OT: locker room issues breweing in Sacramento

[qianlong]

Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave So a few things: This Kings team chemistry is teetering badly. Factions are being formed in the locker room. Not a great situation.

Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave I believe over the next few days/weeks, these infights will come out. Guys are frustrated with each other and it is spilling onto the floor.

Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave There is one common denominator to most of the player on player confrontations. I'll leave it to you to guess who.

Carmichael Dave ‏@CarmichaelDave Coach Malone is being tested pretty hard right now. He's holding these guys together with string and bubble gum. Things are bubbling up.

I took it from the Raps board so I don't know how legittimate it is.

I know they will trade everbody else instead of Cousins, but if he becomes available bulls have to make a play.
I Know people will say that he is immature, and a bad defender, but he is just a competitive Kid, he is not as terrible as portrayed on defense and he is just very good on offense. The great thing is that he knows to pass out of double teams. He is young and improving.

Noah plus charlotte's pick and ours this year.

Move taj into the starting line up, and we are back to business.

A man can dream.

edit: the thread is for the sacramento information, the cousins trade is just a spin.

[Doom]

if cousins gets traded i believe he will wake up. and in a culture like chicago's, noah and a pick for him would be good imo

[MalcolmXing]

That's the least surprising team to have that issue, they got so many guys trying to prove their worth, that team was set up horribly.

[MalcolmXing]

We could probably get Lu & Mike for DMC & picks, why? Because Sac wants to apparently start a team with only Forwards at every position.

[Ice Man]

A team with Rose, DMC, and good role players could win multiple titles. Yes that requires the real Rose and DMC to not be a jackass. By no means guarantees. But what title path is guaranteed?

He's a 23 year old putting up 26/13 on the season. Get him. Now.

[ryannik09]

I would see if I could Bull off the trade without giving up Noah....But I have been advocate for Cousins for years, love his game, Thibs and the Bulls culture are one of the few places where he could get things turned around attitude wise. He's super competitive, he's just immature and doesn't know how to properly channel his emotions.

[Ice Man]

I would see if I could Bull off the trade without giving up Noah

Now you're sounding like the Bulls' FO. DMC is #5 in the NBA for PER, behind Durant, LeBron, Love, and CP3. Ahead of Paul George, Curry, LMA, Dirk, Melo, etc. Even with personality problems, he's going to cost *something* to get in a trade. He's massively more talented than any Bull not named Rose.

[dougthonus]

I know they will trade everbody else instead of Cousins, but if he becomes available bulls have to make a play.

Why would the Bulls have to make a player for a center who refuses to play defense, won't listen to coaches, and has one of the worst attitudes (if not the worst) in the entire NBA?

I certainly get the offensive upside. However, he can't get he Kings any wins. I question how good he really is in terms of helping his team win basketball games. That said, he does have a massive net +/- number this year suggesting he is part of the solution not the problem.

It'd be so hard to root for that guy night in and night out though.

[coldfish]

That's the least surprising team to have that issue, they got so many guys trying to prove their worth, that team was set up horribly.

Teams like Sacramento and Cleveland are my nightmare for becoming a tank treadmill. When you get multiple young players you start having all kinds of agendas going on, many of which do not involve winning games. Bad habits form. You have to figure out if the problem is the player or the situation. Coaches get fired. Players get traded for less than their real worth. Its just ugly.

Its one of the main reasons why you want to maintain a winning culture in Chicago. IMO, if you do, you can bring in a guy who came from a bad situation or a young player and get them playing in a winning manner. If you bring in too many, you get to a critical mass and it all falls apart.

[Ice Man]

[I question how good he really is in terms of helping his team win basketball games.

On the court, 26/13 speaks for itself. Those are not empty calories. Not (entirely) his fault if his team isn't very good.

Off the court, you are surely right. DMC is not helping his team win games. You don't trade for him unless you have some confidence you can fix his attitude.

[Chi town]

That's the least surprising team to have that issue, they got so many guys trying to prove their worth, that team was set up horribly.

Teams like Sacramento and Cleveland are my nightmare for becoming a tank treadmill. When you get multiple young players you start having all kinds of agendas going on, many of which do not involve winning games. Bad habits form. You have to figure out if the problem is the player or the situation. Coaches get fired. Players get traded for less than their real worth. Its just ugly.

Its one of the main reasons why you want to maintain a winning culture in Chicago. IMO, if you do, you can bring in a guy who came from a bad situation or a young player and get them playing in a winning manner. If you bring in too many, you get to a critical mass and it all falls apart.

These players and situations are the best trade targets. Buy low with high potential in winning culture. These type of players have the talent to be franchise players or very good second options but don't have the culture or vets to make it happen. As much as I love Noah I'd trade him in a heartbeat for Cousins. Good trade for both teams. Taj next to cousins would be a great tandem. Noah helps Kings win games and change culture. I don't know that Noah could handle the babysitting though.

[DuckIII]

There is one common denominator to most of the player on player confrontations. I'll leave it to you to guess who.

I knew they shouldn't have drafted Jimmer.

[Ice the knees]

Every cousins thread I try to remind people of this

" ATLANTA -- Chicago Bulls rookie Joakim Noah was benched for Sunday's 105-84 loss to the Atlanta Hawks -- by his teammates.


We have a chance to salvage this season and we just need everybody on the page.
--Adrian Griffin

They delivered a unanimous vote after the rookie from Florida was involved in a confrontation with assistant coach Ron Adams in practice before Friday's game at Philadelphia.

Noah was inactive for the Philadelphia game for internal disciplinary reasons, but the players told interim coach Jim Boylan one game was not enough."

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

[MalcolmXing]

That's the least surprising team to have that issue, they got so many guys trying to prove their worth, that team was set up horribly.

Teams like Sacramento and Cleveland are my nightmare for becoming a tank treadmill. When you get multiple young players you start having all kinds of agendas going on, many of which do not involve winning games. Bad habits form. You have to figure out if the problem is the player or the situation. Coaches get fired. Players get traded for less than their real worth. Its just ugly.

Its one of the main reasons why you want to maintain a winning culture in Chicago. IMO, if you do, you can bring in a guy who came from a bad situation or a young player and get them playing in a winning manner. If you bring in too many, you get to a critical mass and it all falls apart.

Especially with 3 guys at the same position who all at 3 different levels want to prove themselves.

Rudy Gay - He's 27 & he likely wants to prove he's a star or borderline star

D. Williams - Finally got traded & has shown flashes of being a good player & Gay is ruining his development.

McLemore - He's also shown those flashes & having dropped from #1 to #7, wants to prove he deserved it.

Those are 3 guys at the wing.

Then u get Isiah, DMC, Fredette, Thornton(he's always been a ball hog when I've seen him play), and then wait til' Landry's back.

[DanTown8587]

Every cousins thread I try to remind people of this

" ATLANTA -- Chicago Bulls rookie Joakim Noah was benched for Sunday's 105-84 loss to the Atlanta Hawks -- by his teammates.


We have a chance to salvage this season and we just need everybody on the page.
--Adrian Griffin

They delivered a unanimous vote after the rookie from Florida was involved in a confrontation with assistant coach Ron Adams in practice before Friday's game at Philadelphia.

Noah was inactive for the Philadelphia game for internal disciplinary reasons, but the players told interim coach Jim Boylan one game was not enough."

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

Noah was a rookie yelling a coach, Cousins is in his 4th year and has signed a max deal, they are not the same situation in the slightest.

[DuckIII]

Every cousins thread I try to remind people of this

" ATLANTA -- Chicago Bulls rookie Joakim Noah was benched for Sunday's 105-84 loss to the Atlanta Hawks -- by his teammates.


We have a chance to salvage this season and we just need everybody on the page.
--Adrian Griffin

First, two things.

(a) I am not completely opposed to trading a Noah based package for Cousins. I'm worried about it, but if it happened I wouldn't be pulling my hair out. He's crazy talented and the only real chance he has to not see a career as a douche loser is to end up on a team like Chicago with strong player leadership (I say player leadership, because the guy doesn't give a **** about his coaches, and clearly has literal emotional problems with authority).

(b) I posted from last season through this summer's Sacto trades laughing my ass off at Sacto's front office for deciding to actually build around this clown as the centerpiece. Its hilarious to think that he would ever be able to be the primary talent on a team that ever did anything but lose hideously. They've consistently moved coaching and player pieces to appease him, and nothing has changed. Which is not even remotely surprising.

In other words, I agree that he's a world class **** up loser, but one that Chicago could be in a very unique situation to save. Though I most certainly wouldn't assume success and, if betting in a red/black context, would bet on franchise ruination and disaster. But we're nearing the point of needing to take that risk.

Those points out of the way, this Noah analogy is very bad. Noah has proven himself to be a winner, leave your heart on the floor on both ends of the court (regardless of limitations in talent), everywhere he's been. He entered a team with bad chemistry problems and lost control with a coach, so his teammates sanctioned him. And he immediately learned his lesson and has otherwise been an ideal teammate his entire life. Don't liken him to a guy like Cousins, who has been an uncoachable ass hole and terrible teammate for every single team he ever played for, dating back to his mid-teenage years.

The risk of him continuing to be a huge douche and loser regardless of circumstances is a very real one.

[Ice the knees]

Every cousins thread I try to remind people of this

" ATLANTA -- Chicago Bulls rookie Joakim Noah was benched for Sunday's 105-84 loss to the Atlanta Hawks -- by his teammates.


We have a chance to salvage this season and we just need everybody on the page.
--Adrian Griffin

They delivered a unanimous vote after the rookie from Florida was involved in a confrontation with assistant coach Ron Adams in practice before Friday's game at Philadelphia.

Noah was inactive for the Philadelphia game for internal disciplinary reasons, but the players told interim coach Jim Boylan one game was not enough."

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

Noah was a rookie yelling a coach, Cousins is in his 4th year and has signed a max deal, they are not the same situation in the slightest.

You are right. The Bulls had the right culture in place to curtail that kind of behavior. The Kings do not

Young talented players who have always won struggle with losses. The Kings have done nothing to put their best player in a position to succeed. I'd be pissed too. Although being 8 years older than cousins I'd like to think of handle it better. But when you're that young that's a tough age to mellow out

[DanTown8587]

Every cousins thread I try to remind people of this

" ATLANTA -- Chicago Bulls rookie Joakim Noah was benched for Sunday's 105-84 loss to the Atlanta Hawks -- by his teammates.


We have a chance to salvage this season and we just need everybody on the page.
--Adrian Griffin

They delivered a unanimous vote after the rookie from Florida was involved in a confrontation with assistant coach Ron Adams in practice before Friday's game at Philadelphia.

Noah was inactive for the Philadelphia game for internal disciplinary reasons, but the players told interim coach Jim Boylan one game was not enough."

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

Noah was a rookie yelling a coach, Cousins is in his 4th year and has signed a max deal, they are not the same situation in the slightest.

You are right. The Bulls had the right culture in place to curtail that kind of behavior. The Kings do not

Young talented players who have always won struggle with losses. The Kings have done nothing to put their best player in a position to succeed. I'd be pissed too. Although being 8 years older than cousins I'd like to think of handle it better. But when you're that young that's a tough age to mellow out

Cousins has been a knucklehead his whole life, this isn't some "he just wants to win" guy. He's like the EXACT opposite of Derrick Rose. Every great player at some level has to sacrifice something and Cousins isn't capable of that yet. The Bulls might be one of the teams that can survive taking Cousins but the risk is substantial.

[DuckIII]

You are right. The Bulls had the right culture in place to curtail that kind of behavior. The Kings do not

This is all wrong. That season the Bulls were projected by many to win the East, and completely imploded emotionally throughout the season in large part because Ben Wallace was a terrible veteran leader, ending in a season of 33 wins, widely considered the biggest failed season in the entire NBA.

The difference was that Noah is Noah, and Cousins is Cousins. One is a historically hard working winner with a minor, isolated blip in his career in a tough spot, who learned from his mistakes, the other is a career cancer everywhere he's been, with emotional problems who has never once learned any lesson from the many different punishments he's received.

[Ice Man]

The difference was that Noah is Noah, and Cousins is Cousins. One is a historically hard working winner with a minor, isolated blip in his career in a tough spot, who learned from his mistakes, the other is a career cancer everywhere he's been, with emotional problems who has never once learned any lesson from the many different punishments he's received.

Fair enough. Although Noah's item wasn't a blip. He has always been a hothead. He talks on and off the court, picks up technicals, mouths off to Thibs. He just gets punished less now because he's not a rookie.

Which in a way undercuts my argument for getting Cousins, because I think what I'm saying is these cats don't change. Noah hasn't fixed his problem. It''s just a small problem in the grand scheme of things, while Cousins has a big danged cancer problem.