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Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas

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KJandHondo35
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Re: Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas 

Post#1341 » by KJandHondo35 » Wed Jan 8, 2014 1:23 am

24istheLAW wrote:Hayward and Green are very different players.

Hayward:
AST% - 23.4
TOV% - 13.6
TRB% - 8.3

Green
AST% - 7.8
TOV% - 11.8
TRB% - 7.7

Hayward is a playmaker and has a very high BBIQ. Green's BBIQ is nonexistent as we all know. On the other hand, Green defends small forwards at a great level, while Hayward isn't much of a defender once you get past steals and blocks (he blocks more shots than Green).

The real concern with Hayward is that he's shooting .309 from 3-pt range this year. He shot .400 in his first three years so there's cause for optimism. But unless he's going to that %age back up, investing in him to be an offense-first wing is a non starter.

Well you have to consider that for the games with outBurke Hayward was the ball handler most likely causing is % Ast to be inflated this year, its probably closer to 16-17% which it has been in the previous 2 years. He has better passing ability than Green but only by about 2 per game, and with the with one of the best creators in the NBA on the Celtics roster in Rondo I have to favor the % of putting the ball in the basket over 2 extra assists per game. Especially when you have KO, Sully and Crawford already showing the ability to pass for their position.
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Re: Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas 

Post#1342 » by CelticFaninLBC » Wed Jan 8, 2014 1:29 am

KJandHondo35 wrote:
CelticFaninLBC wrote:
KJandHondo35 wrote:Since they got a ROY caliber PG his %s has gone down compared to when he was the primary ball handler and SG/scorer... Those last 24 games Trey Burke has played Hayward has shot 38% FG and 28% from 3?


I was looking @ his last 7 games... Hayward was a 40% 3 point shooter prior to this year fwiw...

Well if he can somehow resurrect his abysmal shooting numbers that will be one thing, but as of right now he is one of the least efficient guards in the NBA. He also plays close to no defense so he has to do A LOT to show me he's even close to the level of Avery who is a guy i think they need to improve on. From every statistical standpoint Hayward is worse than everyone currently on the Cs roster which isn't so good... The idea of overpaying him to steal him from Utah makes me nauseous.


I know you're an advanced stats guy, so will throw this out there. Hayward has a higher win share (1.7) this year, than Bradley (1.2), and has (13.2) in his career versus Bradley's (3.6). (Hayward has played more games than Bradley in his career though, as Bradley has been injury prone). It appears Hayward is much better at creating for others than Bradley.
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Re: Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas 

Post#1343 » by 165bows » Wed Jan 8, 2014 1:31 am

Judging Hayward on this past half season makes little to no sense. He's got a strong enough history shooting from three I don't think that's a great concern. Most good shooters go through a down year, unless you are Ray Allen.

I wouldn't give up a bunch for him, but I would swap Green for him straight up, and I'm one that tends to overvalue this team's players compared to other team's guys.

There was an interesting blurb in Zach Lowe's column from the end of last week about Boston's 'big' lineups. Basically, where Green and Wallace play at the 2 and 3 spots with two traditional big men. His statistics about the lineup reinforced the eye test that that lineup has stunk, but that they continue to go to it with some regularity.

Makes me think that Hayward as a part time three, part time big two is something they would be interested in.
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Re: Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas 

Post#1344 » by KJandHondo35 » Wed Jan 8, 2014 1:45 am

CelticFaninLBC wrote:
KJandHondo35 wrote:
CelticFaninLBC wrote:
I was looking @ his last 7 games... Hayward was a 40% 3 point shooter prior to this year fwiw...

Well if he can somehow resurrect his abysmal shooting numbers that will be one thing, but as of right now he is one of the least efficient guards in the NBA. He also plays close to no defense so he has to do A LOT to show me he's even close to the level of Avery who is a guy i think they need to improve on. From every statistical standpoint Hayward is worse than everyone currently on the Cs roster which isn't so good... The idea of overpaying him to steal him from Utah makes me nauseous.


I know you're an advanced stats guy, so will throw this out there. Hayward has a higher win share (1.7) this year, than Bradley (1.2), and has (13.2) in his career versus Bradley's (3.6). (Hayward has played more games than Bradley in his career though, as Bradley has been injury prone). It appears Hayward is much better at creating for others than Bradley.


I'll have to give you that thats the 1st statistic supporting Hayward over the guys we already have. Green has a better WS over the last 4 seasons at 16.4 but yeah he kills Bradley in that standpoint. My only thought that could possibly support Avery is this year he finally is finding some sort of stroke and has an almost equal WS so far to Hayward in a bad statistical season. So maybe they are arguably comparable but there is a load of guys that would be more desirable than both of them if we want to improve at SG.
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Re: Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas 

Post#1345 » by CelticFaninLBC » Wed Jan 8, 2014 1:49 am

KJandHondo35 wrote:
I'll have to give you that thats the 1st statistic supporting Hayward over the guys we already have. Green has a better WS over the last 4 seasons at 16.4 but yeah he kills Bradley in that standpoint. My only thought that could possibly support Avery is this year he finally is finding some sort of stroke and has an almost equal WS so far to Hayward in a bad statistical season. So maybe they are arguably comparable but there is a load of guys that would be more desirable than both of them if we want to improve at SG.


Well both are only 23 and still developing, and maybe Ainge's plan is to move Rondo... Hence the desire for a sg, who helps others score...
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Re: Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas 

Post#1346 » by KJandHondo35 » Wed Jan 8, 2014 1:50 am

165bows wrote:Judging Hayward on this past half season makes little to no sense. He's got a strong enough history shooting from three I don't think that's a great concern. Most good shooters go through a down year, unless you are Ray Allen.

I wouldn't give up a bunch for him, but I would swap Green for him straight up, and I'm one that tends to overvalue this team's players compared to other team's guys.

There was an interesting blurb in Zach Lowe's column from the end of last week about Boston's 'big' lineups. Basically, where Green and Wallace play at the 2 and 3 spots with two traditional big men. His statistics about the lineup reinforced the eye test that that lineup has stunk, but that they continue to go to it with some regularity.

Makes me think that Hayward as a part time three, part time big two is something they would be interested in.


But Playing Wallace in any lineup configuration is gonna suck, the guy is done and can barley shoot for anything more than 5' from the hoop. I personally love the ability to put Green in as 2 but when the 3 next to him is brick city its never gonna work. Then compounding that out "bigs" if you can even call them that are not big, all of them with the exception of a rookie/poor defensive Fav are PF so your not really + sized in any position other than green at 2, the rest of which is a mismatch.
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Re: Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas 

Post#1347 » by 15th overall » Wed Jan 8, 2014 1:54 am

I'd love Hayward at a Jeff Greenish type of deal but it sounds like he's pushing for 8 figures. That's the kind of deal that transforms a player from underrated to overrated immediately.
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Re: Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas 

Post#1348 » by KJandHondo35 » Wed Jan 8, 2014 1:59 am

Bradley for Hayward, if you hit me over the head with a sock full of pennies I would consider... Green for Hayward I would say your crazy... unless your content with being horrible and trade rondo too because no way Rondo- Bradley- Hayward do anything but lose aggressively until Rondo's contract is up.
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Re: Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas 

Post#1349 » by Andrew McCeltic » Wed Jan 8, 2014 2:16 am

Why do we want Hayward on a long term contract? You don't rush to lock down that position during a rebuild, unless it's for a star. We could have Parker or Wiggins or Gordon in 6 months instead, at half the money.
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Re: Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas 

Post#1350 » by KJandHondo35 » Wed Jan 8, 2014 2:19 am

andy582 wrote:Why do we want Hayward on a long term contract? You don't rush to lock down that position during a rebuild, unless it's for a star. We could have Parker or Wiggins or Gordon in 6 months instead, at half the money.

I personally don't want anything to do with him but it seems I'm in the minority for some reason.
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Re: Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas 

Post#1351 » by brackdan70 » Wed Jan 8, 2014 6:19 am

Hayward went off on the Thunder tonight, 37, 11, 7 along with 2 steals and a block.
he is a legit NBA scorer and can play the 2 and 3. dude is 23 yrs old. I'd pay him 4 years and 50 million to be our starting 2 guard. He will average 17, 6 and 6 conservatively going forward, probably better.
Jordan Walsh goes top 10 in a 2023 redraft.
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Re: Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas 

Post#1352 » by brackdan70 » Wed Jan 8, 2014 6:46 am

andy582 wrote:Why do we want Hayward on a long term contract? You don't rush to lock down that position during a rebuild, unless it's for a star. We could have Parker or Wiggins or Gordon in 6 months instead, at half the money.


pretty unlikely that we have Parker or Wiggins and pretty unlikely that Gordon is any where near as good as Hayward.
Jordan Walsh goes top 10 in a 2023 redraft.
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Re: Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas 

Post#1353 » by brackdan70 » Wed Jan 8, 2014 6:50 am

165bows wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/billsimmons/status/420656463959183360[/tweet]


It seems unlikely that we will have enough room to make an offer to him unless we don't offer QO to bradley.
I wouldn't mind trading for him though and then seeing what the market is to match for him. Wonder what it would take to get Utah to answer the phone?
Jordan Walsh goes top 10 in a 2023 redraft.
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Re: Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas 

Post#1354 » by brackdan70 » Wed Jan 8, 2014 6:50 am

Jordan Walsh goes top 10 in a 2023 redraft.
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Re: Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas 

Post#1355 » by 15th overall » Wed Jan 8, 2014 1:34 pm

Just listened to that BS report... sounds like this is entirely Simmons' opinion and not an actual rumor.
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Re: Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas 

Post#1356 » by BleedGreen1989 » Wed Jan 8, 2014 2:37 pm

^^^Yeah it is an idea. I don't think anybody was saying it was an actual rumor but Simmons had a "hunch".

I doubt the Brad Stevens/Gordon Hayward connection will ever really go away.
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Re: Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas 

Post#1357 » by ParticleMan » Wed Jan 8, 2014 2:46 pm

15th overall wrote:I'd love Hayward at a Jeff Greenish type of deal but it sounds like he's pushing for 8 figures. That's the kind of deal that transforms a player from underrated to overrated immediately.


this.

we're paying green 9mil who should be making 6mil. it would just compound the problem to pay hayward 13mil when he should make 9mil. better to try o move green for someone who is fairer value.
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Re: Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas 

Post#1358 » by LobCityRondo2KG » Wed Jan 8, 2014 2:56 pm

If we give Hayward 9 Million a year i think Utah would just match...

Believe they have to sign Favors and Hayward this offseason and then Kanter hits Restricted Free Agency next yr..

They also have a ton of salary coming off the books after this season
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Re: Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas 

Post#1359 » by CelticFaninLBC » Wed Jan 8, 2014 3:06 pm

LobCityRondo2KG wrote:If we give Hayward 9 Million a year i think Utah would just match...

Believe they have to sign Favors and Hayward this offseason and then Kanter hits Restricted Free Agency next yr..

They also have a ton of salary coming off the books after this season


Favors already resigned for 4 & 47. Hayward is reported to want at least 4 & 50, and Utah may not want to pay him more than Favors...
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Re: Trade Landscape/Trade Ideas 

Post#1360 » by ParticleMan » Wed Jan 8, 2014 3:15 pm

LobCityRondo2KG wrote:If we give Hayward 9 Million a year i think Utah would just match...


yup, which is why i'm not in favor of going after hayward.

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