor Manchester have run away with two of Barcelona's star players like this in such a short amount of time. Both Figo and RVP were met with massive criticism for making those moves, and they didn't hamstring their teams the way the transfer of Gotze and Lewandowski might. While it doesn't break any rules it's got to be disheartening to any BL fans who don't support the big red monster that is Bayern.

[Maex]

I don't know about all that Death of the Bundesliga/Dortmund talk. I am pretty sure that this will change again after next summer. Also this article seems to be quite misinformed.

Sure, Dortmund spent big in the summer of 2012, but that was money earned from Gotze’s surprise sale and the Champions League run.

This is e.g. one of the wrong statements. They took the majority of the money to cover for their debt and long term payments. Now they have quite a nice cash flow, which they can use. The potential of this cash flow is shown very nicely in this graph:



As you may see, every top team is using more than 40% of their revenues for wages. In average they are using 55%. Dortmund is only using 32%. Keep in mind that this revenue is taken from the season BEFORE the Götze sale and the deep Champions League run. Also the new TV deal is kicking in soon.

People fail to see, how unbelievable big the development of Dortmund was. They basically payed of most of their debt and created an very nice cash flow, which they don't use yet. In the future, they may not compete with Bayern, Barca and Real, but any team besides them should watch out.

Here is another quote from the article.

The truth is, despite all the excitement and recent growth of the Bundesliga as a spectacle, no club realistically has the finances and prestige to challenge Bayern in the long term.

This is quite funny, because I am not sure what the reporter is expecting. There are only three clubs in the whole world which can challenge Bayern in finances and prestige, which are Manchester United, Real Madrid and Barcelona.

[Mr Grant Hill]

While it doesn't break any rules it's got to be disheartening to any BL fans who don't support the big red monster that is Bayern.

y'all too funny...

how disheartening was it when berbatov, ballack, van der vaart, kompany, boateng x2, diego, özil, mertesacker, podolski, khedira, vidal, sahin, kagawa, schürrle and so many other elite players left the bundesliga? (i know some of them came back, but still...).

it's disheartening for BL fans when those players actually stay in the BL?
when there's one club that actually can attract and keep these BL players?

where would schweinsteiger, lahm, müller, neuer, götze etc. play if bayern didn't exist? you think they'd all play for dortmund and schalke?
you think lewandowski would just stay at dortmund - although his agents made it crystal clear that he wants to leave dortmund? a player who has absolutely no emotional connection the club, city or region and who has just scored 4 goals in a CL semi-final against real madrid? he would just ... stay?

it's not bayern's fault that other teams in the BL are just not that competitive.
i tell you some very simple facts:

you have four cities in germany with at least one million inhabitants, berlin, hamburg, munich and cologne.
- hertha berlin just got promoted from the 2nd division, it's a grey, faceless team without any success or tradition. last season berlin was the only european capital without first division football.
- hamburg is surrounded by one of the largest AND richest metro areas in europe, they face no serious competition in the north in terms of sponsorships, their scouting includes (or could include) the netherlands, whole scandivania and the entire north of germany etc. - and yet i can't even remember the last time they played in the CL. fighting relegation instead of fighting for the european spots.
- and cologne are a 2nd division team right now.

see what i'm talking about?

props to dortmund for coming out of their slump (were pretty much bankrupt in 2005, lucky to get a license). but that doesn't mean bayern have to accept them as some kind of sacred institution. just like real madrid or united don't do it (sahin, kagawa...).

[MaliBrah]

I agree with both sides of the argument really. Bayern has to do what it has to do to make its squad as strong as possible and is only doing what other clubs have been doing and thats buying players off selling clubs. Now to be honest there like what 5 or less clubs in the world that aren't selling clubs and thats a generous number too.

But I also agree that its bad for the BL , for the foreseeable future its a one horse race sort of like the scottish league. Now that bayern's squad is pretty much full( and thats arguable they could still bring in more) there might be an exodus of players from the BL(just a prediction) because they can find the same or higher wages elsewhere and have realistic chances at a title. I would hope dortmund and schalke can build back up again but by the time that happens this generation of bayern players might be done with the ready made replacements at ...... schalke and dortmund and other BL clubs.

[Man of Steel]

While it doesn't break any rules it's got to be disheartening to any BL fans who don't support the big red monster that is Bayern.

y'all too funny...

how disheartening was it when berbatov, ballack, van der vaart, kompany, boateng x2, diego, özil, mertesacker, podolski, khedira, vidal, sahin, kagawa, schürrle and so many other elite players left the bundesliga? (i know some of them came back, but still...).

it's disheartening for BL fans when those players actually stay in the BL?
when there's one club that actually can attract and keep these BL players?

where would schweinsteiger, lahm, müller, neuer, götze etc. play if bayern didn't exist? you think they'd all play for dortmund and schalke?
you think lewandowski would just stay at dortmund - although his agents made it crystal clear that he wants to leave dortmund? a player who has absolutely no emotional connection the club, city or region and who has just scored 4 goals in a CL semi-final against real madrid? he would just ... stay?

it's not bayern's fault that other teams in the BL are just not that competitive.

Thanks for the geography/demographics lesson
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. When I said BL fans I mean fans of BL teams since I assume, like fans of any other league, they support a team and like to see that team succeed.
My point wasn't that there is no reason for Lewandowski to join Bayern. If you read the entirety of my post, I actually made it amply clear that it's a great move for him and a great move for Bayern so I'm not surprised. My point is simply that, try as you might to deny guys like Massimo, this is a fact: moves like this only make your league less competitive. If you asked Barcelona fans whether they'd rather see all the best talent (including their own) in Spain go to Madrid or transfer and ply their trade abroad, I know what answer I'd hear 10 times out of 10. Because at the end of the day fans love watching good football but they support one team more than any other, and what's the point in watching a competition when there's virtually no chance of any opposition coming close.

Players do what is best for them. Did anyone expect Ozil to turn down a move from Werder Bremen to Real Madrid? No. Madrid is a better destination for a player that wants to win trophies at the club level and remain a starting member of the national team. When he couldn't do that at Madrid any more, he sought a move to another club.
In that same vein Lewandowski doesn't stand to lose his place on the Polish XI by remaining at Dortmund. They proved last year with their deep CL run that they can challenge for major silverware. The only incentive he has to move to Bayern (aside from better pay obv) is that it vastly increases his chances of winning club trophies not by a major improvement to Bayern Munich's attack but rather by vastly decreasing the level of quality on the Dortmund side.