Bradley Beal - Part II

DCZards · Post #361 » by **DCZards** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:02 pm

^^^^^It's hard to understand why some posters patience with Beal (and Porter) is so short...and shortsighted.

dckingsfan · Post #362 » by **dckingsfan** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:08 pm

Beal is definitely doing some things better and has really worked on his handles.

His rebounding and assist numbers have not really improved and his A/TO is flat as well.

I know this is being greedy, but I was expecting more. I am keeping my fingers crossed that the second half of the year looks even better for him.

theboomking · Post #363 » by **theboomking** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:43 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Beal is definitely doing some things better and has really worked on his handles.

His rebounding and assist numbers have not really improved and his A/TO is flat as well.

I know this is being greedy, but I was expecting more. I am keeping my fingers crossed that the second half of the year looks even better for him.

I actually think Beal is a very good passer. Without being elite at breaking a defense down off the dribble, and without holding the ball too much, I am not sure Beal is ever going to rack up a ton of assists. The best thing Beal can do to improve is improve his shot selection and stay healthy.

Also, I was just looking at Beal compared to Klay Thompson. The only place Klay has a real advantage currently is in 2P%. Klay scores minimally more and doesn't have the assist or rebounding numbers That Beal does. Klay constantly gets brought up by the media as eventually being a max type guy.

dlts20 · Post #364 » by **dlts20** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:51 pm

The funny thing is we are talking in the Wall thread about how alot of Cavs fans are turning on Kyrie because they think he's a ball hog who doesnt make his teammates better. The same is happening about Drummond. Guys in this thread are acting like we shouldve picked him but some of teh Pistons fans are really starting to doubt him. They say Offensively he is downright horrible and can only score on an Offensive rebound or dunk from a perfect assist. While on Defense he doesnt stop anyone.

They say that they are totally rethinking the fact that he is a guy you can build around as your #1 player. Right now they think he's bascially just a dominant rebounder and they are starting to compare him to DeAndre Jordan. They are also worried that he might be getting disinterested from not getting the ball enough

Post #365 » by **nate33** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:05 pm

dlts20 wrote:The funny thing is we are talking in the Wall thread about how alot of Cavs fans are turning on Kyrie because they think he's a ball hog who doesnt make his teammates better. The same is happening about Drummond. Guys in this thread are acting like we shouldve picked him but some of teh Pistons fans are really starting to doubt him. They say Offensively he is downright horrible and can only score on an Offensive rebound or dunk from a perfect assist. While on Defense he doesnt stop anyone.

They say that they are totally rethinking the fact that he is a guy you can build around as your #1 player. Right now they think he's bascially just a dominant rebounder and they are starting to compare him to DeAndre Jordan. They are also worried that he might be getting disinterested from not getting the ball enough

I would trade everyone on the roster not named Wall or Beal for Drummond. A Wall, Beal, Drummond core would contend for the next decade. Just add shooters.

dlts20 · Post #366 » by **dlts20** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:13 pm

nate33 wrote:
dlts20 wrote:The funny thing is we are talking in the Wall thread about how alot of Cavs fans are turning on Kyrie because they think he's a ball hog who doesnt make his teammates better. The same is happening about Drummond. Guys in this thread are acting like we shouldve picked him but some of teh Pistons fans are really starting to doubt him. They say Offensively he is downright horrible and can only score on an Offensive rebound or dunk from a perfect assist. While on Defense he doesnt stop anyone.

They say that they are totally rethinking the fact that he is a guy you can build around as your #1 player. Right now they think he's bascially just a dominant rebounder and they are starting to compare him to DeAndre Jordan. They are also worried that he might be getting disinterested from not getting the ball enough

I would trade everyone on the roster not named Wall or Beal for Drummond. A Wall, Beal, Drummond core would contend for the next decade. Just add shooters.

I agree but its more of a comparison thing. Like its Wall vs Kyrie and in this case for Wiz fans it might always be Beal vs Drummond. Would you trade Beal for Drummond? I suspect most would say yes and maybe throw in something but I wouldnt. I wont argue with someone who would though. Just like Beal, Andre should also get better at everything

theboomking · Post #367 » by **theboomking** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:45 pm

dlts20 wrote:I agree but its more of a comparison thing. Like its Wall vs Kyrie and in this case for Wiz fans it might always be Beal vs Drummond. Would you trade Beal for Drummond? I suspect most would say yes and maybe throw in something but I wouldnt. I wont argue with someone who would though. Just like Beal, Andre should also get better at everything

Detroit isn't going to trade Drummond. He is basically the hopes of the franchise. What else do they have to plan around?

I wouldn't trade Beal for Drummond for the simple fact that the Beal/Wall fit is so complementary. Beal is a heady two way player that is a great shooter. Drummond is basically a defender/rebounder/cleanup guy. That is valuable, but in the end, replaceable.

dckingsfan · Post #368 » by **dckingsfan** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:18 pm

theboomking wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Beal is definitely doing some things better and has really worked on his handles.

His rebounding and assist numbers have not really improved and his A/TO is flat as well.

I know this is being greedy, but I was expecting more. I am keeping my fingers crossed that the second half of the year looks even better for him.

I actually think Beal is a very good passer. Without being elite at breaking a defense down off the dribble, and without holding the ball too much, I am not sure Beal is ever going to rack up a ton of assists. The best thing Beal can do to improve is improve his shot selection and stay healthy.

Also, I was just looking at Beal compared to Klay Thompson. The only place Klay has a real advantage currently is in 2P%. Klay scores minimally more and doesn't have the assist or rebounding numbers That Beal does. Klay constantly gets brought up by the media as eventually being a max type guy.

True, he is a good passer. True, health and shot selection is key.

I am just hoping he steps up even more. Go from good to great... can't remember who pointed it out but they thought he wouldn't "break out" until his 3rd season.

Illmatic21 · Post #369 » by **Illmatic21** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:24 am

dlts20 wrote:The funny thing is we are talking in the Wall thread about how alot of Cavs fans are turning on Kyrie because they think he's a ball hog who doesnt make his teammates better. The same is happening about Drummond. Guys in this thread are acting like we shouldve picked him but some of teh Pistons fans are really starting to doubt him. They say Offensively he is downright horrible and can only score on an Offensive rebound or dunk from a perfect assist. While on Defense he doesnt stop anyone.

They say that they are totally rethinking the fact that he is a guy you can build around as your #1 player. Right now they think he's bascially just a dominant rebounder and they are starting to compare him to DeAndre Jordan. They are also worried that he might be getting disinterested from not getting the ball enough

Drummond is a 20 year old 7-footer averaging 13/12 with 1.6 blocks, 1.5 steals (1.5 steals!), and a PER of 21+.. the kid is a stud.

Detroit's mismanaged roster/coaching situation is clearly stunting his development. On a different team, he'd be way ahead of where he is now (which is pretty damn good for a 20-year old big man).

dckingsfan · Post #370 » by **dckingsfan** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:57 pm

Agreed! Maurice Cheeks is, IMO, the worst coach in the L.

http://www.csnnw.com/blog/dwight/mauric ... hiring-him

dckingsfan · Post #371 » by **dckingsfan** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:58 pm

Just happy he didn't land in San Antonio or Chicago!

Post #372 » by **Ruzious** » Mon Jan 6, 2014 2:45 pm

I feel like the elephant in the room is Beal's play. People here for the most part seem to consider him to be a star quality player - but he simply isn't. Right now, he's the 7th best player on a Wiz team that doesn't have 8 quality players. The last 3 games, he's gone 4 of 14, 6 of 16, and 4 of 15; and just as disappointing - he's attempted all of 1 FT in the 3 losses.

Not only that - it seems that every opposing starting 2 puts up all-star level games against him - though I haven't checked the numbers to verify that. The last 3 games, we have gotten killed at his position. Klay Thompson was a model of efficiency and production last night, and I think it's fair to expect Beal to be close to Thompson level at this point. Thompson's a great jump shooter who does not get to the line. And we do have a wing player on the roster that has virtually identical PER and efficiency numbers to Thompson. That player is Webster; not Beal. The Wiz should be using Webster as the model for Beal. They're like... on the same team, so this shouldn't be a difficult concept for the Wiz coach's and front office to understand.

Yes, he's very young, but we need to see progress, and we haven't gotten it at all.

GhostsOfGil · Post #373 » by **GhostsOfGil** » Mon Jan 6, 2014 3:01 pm

Ruzious wrote:I feel like the elephant in the room is Beal's play. People here for the most part seem to consider him to be a star quality player - but he simply isn't. Right now, he's the 7th best player on a Wiz team that doesn't have 8 quality players. The last 3 games, he's gone 4 of 14, 6 of 16, and 4 of 15; and just as disappointing - he's attempted all of 1 FT in the 3 losses.

Not only that - it seems that every opposing starting 2 puts up all-star level games against him - though I haven't checked the numbers to verify that. The last 3 games, we have gotten killed at his position. Klay Thompson was a model of efficiency and production last night, and I think it's fair to expect Beal to be close to Thompson level at this point. Thompson's a great jump shooter who does not get to the line. And we do have a wing player on the roster that has virtually identical PER and efficiency numbers to Thompson. That player is Webster; not Beal. The Wiz should be using Webster as the model for Beal. They're like... on the same team, so this shouldn't be a difficult concept for the Wiz coach's and front office to understand.

Yes, he's very young, but we need to see progress, and we haven't gotten it at all.

For some reason it's difficult to acknowledge this but I wholeheartedly agree. Beal needs to drop the mid range game from his arsenal and focus on attacking the rim.

stevemcqueen1 · Post #374 » by **stevemcqueen1** » Mon Jan 6, 2014 3:13 pm

Beal hasn't played well since he got hurt. I think injuries are hampering his development.

One of the things that worries me most is his defensive play. And that of most of the team for that matter. He hasn't been defending well and he needs to.

Ruz, Klay Thompson is three years older, we shouldn't necessarily expect Beal to be there yet.

I think Beal will get to an AS level eventually. The stunning flashes of talent are frequent. And after all, Beal & Wall are still the second highest scoring backcourt in the league so the offensive signs are promising.

But he's behind where Wall was as a player at 20, and it might not be for a couple of years yet before Beal is truly an excellent two way player and bonafide All Star.

Also, I think a big thing for both Wall and Beal would be for Porter to develop quickly and make the offense a three headed beast. And for our bigs to get better defensively and protect the rim.

Actually the biggest thing for them would be to get coached by Brad Stevens. Look at what that guy has done with Jordan Crawford and Avery Bradley...

DCZards · Post #375 » by **DCZards** » Mon Jan 6, 2014 3:15 pm

Ruzious wrote:I feel like the elephant in the room is Beal's play. People here for the most part seem to consider him to be a star quality player - but he simply isn't. Right now, he's the 7th best player on a Wiz team that doesn't have 8 quality players. The last 3 games, he's gone 4 of 14, 6 of 16, and 4 of 15; and just as disappointing - he's attempted all of 1 FT in the 3 losses.

Not only that - it seems that every opposing starting 2 puts up all-star level games against him - though I haven't checked the numbers to verify that. The last 3 games, we have gotten killed at his position. Klay Thompson was a model of efficiency and production last night, and I think it's fair to expect Beal to be close to Thompson level at this point.
Yes, he's very young, but we need to see progress, and we haven't gotten it at all.

Ruz, I'm with you when you suggest that Beal has been a disappointment this season. His shot is not falling and he simply does not attack the basket off the dribble enough. I think he's more capable of penetraing than he's shown and I worry that he's a little gun shy from all of the hard contact and injuries that's resulted from him attacking the basket in the past.

And, yes, he takes far too many long twos instead of stepping back and shooting the three, which is easily his best weapon. As much confidence and maturity as he shows on the surface, I think Beal is not handling this shooting slump as well as he pretends to be, and I think it's also affecting his play on the defensive end. But he's still young with plenty of time and room for improvement. Our expectations of Beal may have been a little inflated based on how well he played during the preseason and the first month or so of the regular season.

I disagree, however, with the notion that Beal should be close to Klay Thompson's level. Thompson will be 24 years old in about a month, with 3 years of college and and two years of pro ball under his belt. Beal is 20 with one year of coll. ball and one year of NBA experience. I consider that a big difference in overall experience and physical/mental maturity.

tontoz · Post #376 » by **tontoz** » Mon Jan 6, 2014 3:18 pm

Beal wasn't playing well even before he got hurt. The only thing he was doing well was making catch and shoot 3s. His 2 pt % was below 40% even then. He wasn't getting to the basket/foul line and wasn't rebounding much either.

Post #377 » by **nate33** » Mon Jan 6, 2014 3:53 pm

You can include me on the "Beal is a disappointment this year" bandwagon.

I'm not saying we should trade him or anything like that, but I am disappointed in his shot selection and lack of development this year. He's the same player as last year. He's better than the guy over the first 2 months of last year, but actually a bit worse than the guy from the last 3 months of last year.

He has shown visible improvement in his ball handling skills, but it hasn't translated on the court.

He's still young. And he was recovering from injury for most of the offseason last year, so his lack of improvement is somewhat justified. But it's disappointing nevertheless.

fishercob · Post #378 » by **fishercob** » Mon Jan 6, 2014 4:31 pm

I was at the Raptors game and was startled by how bad Beal's body language was -- you just see different things than you do on TV. Lots of slumped shoulders; being the last one back to the huddle at timeouts -- by a lot, etc. He seemed to wake himself up with the chasedown block, but then when the ball bounced Toronto's way in the next sequence he clapped his hands and looked like someone had stolen his puppy.

He's clearly struggling mentally and I think the repeated injuries are taking a mental toll. Teams are justifiably making a concerted effort to run him off the line, and he seems to be shying away from the contact that comes with going hard to the rim. He's settling for long pull-up twos, playing right into the D's hands. It's what celebrates a star like Harden from Beal -- Harden has the thee game AND the abaility to get to the rim and finish when defenses take the 3 away.

I am optimistic that Brad will work through this. I also know that with a few good games, this board will forget his struggles and treat him like a can't-miss superstar. Wall did not really "break out" until the latter portion of last year, his third season. Beal's rookie year compared very well with Klay's and Beal was a year and a half younger as a rook. I suspect he'll be fine, and yet, I am also disappointed with how his season is going.

Post #379 » by **Ruzious** » Mon Jan 6, 2014 4:40 pm

Fisher, do you think there's a little "too cool for school" vibe in his body lingo? I just want to see a sign that he's willing to out-work his opponents - something like we see from Booker. It's a lot easier to feel good about players when it's clear they're hustling. To see a lack of energy is disappointing.

JWallConnect · Post #380 » by **JWallConnect** » Mon Jan 6, 2014 5:05 pm

His 2 pt shot as been awful but I'm not really worried as I think he will find it at some point during the season, he's too good of a shooter not too. One thing I would like to see from him is to attack the basket more. Wall has more than double the attempts of Beal in the paint.