'14 Draft Thread - Now With a Poll: VOTE OR DIE.

[emunney]

Oden would've rag dolled Dwight Howard. He would've been 2-4th best in league. He beat up Horford and Noah with a sore wrist and would've won the championship if his teammates hit some jumpers. Come on guys it wasn't that long ago.

Most powerful player since Shaq for sure. Impossible to handle around the hoop.

Also, Embiid is an effective interior defender but Oden was a defensive phenom. Only comparison on that end is the physical ability/stature to affect shots.

[skones]

I just don't understand the Paul George comparisons for Wiggins. Paul George was worlds better as a jump shooter.

He was worlds better as a jump shooter than Lebron coming into the NBA too. Just saying

Your point being? Paul George right now remains worlds better than Lebron in that department at the same age. Also, peripheral skill set.......

It seems like EVERY comparison made to Wiggins is made to players based on athleticism alone rather than game or skill set. George was a jumpshooter with a little shake to his game. Wiggins has shown neither at Kansas.

[emunney]

I think Wiggins game is going to translate better in the NBA where he will have better court spacing than he does in college and face a lot less zone.

Embiid is really growing on me, you can tell he is working on his game and improving every night.

However, can we please stop comparing every center that makes more than one pivot to **** Hakeem Olajuwon?

The current version of Embiid reminds you of this? Really? Really really?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXb7dn7yKWk[/youtube]

Remember, Akeem was once 18 years old. He was once very raw. What you see in this video is The Dream in his 11th NBA season. He's 33 years old in that video!! Imagine that. Seriously. If that is Embiid's ceiling...HE"S 18 YEAR'S OLD. Tell me, you wouldn't do everything in your power to draft that and get it in Milwaukee for its entire career. I certainly would.

I was going to say something similar but I got entranced by the video.

[bizarro]

I think Wiggins game is going to translate better in the NBA where he will have better court spacing than he does in college and face a lot less zone.

Embiid is really growing on me, you can tell he is working on his game and improving every night.

However, can we please stop comparing every center that makes more than one pivot to **** Hakeem Olajuwon?

The current version of Embiid reminds you of this? Really? Really really?

Spoiler:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXb7dn7yKWk[/youtube]

Remember, Akeem was once 18 years old. He was once very raw. What you see in this video is The Dream in his 11th NBA season. He's 33 years old in that video!! Imagine that. Seriously. If that is Embiid's ceiling...HE"S 18 YEAR'S OLD. Tell me, you wouldn't do everything in your power to draft that and get it in Milwaukee for its entire career. I certainly would.

I was going to say something similar but I got entranced by the video.

HE'S 32 YEARS OLD IN THAT VIDEO...I'm sorry. I just can't get my heart-rate down. I swear I didn't take Ciallis but I can't seem to get rid of the erection I've had for the 20 minutes since watching that video

[ampd]

I think Wiggins game is going to translate better in the NBA where he will have better court spacing than he does in college and face a lot less zone.

Embiid is really growing on me, you can tell he is working on his game and improving every night.

However, can we please stop comparing every center that makes more than one pivot to **** Hakeem Olajuwon?

The current version of Embiid reminds you of this? Really? Really really?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXb7dn7yKWk[/youtube]

Remember, Akeem was once 18 years old. He was once very raw. What you see in this video is The Dream in his 11th NBA season. He's 33 years old in that video!! Imagine that. Seriously. If that is Embiid's ceiling...HE"S 18 YEAR'S OLD. Tell me, you wouldn't do everything in your power to draft that and get it in Milwaukee for its entire career. I certainly would.

I'm not against drafting Embiid, I just think its insane to assume he will reach a comparable level of skill to Hakeem when the number of other big men with comparable skill in the history of the league is probably less than 3.

He's not even the type of player you can just dump it to and watch him dominate on the offensive end right now, and thats against college "centers" who would often be out physicaled by NBA small forwards. The list of big men with potential that never developed that ability in the NBA is incredibly long.

With that said if we take him, I'd be more excited about our team next season than I have been since the big 3.

I'd be happy with any of Embiid, Parker, or Wiggins in the top 3, and I'm sure as hell not drafting for need.

[ampd]

I just don't understand the Paul George comparisons for Wiggins. Paul George was worlds better as a jump shooter.

He was worlds better as a jump shooter than Lebron coming into the NBA too. Just saying

Your point being? Paul George right now remains worlds better than Lebron in that department at the same age.

It seems like EVERY comparison made to Wiggins is made to players based on athleticism alone rather than game or skill set. George was a jumpshooter with a little shake to his game. Wiggins has shown neither at Kansas.

My point is being an OK shooter in college isn't some kind of guaranteed predictor of future doom, or even that he won't still become a superstar. Wade STILL can't shoot 3s as well as Paul George for example. And rightly, noone gives a ****.

[bizarro]

I'm not against drafting Embiid, I just think its insane to assume he will reach a comparable level of skill to Hakeem when the number of other big men with comparable skill in the history of the league is probably less than 3.

He's not even the type of player you can just dump it to and watch him dominate on the offensive end right now, and thats against college "centers" who would often be out physicaled by NBA small forwards. The list of big men with potential that never developed that ability in the NBA is incredibly long.

I'd be happy with any of Embiid, Parker, or Wiggins in the top 3, and I'm sure as hell not drafting for need.

I understand the reservations. And, it's quite clear where I stand. And, there is only one Akeem, obviously. But, just to put this in proper historical perspective. Instead of showing clips of The Dream into his 11th season in the NBA Finals - a polished HOF'er as a 32 year old (I still can't believe the athleticism I see in that clip from a 7' 32 year old. Amazing), post Akeem's Freshman Year @ Houston. Of course, we live in an entirely different world than that period of time. Embiid is under such a heavy microscope with each game...social media...etc. But, in terms of a realistic comparison, it's the closest thing we have. And, right now, with more pressure and more scrutiny Embiid is definitively a better freshman than The Dream. This obviously doesn't mean anything in the long-term projections. But, it is the only real comparison we can make.

Joel Embiid is a better college freshman than Akeem Olajuwon. And, he could very well never come close to sniffing The Dream's NBA career. But, I take that upside and boom/bust potential 7 days a week over any player in this draft.

EDIT: And I still sit here absolutely befuddled Embiid has a mere 37 votes in this thread.

[ampd]

Rookie Hakeem was still insanely smooth and under control.

I'm really just posting this because its awesome

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgrqJnX7VwY[/youtube]

[breakchains]

The whole Hakeem comparison is somewhat of a red herring. No, he isn't Olajuwon. He's his own prospect who sometimes flashes elements of Hakeem's game that made him great. He will still be a different player overall. Just because he's not a Hakeem clone doesn't make him not a great prospect (triple negative FTW).

[ampd]

I'm not against drafting Embiid, I just think its insane to assume he will reach a comparable level of skill to Hakeem when the number of other big men with comparable skill in the history of the league is probably less than 3.

He's not even the type of player you can just dump it to and watch him dominate on the offensive end right now, and thats against college "centers" who would often be out physicaled by NBA small forwards. The list of big men with potential that never developed that ability in the NBA is incredibly long.

I'd be happy with any of Embiid, Parker, or Wiggins in the top 3, and I'm sure as hell not drafting for need.

I understand the reservations. And, it's quite clear where I stand. And, there is only one Akeem, obviously. But, just to put this in proper historical perspective. Instead of showing clips of The Dream into his 11th season in the NBA Finals - a polished HOF'er as a 32 year old (I still can't believe the athleticism I see in that clip from a 7' 32 year old. Amazing), post Akeem's Freshman Year @ Houston. Of course, we live in an entirely different world than that period of time. Embiid is under such a heavy microscope with each game...social media...etc. But, in terms of a realistic comparison, it's the closest thing we have. And, right now, with more pressure and more scrutiny Embiid is definitively a better freshman than The Dream. This obviously doesn't mean anything in the long-term projections. But, it is the only real comparison we can make.

Joel Embiid is a better college freshman than Akeem Olajuwon. And, he could very well never come close to sniffing The Dream's NBA career. But, I take that upside and boom/bust potential 7 days a week over any player in this draft.

EDIT: And I still sit here absolutely befuddled Embiid has a mere 37 votes in this thread.

I voted Parker a while back but if I had to pick right now it would be a tough choice.

Its hard for me to pass on Parker because he is already so skilled, but its hard to know how much better he can get than he already is, given he doesn't have the kind of eye popping athleticism Embiid and especially Wiggins have.

I also don't really know what to make (if anything) of the fact that the Kansas team as a whole is a giant disappointment at 9-4.

[bizarro]

Rookie Hakeem was still insanely smooth and under control.

I'm really just posting this because its awesome

I know. I watched rookie Hakeem.

But, that was also after 3 years of college ball. Embiid has only played 3 years of basketball. Who knows what he would look like after 3 full college seasons. It's an unrealistic comparison given the nature of college hoops these days. Who knows. I just like the boom/bust potential far and away beyond what I see from anyone else.

[bizarro]

I'm not against drafting Embiid, I just think its insane to assume he will reach a comparable level of skill to Hakeem when the number of other big men with comparable skill in the history of the league is probably less than 3.

He's not even the type of player you can just dump it to and watch him dominate on the offensive end right now, and thats against college "centers" who would often be out physicaled by NBA small forwards. The list of big men with potential that never developed that ability in the NBA is incredibly long.

I'd be happy with any of Embiid, Parker, or Wiggins in the top 3, and I'm sure as hell not drafting for need.

I understand the reservations. And, it's quite clear where I stand. And, there is only one Akeem, obviously. But, just to put this in proper historical perspective. Instead of showing clips of The Dream into his 11th season in the NBA Finals - a polished HOF'er as a 32 year old (I still can't believe the athleticism I see in that clip from a 7' 32 year old. Amazing), post Akeem's Freshman Year @ Houston. Of course, we live in an entirely different world than that period of time. Embiid is under such a heavy microscope with each game...social media...etc. But, in terms of a realistic comparison, it's the closest thing we have. And, right now, with more pressure and more scrutiny Embiid is definitively a better freshman than The Dream. This obviously doesn't mean anything in the long-term projections. But, it is the only real comparison we can make.

Joel Embiid is a better college freshman than Akeem Olajuwon. And, he could very well never come close to sniffing The Dream's NBA career. But, I take that upside and boom/bust potential 7 days a week over any player in this draft.

EDIT: And I still sit here absolutely befuddled Embiid has a mere 37 votes in this thread.

I voted Parker a while back but if I had to pick right now it would be a tough choice.

Its hard for me to pass on Parker because he is already so skilled, but its hard to know how much better he can get than he already is, given he doesn't have the kind of eye popping athleticism Embiid and especially Wiggins have.

I also don't really know what to make (if anything) of the fact that the Kansas team as a whole is a giant disappointment at 9-4.

It's all about guards in the college game. Kansas has a very very uninspiring backcourt. They continually fail to impress whatsoever.

[skones]

He was worlds better as a jump shooter than Lebron coming into the NBA too. Just saying

Your point being? Paul George right now remains worlds better than Lebron in that department at the same age.

It seems like EVERY comparison made to Wiggins is made to players based on athleticism alone rather than game or skill set. George was a jumpshooter with a little shake to his game. Wiggins has shown neither at Kansas.

My point is being an OK shooter in college isn't some kind of guaranteed predictor of future doom, or even that he won't still become a superstar. Wade STILL can't shoot 3s as well as Paul George for example. And rightly, noone gives a ****.

Again, the point comes back to peripheral skill set which Wiggins doesn't necessarily bring to the table like both Paul George and Wade actually did. Wade could handle the ball and had vision. George could shoot, and by the time he came to the NBA, was actually a pretty damn solid ball handler for a guy his size. He also demonstrated, despite a high turnover ratio, the ability to get others involved. Wade was able to succeed without a three point shot because he was fantastic in other areas. Why that's an example used in making an argument for Wiggins is beyond me.

Anyone still calling Wiggins an "OK shooter in college" isn't paying attention. He's an "ok shooter in college" in the sense that Marcus Smart is an "ok shooter in college." Neither player is. Wiggins is now shooting 29.1% on jumpers inside the arc vs. 31.1% outside the arc for a grand total of 30% on jumpers. For comparisons sake, Smart himself is 32.4% vs. 31.5% in the same categories. Wiggins is a BAD shooter.

[AussieBuck]

Two questions for Skones:

Has Wiggins taken 100 jumpers yet in his college career?

Did Wiggins run over your dog then have his way with your girl?

[ampd]

I'm not comparing the other aspects of Wade / George to Wiggins, just saying that plenty of other players have improved their shooting in the NBA or succeeded despite being below average shooters. Wiggins is hitting almost 80% from the line which is encouraging.

The question isn't really whether he has exactly the same qualities that George / Wade / whoever has that enabled them to overcome their perceived limitations, but rather whether he generally has qualities that might enable him to either improve his areas of weakness or overcome those limitations. I think there is evidence that he does.

Any team drafting him might have to expect a John Wall type development curve out of him. I don't think that means he is destined to be a bust.

[skones]

Two questions for Skones:

Has Wiggins taken 100 jumpers yet in his college career?

Did Wiggins run over your dog then have his way with your girl?

Exactly 100 in fact.

I'm not comparing the other aspects of Wade / George to Wiggins, just saying that plenty of other players have improved their shooting in the NBA or succeeded despite being below average shooters. Wiggins is hitting almost 80% from the line which is encouraging.

The question isn't really whether he has exactly the same qualities that George / Wade / whoever has that enabled them to overcome their perceived limitations, but rather whether he generally has qualities that might enable him to either improve his areas of weakness or overcome those limitations. I think there is evidence that he does.

Any team drafting him might have to expect a John Wall type development curve out of him. I don't think that means he is destined to be a bust.

This is my whole schtick. Very few players come to the NBA and suddenly acquire brand new skills that they didn't have coming into the league. Those that succeed, generally do so on a refinement standpoint. They have certain skills in place, certain things that are considered strengths at one level, certain things that are focused upon to become strengths at the next level. My primary worry is that Wiggins doesn't have a whole lot of strengths at his current level to really built upon to be worthy of such a high selection. What's even worse, Wiggins doesn't seem to have the intangibles to really WANT to be THE guy on a team. Even Rose, who was deemed relatively passive at Memphis, had moments where he completely imposed his will on games. Wiggins has yet to do that and we're about a week from the season's halfway point.

As far as John Wall, I think injuries have held his development curve in check for a while now, but that's an entirely different argument.

[Nebula1]

Rookie Hakeem was still insanely smooth and under control.

I'm really just posting this because its awesome

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgrqJnX7VwY[/youtube]

Nice. Greatest center ever in my eyes and thanks for posting.

[Nebula1]

If I'm the NBA with the ability to place players via the draft lottery, I'd like to see:

Bucks - Wiggins
Sixers - Parker
Lakers - Embiid
Kings - Exum
Magic - Smart
Jazz - Randle




I've gotten a pretty good taste of the major prospects now and my #1 is staying Wiggins. Granted real games are finally starting but I really like what I've seen from Wiggins. Obviously the other guys are exciting too, but not enough to move my vote yet.

[Ayt]

Embiid doesn't touch Hakeem as an athlete. They just aren't comparable in that way. It was absurd how Hakeem could move at his size.

The guy was a marvel.

[paulpressey25]

Embiid doesn't touch Hakeem as an athlete. They just aren't comparable in that way. It was absurd how Hakeem could move at his size.

The guy was a marvel.

Embiid may or may not equal Hakeem as an athlete. One of the problems we are having though is looking at Hakeem via all these videos from his career with the Rockets. This is after three years of college and in most cases 5-15 years in the NBA. What happened was Hakeem perfected all those moves through hundreds/thousands of games, so the fluidity you see is a result of intuition in addition to athleticism. People can mix-up the two.

Give Embiid time, and the odds are his moves will be even more intuitive and done "quicker" as he learns the game. The difference between him today and just two months ago is striking.

As for AMPD's comment on Embiid not being dominant in the post, that too has changed. Kansas could arguably run him in the blocks on every single play. Frankly I'd do that if I were them. Embiid has shown a great ability to kick the ball to the open man on the three point line when he's double and triple teamed.

In regards to Oden, I think Oden at this stage was a better defender. But as we all recall, everyone was fearful of whether or not he could do anything on offense. He didn't do much until that 25 point outburst in the title game. Embiid still has three months more of games to learn before he reaches that point in his career (i.e. where Oden was)