2013-14 German Bundesliga Thread: Bayern Champs Again

[Foye]

obviously I had to chime in about Juve...
They are the only team in Italy that holds on to players. The only reason I can imagine that one would say they don't attract "power" is because they don't make the highest profile signings and overspend on big names. Also the fluke that saw them out of CL has everyone thinking they are lesser than the likes of PSG, Dortmund, Arsenal..which they are not.

They just got Tevez and Llorente, who are killing it this season. They have 4 of the best center mids in the world. They have best goalie in the world. Italy's 4 best center backs. None of these players are going to leave any time soon and Vidal/Pogba just signed extensions.

Kinda like Foye said, they are the team in Italy that will buy the lesser clubs talent. but in terms of spending they are lesser than all other big clubs from around the world, but look at the bargains they managed:
Pirlo, Llorente, Pogba: FREE transfers
Vidal: 12.5million euro
Tevez: 9m euro
Barzagli: 500thousand euro
Lichtsteiner: 9m euro
that is more than half of the starting lineup for 31million only

I don't know if Juve is really lesser than other big clubs in spending. Look at the numbers in last 3 or 4 years. Juve have invested a lot of money. They might not have made the 30 mil. € transfers but they had an awful lot of double digit million transfers. Especially in 2011/12.

The biggest teams in a country buy the smaller teams' best players all around Europe. The distinction is Bayern are well alone at the top of the food chain. Manchester United don't have a 90% chance of holding off national competition to sign a player they're interested in the way Bayern do. There is a Ramsey and a Hazard for every Zaha.

I'm not even a proponent of institutionalized parity, but you do have to have genuine rivalries (in terms of both results and allure) at the top or your league won't seem interesting to people, which is all we're saying.

There are enough examples in the past where players decided against Bayern Munich. Marco Reus is the most prominent example.
Bayern wanted to buy Hummels back but he refused.
Same with Goretzka who ended up in Schalke. He's gonna be a stud for sure.

Bayern got Götze, Neuer and Lewandowski fine. Other than in case of Lewandowski both clubs got enough money to find a great replacement. Especially, Schalke could've bought like 5 capable gk's with the 30 mil. € they got for Neuer. Not Bayern's fault they decided to fill that position with...Timo Hildebrandt.

[magik9113]

I don't know if Juve is really lesser than other big clubs in spending. Look at the numbers in last 3 or 4 years. Juve have invested a lot of money. They might not have made the 30 mil. € transfers but they had an awful lot of double digit million transfers. Especially in 2011/12.

That year they had new management and the overhaul allowed them to go undefeated. In hindsight it seems crazy that they spent like 30mil on Matri/Vucinic but those were the two leading scorers of the season. The money spent by them that summer was by no means excessive due to the amount of players they got, and they also did barely any spending the year before

[Man of Steel]

Well said. None of the big players will be traded between Inter/Milan/Juve. Even Napoli should be included. Only times this is possible is with players like Matri, Muntari, Pazzini, who are not starters; or special considerations like Campagnaro following Mazzarri to Inter

Ibra?

I know certain other factors were at play there but still.

[magik9113]

i'm confused he only went from juve to inter cause of serie b

[Foye]

I don't know if Juve is really lesser than other big clubs in spending. Look at the numbers in last 3 or 4 years. Juve have invested a lot of money. They might not have made the 30 mil. € transfers but they had an awful lot of double digit million transfers. Especially in 2011/12.

That year they had new management and the overhaul allowed them to go undefeated. In hindsight it seems crazy that they spent like 30mil on Matri/Vucinic but those were the two leading scorers of the season. The money spent by them that summer was by no means excessive due to the amount of players they got, and they also did barely any spending the year before

Juve invested like 100 mil. € that year and got back only 20 mil. €. That's 80 mil. net. Not many clubs can do that in Europe.

I also strongly disagree with your notion that Inter/AC and Juve would never sell to each other. It has happened before and it will happen again. The problem at the moment is that none of the top clubs (but maybe Juve) can actually afford to go after the other top teams best player without selling their own best players for even more. Just look at how shameful Berlusconi let go Silva and Ibra to get rid of their salaries and cash in some transfer revenue.

And then there is obviously the century mark. Like every big club sold to each other. Inzaghi, Vieri, Zidane, Nedved just to name a few.
Only FC Parma was everybodies b*tch. Poor club, though. They lost Buffon, Thuram, Cannavaro, Crespo, Veron, di Vaio and many other great players to direct league opposition.

Especially, Massimo who is leaving no opportunity unused to bash the Bundesliga (like back in the old days), should still remember the old days in the Serie A when everybody had money (or thought that they had money). Just think about it for a minute what happened back then before saying it would never happen in Serie A.

It has happened in the EPL as well. Chelsea has bought Torres from Liverpool. Man United and City have bought numberous players (Adebayour/Nasri/van Persie) from Arsenal.

I'll give you guys Spain as the only country where Barca and Madrid selling to each other is impossible. Well not entirely impossible (Figo) but horribly unlikely.

One or two years down the road Dortmund won't lose any players to Bayern anymore because all release clauses will be erased from their contracts. The case of Lewandowski who only wants to go to Bayern is unique but you can't really blame a player wanting to play for the best squad in the world at the moment.

[magik9113]

Idk, i don't get how Juve Milan and Inter sell to each other often. Inzaghi(Juve to Milan for a huge fee) is a good example but that's really going back. It rarely happens.

I agree that Dortmund is not a feeder club but they had two players in a row, who they didn't want to sell, sign for Bayern...

[magik9113]

and I can't include Dortmund in the category of big clubs buying stars from other big clubs, because this simply hasn't really happened.

[Foye]

Idk, i don't get how Juve Milan and Inter sell to each other often. Inzaghi(Juve to Milan for a huge fee) is a good example but that's really going back. It rarely happens.

I agree that Dortmund is not a feeder club but they had two players in a row, who they didn't want to sell, sign for Bayern...

Lazio and AS were top club as well back around the century mark. Maybe not Inter/Milan because those two clubs are from the same city but big deals between those 5 clubs happened rather frequently.

Today, Berlusconi would probably sell Balotelli to Inter in a minute if only Inter offered him 5 mil. more than the next highest bidder. However, since Inter isn't in the financial condition to make 30+ mil. € bids this has like 0 percent chance to happen right now.

[Foye]

and I can't include Dortmund in the category of big clubs buying stars from other big clubs, because this simply hasn't really happened.

Dortmund is working towards becoming so strong financially that they can do such deals. However, they are already in a position where they can offer young players a perspective to play CL every year and earn a lot of money. They are in a legit position to compete with Bayern for the best talent in the Bundesliga.

Stating they are a farm team for Bayern Munich because they now lost two players to them is incorrect. I know that's not what you are saying but that's what some here are saying.

[cgf]

Remember how adamant Massimo was that Bayern and Dortmund where the only BuLi clubs who would advance from their groups in the CL? I love that he continues to display his ignorance about the BuLi every chance he gets.

[J-Mezzy]

Although it is highly unlikely to see a top team in another league lose their top 2 players to a rival in back to back season, they were both individual acts and not enough to call it a trend. Yes, Bayern is forming a dynasty, but their core has been home grown talent and they don't buy any more top players than the other top clubs in the world.

I do hope that it really doesn't become a trend. I like the BBL A lot and would like to see all the other teams to continue growing. Hopefully Reus and Ilkay don't join Bayern ever or Dortmund will indeed look like a farm house.

[J-Mezzy]

Remember how adamant Massimo was that Bayern and Dortmund where the only BuLi clubs who would advance from their groups in the CL? I love that he continues to display his ignorance about the BuLi every chance he gets.

Hey man, this place wasnt the same without you guys' wars lol.

[cgf]

Although it is highly unlikely to see a top team in another league lose their top 2 players to a rival in back to back season, they were both individual acts and not enough to call it a trend. Yes, Bayern is forming a dynasty, but their core has been home grown talent and they don't buy any more top players than the other top clubs in the world.

I do hope that it really doesn't become a trend. I like the BBL A lot and would like to see all the other teams to continue growing. Hopefully Reus and Ilkay don't join Bayern ever or Dortmund will indeed look like a farm house.

While I could definitely see Ilkay leaving for Madrid, I can't see him or Reus ever moving to Bayern unless Klopp left Dortmund soon and the team collapsed without him. Even then I think they'd strike out abroad before considering a move to Munich.

[cgf]

Any way. So Bibras Natkho is out of contract and will be free to sign anywhere tomorrow. I really hope that Schalke don't forget about him because they got a loan for Kirchoff. He's exactly the kind of ball-playing 8 who can control the team and give them an offensive structure from deeper that's undone them many times. Get Hunter healthy again, stick "the israeli xavi" in the double pivot, and watch Schalke's firepower start to click consistently. Even if their defense will continue to be very beatable.

Gladbach seem to be getting closer to the swiss duo of Stocker and Schar, who is my favorite young CB not yet in the BuLi or at a big club. Although I still haven't heard them showing interest in Sommer, who I'd love for them to bring along with Schar to replace MAtS.

[Foye]

Meanwhile Eintracht Frankfurt signs high impact players Tobias Weis and Alexander Madlung to avoid relegation.

[J-Mezzy]

How good is that keeper that Barcelona want? He looked horrible in that friendly vs U.S

[cgf]

How good is that keeper that Barcelona want? He looked horrible in that friendly vs U.S

He's still just 20 and was coming off a rough season where the defense in front of him was very unstable after Dante left. This season things have stabilized and MAtS has been fantastic, might be the single biggest reason the beat Dortmund. And two seasons ago he was amazing when they took 4th. He's still very young and so there will still be growing pains, but he's got as much raw talent and instincts for the position as anyone in the world.

[Foye]

I still prefer Trapp over ter Stegen. But ter Stegen is good.

[cgf]

I still prefer Trapp over ter Stegen. But ter Stegen is good.

Trapp is really talented himself, but he doesn't have MAtS's raw talent, his reflexes aren't as ridiculous and he doesn't have the same knack for the incredible save. Honestly I'd take Leno over Trapp to.

ter Stegen
Sommer
Leno
Trapp
Baumann

are the top 5 young german speaking keepers.

[DD12]

You guys really don't answer my questions and just saying the same things over and over.

My question is pretty simple.

Show me a BIG club in Europe where they had to sell their TWO BEST players to their rival team within two years even though they are as successful as the rival but players literally are forcing the club to sell them to their rival.

Give me an example. Don't tell me Parmalat, Crystal Palace etc etc. Still telling me Liverpool and Chelsea. They are even rival, it is not even a derby. Tell me about Manchester United and Manchester City in these days. Tell me about old Arsenal-Manchester United clash. Give me an example from Inter Milan and AC Milan. Give me an example from Celtic-Glasgow Rangers. Tell me about Galatasaray Fenerbahce or Boca Juniors-River Plate. From Liverpool to Chelsea is like Schalke to Bayern Munich. There is a class difference between teams and no rivalry. Don't use Liverpool-Everton example. There is rivalry between but there is a literally class difference and it doesn't fit into the criteria where one of the teams are as successful as the other team.

Give me an actual example. Tell me, look in this year Real Madrid won the EPL and same year Madrid's best player ..... said that the only club he will go to is Barcelona and he went to Barcelona. After a year of losing this player, Real Madrid's another BEST player literally forced Real Madrid to sell him to Barcelona.

Just like this. I want actual examples. I want TWO players. Don't come up with Figo or RvP. I want two players back to back.

Just be honest. Say it. Yes Bayern Munich is the monopoly and other teams are raising the players for them. If Bayern, today, is interested in half of the Dortmund's squad, they can very easily get them also. You think if Bayern matches Reus' minimum clause fee, Reus is not gonna go there? Hell yeah. He won't even think about it for a second. Subotic, Hummels, Ilkay etc etc. All of them are dying to play for Bayern because they are the ONLY team in the league.