OT: locker room issues breweing in Sacramento

[HomoSapien]

But you would need to trade Noah for him.

Yes, but your post stated that you wouldn't trade anything for him. We don't know if it'd cost Noah. A few years ago Anthony would have definitely cost us Noah. This year, if the Knicks decided to trade him, the asking price would be lower. Cousins won't get traded this year, but next year, who knows. At that point, the Kings could prefer a huge expiring contract (like Boozer's if we still have him) + young assets such as picks or Mirotic.

He is on a max deal and obviously has value to the right bidder. If you take knuckle heads on, you do it like LA has done with Nick Young and give him the minimum.

Tell that to the Grizzlies after trading for Randolph.

Cousins is on a max deal therefore to move for him, you have to give up quite a bit for him. The risk is high. If he was still on a rookie deal where you're not committing 8 figures to a head case, then yes, have a crack, but he is owed 60 million over the next 4 years. That's a big commitment if you can't change him.

Unless he completely flops, it won't be the hardest thing to trade him again. We've gotten rid of undesirable contracts before.

You mention that Sacramento is the place where careers go to die, but a lot of their roster is consistently overturned with younger players all trying to prove their worth with zero veteran leadership.

Right. Chicago is vastly different.

Cousins is extremely talented and has incredible potential, but he is the modern day Rasheed Wallace. I really doubt that he will.

And what happened to Rasheed Wallace when Detroit took a chance on him?

[dice]

with terrible efficiency for a big man. this is the first year he has even had respectable efficiency, meaning that even if he's still something of a black hole on offense, he's at least pretty productive with his touches. and he's never been a particularly good defender

His efficiency was fine last year. Not above average, but pretty much right at league average. Guys who score at high volume rate and high efficiency are known as untouchable superstars. Volume is so underrated. His efficiency is now above average, and his volume is outright elite.

he was two points below league average efficiency for starters. 52.4% vs 54.5%. he was below his team average (bench included) of 53.2. he was not a net positive for his team on either end of the floor his first three years in the league even when you factor in his rebounding. i.e. "nothing special"

[HomoSapien]

No, I am referring to the guy that could have been an absolute legend of the game and in conversations with Garnett, Webber, Duncan and Dirk of his era.

Rasheed carved out a very nice career and found his way to a title but the comparison is more about an athlete letting other aspects of life getting in the way of allowing them to become the best possible player they can be.

Cousins, along with Anthony Davis, is the most skilled big man in the league and has the tools to be one the best bigs the league has had in years. Despite this, I'm not sure if he will ever be part of a winning organisation because I don't think he can lead one, and I'm not sure if good programs are going to break the bank on him.

But whether or not he becomes the best Cousins possible is not the issue. Whether or not he can help us win a championship, is the issue.

I know I said earlier that I wouldn't trade Noah for him, but the more I think about it, the more likely I would be to take that chance. If we were able to come back with the below roster, I would really like our chances:

C. Cousins/Anyone better than Nazr
PF.Gibson/Mirotic
SF.Deng/Dunleavy
SG.Butler/Snell
PG.Rose/Augustin/Hinrich

To me, that is the most complete team that we have had post Jordan.

[WesleyExChiFan]

I have never, and will never consider any trade proposals for DeMarcus Cousins. The guy is just not mature enough and nor does he bring the right attitude to his professional game.

It's sad really because the guy has all the tools to be a HOFer.

Assuming these tweets are related to Cousins, which one would assume they're given the long list of nonsense he has been involved with, it's a red flag.

This is what happens when an unstable guy is your best player and one of your more experienced players. The Kings have continuously traded away veterans and have tried to rebuild via the draft. They clearly have failed, and continue to so, and with no leadership on the team, they will remain cellar dwellers.

So the guy that has Van Damme beating off as his Real GM signature is critical of someone's maturity. I mean, I can't even read this board in public because somebody might see that. For real man, it's awkward.

[micromonkey]

I'm hardly the biggest cousins man. But at this point he'd definitely be worth the risk. He looks to be in much better shape--which speaks to an important part of attitude. So to say there is zero progress on that front seems a little crazy--as you can visually see that change--which requires an attitude change and acknowledgement IMO.

The efficiency looks better--TBD if it holds up--but he's trending up the past few years--he's not been flat there. But honestly the only question should be can we/Thibs teach him defense--with his 7 and a half foot wingspan--I'm going to go with a big yes. Noah puts up similar to worse efficiency and his game is all put backs and bunnies. So if we can eventually get 1/2 to 2/3 of the defense we win--as we fill a bigger need (offense) and it's at a position where there are less teams with guys to defend it. He's also 23...so there is that.

So honestly he will impact the offense way more than Noah--and the potential is that he gets his defense a little better--it'd be a move in what we need. If we are playing Taj we still have a ridiculous amount of defense on the floor--I mean at some point we want to score points right?
But just because there is some drama in the locker-room doesn't mean we get him.

[Stratmaster]

No, I am referring to the guy that could have been an absolute legend of the game and in conversations with Garnett, Webber, Duncan and Dirk of his era.

Rasheed carved out a very nice career and found his way to a title but the comparison is more about an athlete letting other aspects of life getting in the way of allowing them to become the best possible player they can be.

Cousins, along with Anthony Davis, is the most skilled big man in the league and has the tools to be one the best bigs the league has had in years. Despite this, I'm not sure if he will ever be part of a winning organisation because I don't think he can lead one, and I'm not sure if good programs are going to break the bank on him.

But whether or not he becomes the best Cousins possible is not the issue. Whether or not he can help us win a championship, is the issue.

I know I said earlier that I wouldn't trade Noah for him, but the more I think about it, the more likely I would be to take that chance. If we were able to come back with the below roster, I would really like our chances:

C. Cousins/Anyone better than Nazr
PF.Gibson/Mirotic
SF.Deng/Dunleavy
SG.Butler/Snell
PG.Rose/Augustin/Hinrich

To me, that is the most complete team that we have had post Jordan.

I see that team as very weak at SG, as well as backup PG. Wait, where have I heard that before? Basically, "the same only different". Seriously though, it does improve the Bulls scoring, but is a weaker rebounding and defensive team than currently built.

[sonny]

No, I am referring to the guy that could have been an absolute legend of the game and in conversations with Garnett, Webber, Duncan and Dirk of his era.

Rasheed carved out a very nice career and found his way to a title but the comparison is more about an athlete letting other aspects of life getting in the way of allowing them to become the best possible player they can be.

Cousins, along with Anthony Davis, is the most skilled big man in the league and has the tools to be one the best bigs the league has had in years. Despite this, I'm not sure if he will ever be part of a winning organisation because I don't think he can lead one, and I'm not sure if good programs are going to break the bank on him.

But whether or not he becomes the best Cousins possible is not the issue. Whether or not he can help us win a championship, is the issue.

I know I said earlier that I wouldn't trade Noah for him, but the more I think about it, the more likely I would be to take that chance. If we were able to come back with the below roster, I would really like our chances:

C. Cousins/Anyone better than Nazr
PF.Gibson/Mirotic
SF.Deng/Dunleavy
SG.Butler/Snell
PG.Rose/Augustin/Hinrich

To me, that is the most complete team that we have had post Jordan.

I see that team as very weak at SG, as well as backup PG. Wait, where have I heard that before? Basically, "the same only different". Seriously though, it does improve the Bulls scoring, but is a weaker rebounding and defensive team than currently built.

Cousins is 5th in rebounds. 7th per 48 minutes. Higher than Noah in both regards.

Last year Cousins averaged 1 rebound less than Noah, but was higher in rebounds per 48.

The team has shown that we can be a strong defensive team without Noah.

[kingkirk]

So the guy that has Van Damme beating off as his Real GM signature is critical of someone's maturity. I mean, I can't even read this board in public because somebody might see that. For real man, it's awkward.

Playing the bongos is perfectly normal and mature.

[Stratmaster]

But whether or not he becomes the best Cousins possible is not the issue. Whether or not he can help us win a championship, is the issue.

I know I said earlier that I wouldn't trade Noah for him, but the more I think about it, the more likely I would be to take that chance. If we were able to come back with the below roster, I would really like our chances:

C. Cousins/Anyone better than Nazr
PF.Gibson/Mirotic
SF.Deng/Dunleavy
SG.Butler/Snell
PG.Rose/Augustin/Hinrich

To me, that is the most complete team that we have had post Jordan.

I see that team as very weak at SG, as well as backup PG. Wait, where have I heard that before? Basically, "the same only different". Seriously though, it does improve the Bulls scoring, but is a weaker rebounding and defensive team than currently built.

Cousins is 5th in rebounds. 7th per 48 minutes. Higher than Noah in both regards.

Last year Cousins averaged 1 rebound less than Noah, but was higher in rebounds per 48.

The team has shown that we can be a strong defensive team without Noah.

yes, the rebounding at C is a wash. The rebounding at PF is weaker. And there is no denying it would be a downgrade defensively at C. So, I stand by my statement which was " it does improve the Bulls scoring, but is a weaker rebounding and defensive team than currently built."

[League Circles]

yes, the rebounding at C is a wash. The rebounding at PF is weaker. And there is no denying it would be a downgrade defensively at C. So, I stand by my statement which was " it does improve the Bulls scoring, but is a weaker rebounding and defensive team than currently built."

I gotta somewhat disagree with you here. Taj and Mirotic should both be defensive upgrades over Boozer, and IMO Rose is a defensive upgrade over Kirk, DJ, etc. Also, with a little time, Cousins could very possibly be better in low post defense than Noah, where Noah is average at best, and where we could really use the help vs Hibbert especially. Obviously Cousins won't be the all around defender that Noah is, but frankly he's already a better rebounder than Noah. He's been a better rebounder for quite a while now, at least based on stats (per 36 and rebounding %).

But just defensively, IMO, the upgrade from Boozer to Taj is greater than the downgrade from Noah to Cousins.

[kingkirk]

Yes, but your post stated that you wouldn't trade anything for him. We don't know if it'd cost Noah. A few years ago Anthony would have definitely cost us Noah. This year, if the Knicks decided to trade him, the asking price would be lower. Cousins won't get traded this year, but next year, who knows. At that point, the Kings could prefer a huge expiring contract (like Boozer's if we still have him) + young assets such as picks or Mirotic.

Hyperbole on my end. Obviously i would trade Nazr for him, but in order for a trade to happen, and given he will no longer be on a rookie deal as of next season, to acquire him, you need to give up something substantial.

Boozer won't be here, and even if he was, i am sure that the Kings could get more than his expiring deal and a pick or two.

Cousins has value, but i don't think it would be one of their premier teams in the league who are buying.

If Cousins were to be traded to Chicago, it would like be a deal consisting of Noah/Taj + Mirotic + Pick. I would not do that deal.

Tell that to the Grizzlies after trading for Randolph.

There is always an outlier or an exception to the rule. Randolph matured as a person and was able to find his way. For every Zach Randolph, there are 10 other knuckle heads that never fulfilled their potential.

Unless he completely flops, it won't be the hardest thing to trade him again. We've gotten rid of undesirable contracts before.

If were trading Cousins after acquiring him, obvious something has gone seriously wrong. In that example, not only do you lose Cousins, but you lose the pieces you traded away to get him here. That is the risk with dealing for him.

If he is on his rookie deal, no problems. He won’t be next season, though.

Right. Chicago is vastly different.

Yes, it is. It doesn’t bring in guys with character issues whilst making max money, just like most quality organisations.

Someone mentioned Boston before and their culture that came with the big 3 and that still remains. They haven’t brought in someone like Cousins. The Spurs haven’t. The Heat haven’t.

Opposition teams that are revered by this board don’t take chances on high risk players making big deals. This is not a Chicago Bulls thing.

If Cousins were ever to be traded, i think the chances are he goes to a floundering organisation with nothing to lose before a team with a rich history takes a chance on him.

And what happened to Rasheed Wallace when Detroit took a chance on him?

The Rasheed Wallace comparison was more so about a guy that could have been so much more but let others variables get in his way that prevented him being the best player he could be. I see Cousins in a similar vain. Their issues differ, but DeMarcus has yet to prove to anyone that he is mature enough to move past those issues and become the dominant C he can be with those skills.

This whole discussion is pointless, anyway.

We don’t know if it’s Cousins for sure, and even if it is, he isn’t being traded.

[WinCity]

I know they will trade everbody else instead of Cousins, but if he becomes available bulls have to make a play.

Why would the Bulls have to make a player for a center who refuses to play defense, won't listen to coaches, and has one of the worst attitudes (if not the worst) in the entire NBA?

I certainly get the offensive upside. However, he can't get he Kings any wins. I question how good he really is in terms of helping his team win basketball games. That said, he does have a massive net +/- number this year suggesting he is part of the solution not the problem.

It'd be so hard to root for that guy night in and night out though.

I agree its hard to like him. For the last 1.5 years my cousin has been talking me into the idea the Bulls should acquire Cousins (ironic huh?). I always said he was crazy. He seems like an attitude problem guy, and his play didnt justify the risk. Now, with the numbers he is putting up this season the Bulls putrid offense with no savior in sight, it may be worth it to take a gamble.

[Stratmaster]

yes, the rebounding at C is a wash. The rebounding at PF is weaker. And there is no denying it would be a downgrade defensively at C. So, I stand by my statement which was " it does improve the Bulls scoring, but is a weaker rebounding and defensive team than currently built."

I gotta somewhat disagree with you here. Taj and Mirotic should both be defensive upgrades over Boozer, and IMO Rose is a defensive upgrade over Kirk, DJ, etc. Also, with a little time, Cousins could very possibly be better in low post defense than Noah, where Noah is average at best, and where we could really use the help vs Hibbert especially. Obviously Cousins won't be the all around defender that Noah is, but frankly he's already a better rebounder than Noah. He's been a better rebounder for quite a while now, at least based on stats (per 36 and rebounding %).

But just defensively, IMO, the upgrade from Boozer to Taj is greater than the downgrade from Noah to Cousins.

Taj is already on the team. Taj vs. Taj is a wash. The comparison would be Booz vs. mirotic. I don't see mirotic being a defensive upgrade, he will most likely be a liability just like Boozer. Geesh, he was most recently listed as 6'10" 210'. Which means he is probably barely over 200', at the PF position. He's gonna get pushed around...a lot...if he doesn;t put on some muscle quickly. There is nothing average about noah's defense and as you said, Cousin's will never be the defender noah is. The stats seem to show rebounding a wash, especially when you consider noah is sharing the boards with Boozer and Taj.

[Indomitable]

Taj is already on the team. Taj vs. Taj is a wash. The comparison would be Booz vs. mirotic. I don't see mirotic being a defensive upgrade, he will most likely be a liability just like Boozer. Geesh, he was most recently listed as 6'10" 210'. Which means he is probably barely over 200', at the PF position. He's gonna get pushed around...a lot...if he doesn;t put on some muscle quickly. There is nothing average about noah's defense and as you said, Cousin's will never be the defender noah is. The stats seem to show rebounding a wash, especially when you consider noah is sharing the boards with Boozer and Taj.

http://www.acb.com/jugador.php?id=BGK
He is 6'10.5 and weighed 107kg which is 236 pounds. Where are you getting your numbers?

For this thread

They are not trading Cousins.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

Nikola will be worlds better than Boozer on defense from day 1.

As far as Boogie goes, him and IT called a players only meeting and he called out his team in the media. He's trying to step up as a leader.

[Stratmaster]

Taj is already on the team. Taj vs. Taj is a wash. The comparison would be Booz vs. mirotic. I don't see mirotic being a defensive upgrade, he will most likely be a liability just like Boozer. Geesh, he was most recently listed as 6'10" 210'. Which means he is probably barely over 200', at the PF position. He's gonna get pushed around...a lot...if he doesn;t put on some muscle quickly. There is nothing average about noah's defense and as you said, Cousin's will never be the defender noah is. The stats seem to show rebounding a wash, especially when you consider noah is sharing the boards with Boozer and Taj.

http://www.acb.com/jugador.php?id=BGK
He is 6'10.5 and weighed 107kg which is 236 pounds. Where are you getting your numbers?

For this thread

They are not trading Cousins.

https://www.google.com/search?q=nikola+ ... =firefox-a

[Stratmaster]

Nikola will be worlds better than Boozer on defense from day 1.

As far as Boogie goes, him and IT called a players only meeting and he called out his team in the media. He's trying to step up as a leader.

Well...you said it, it must be true. Tell me how a guy somewhere between 205 and 220 pounds is going to be able to defend PF's in the NBA. With Boozer, we just put Noah on those PF's, because there aren't many scorers at the C position anymore, and Boozer is big enough to at least body up with them.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

Taj is already on the team. Taj vs. Taj is a wash. The comparison would be Booz vs. mirotic. I don't see mirotic being a defensive upgrade, he will most likely be a liability just like Boozer. Geesh, he was most recently listed as 6'10" 210'. Which means he is probably barely over 200', at the PF position. He's gonna get pushed around...a lot...if he doesn;t put on some muscle quickly. There is nothing average about noah's defense and as you said, Cousin's will never be the defender noah is. The stats seem to show rebounding a wash, especially when you consider noah is sharing the boards with Boozer and Taj.

http://www.acb.com/jugador.php?id=BGK
He is 6'10.5 and weighed 107kg which is 236 pounds. Where are you getting your numbers?

For this thread

They are not trading Cousins.

https://www.google.com/search?q=nikola+ ... =firefox-a

I think 6-10 210lbs was what he measured when he was a little baby at Hoop Summit.

[JohnnyKILLroy]

Nikola will be worlds better than Boozer on defense from day 1.

As far as Boogie goes, him and IT called a players only meeting and he called out his team in the media. He's trying to step up as a leader.

Well...you said it, it must be true. Tell me how a guy somewhere between 205 and 220 pounds is going to be able to defend PF's in the NBA. With Boozer, we just put Noah on those PF's, because there aren't many scorers at the C position anymore, and Boozer is big enough to at least body up with them.

You are wrong with his weight.

He could lose an arm and be confined to a wheelchair and still be a better defender than Booz.

[Stratmaster]

http://www.acb.com/jugador.php?id=BGK
He is 6'10.5 and weighed 107kg which is 236 pounds. Where are you getting your numbers?

For this thread

They are not trading Cousins.

https://www.google.com/search?q=nikola+ ... =firefox-a

I think 6-10 210lbs was what he measured when he was a little baby at Hoop Summit.

Well, here is the Real Madrid site.

http://www.realmadrid.com/cs/Satellite/ ... irotic.htm

95 kg, 109 pounds. But are we really going to argue over 5 or 10 pounds and ignore the point? Is he a twig or isn't he?