ImageImageImageImageImage

If you took over as GM today, what would you do?

Moderators: LyricalRico, nate33, montestewart

Dat2U
RealGM
Posts: 24,190
And1: 7,984
Joined: Jun 23, 2001
Location: Columbus, OH
       

Re: If you took over as GM today, what would you do? 

Post#401 » by Dat2U » Wed Jan 8, 2014 9:11 pm

TGW wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:
TGW wrote:I don't like Monroe at all...his defense is poor on and off the ball. These days, it's almost mandatory that a competitive defensive team have a rim protector that can defend the paint. You need that, a wing defender, and a point guard that can stop dribble penetration. We struggle on all counts, so having Monroe as the last line of defense would be disastrous.


And there's the rub, if you're not bringing anyone back, who are you going to sign to replace them? FA crop is pretty weak, but you can probably get 3 or 4 good bench players for $10 mil or less total.


Just because you have caproom doesn't mean you have to use it on someone. Instead of dropping huge money on players that won't make us a contender, I think we'd be better of doing more trades where we take on some other teams expiring crap for picks and assets—much like the Hinrich maneuver. That way, we still keep long-term cap flexibility while gaining some assets. I'm willing to take a small step back in order to build a contender.


Exactly, it's not just about having to use cap room on free agents. Cap flexibility is actually good thing. I never understood why GMs felt the need to lock themselves into unfavorable long term deals simply because they had the cap room available to do so (cough, Joe Dumars, cough).

My target this offseason is Jordan Hill... not sure who brought up the idea first, but I'd rather have him on a modest deal than giving near max or max money to Greg Monroe.
Dat2U
RealGM
Posts: 24,190
And1: 7,984
Joined: Jun 23, 2001
Location: Columbus, OH
       

Re: If you took over as GM today, what would you do? 

Post#402 » by Dat2U » Wed Jan 8, 2014 9:15 pm

fishercob wrote:
Is it a fire sale or not?? :D

I don't think trading away some of the non core guys is a bad idea in and of itself. But it obviously depends on the return. What's more important is not that the current roster be dismantled,(as that -- in and of itself -- accomplishes nothing), but rather that systems are put into place so we are selecting the right players in drafts, trades and free agency.

Draft well and you have an asset base from which to trade. Sign good players to fair contracts and you have more assets -- not to mention guys who will help you on the floor. Trade for undervalued assets.

With the right person calling the shots the future would be quite bright here.


Well kind of a fire sale and a partial dismantling of the roster. And yes, I think it accomplishes a lot, especially if you can get any value for two free agents who ideally won't be coming back. And definitely accomplishes a lot if you can find a taker among the playoff teams for Nene.

Having the right systems in place goes without saying but contrary to your opinion, I think our roster situation requires a bit of clean up prior to going into the off-season. Especially since I see re-signing Gortat & Ariza as far from ideal options. Instead of letting them go for nothing, I'd try to get some value out of their expiring deals.
User avatar
Rafael122
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 20,850
And1: 3,573
Joined: Oct 11, 2004
       

Re: If you took over as GM today, what would you do? 

Post#403 » by Rafael122 » Wed Jan 8, 2014 9:40 pm

Dat2U wrote:
TGW wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:
And there's the rub, if you're not bringing anyone back, who are you going to sign to replace them? FA crop is pretty weak, but you can probably get 3 or 4 good bench players for $10 mil or less total.


Just because you have caproom doesn't mean you have to use it on someone. Instead of dropping huge money on players that won't make us a contender, I think we'd be better of doing more trades where we take on some other teams expiring crap for picks and assets—much like the Hinrich maneuver. That way, we still keep long-term cap flexibility while gaining some assets. I'm willing to take a small step back in order to build a contender.


Exactly, it's not just about having to use cap room on free agents. Cap flexibility is actually good thing. I never understood why GMs felt the need to lock themselves into unfavorable long term deals simply because they had the cap room available to do so (cough, Joe Dumars, cough).

My target this offseason is Jordan Hill... not sure who brought up the idea first, but I'd rather have him on a modest deal than giving near max or max money to Greg Monroe.


So use the cap room to trade for someone with a big contract. Like?
Bickerstaff: who's up for kickball?!!
Ed Wood: Only if it's the no-pants variety.
Dat2U
RealGM
Posts: 24,190
And1: 7,984
Joined: Jun 23, 2001
Location: Columbus, OH
       

Re: If you took over as GM today, what would you do? 

Post#404 » by Dat2U » Wed Jan 8, 2014 9:46 pm

Rafael122 wrote:
Dat2U wrote:
TGW wrote:
Just because you have caproom doesn't mean you have to use it on someone. Instead of dropping huge money on players that won't make us a contender, I think we'd be better of doing more trades where we take on some other teams expiring crap for picks and assets—much like the Hinrich maneuver. That way, we still keep long-term cap flexibility while gaining some assets. I'm willing to take a small step back in order to build a contender.


Exactly, it's not just about having to use cap room on free agents. Cap flexibility is actually good thing. I never understood why GMs felt the need to lock themselves into unfavorable long term deals simply because they had the cap room available to do so (cough, Joe Dumars, cough).

My target this offseason is Jordan Hill... not sure who brought up the idea first, but I'd rather have him on a modest deal than giving near max or max money to Greg Monroe.


So use the cap room to trade for someone with a big contract. Like?


I don't know the answer. I don't see the future. Neither did Rockets GM Daryl Morey. And that's fine. Nothing wrong with being patient. Unless your an idiot GM with $15 to $25 mil in cap room burning a hole in your pocket and the desperate need to spend it on whoever will take it, lol.
Dat2U
RealGM
Posts: 24,190
And1: 7,984
Joined: Jun 23, 2001
Location: Columbus, OH
       

Re: If you took over as GM today, what would you do? 

Post#405 » by Dat2U » Wed Jan 8, 2014 9:48 pm

barelyawake wrote:The question was never if Okafor would make us better. It was would his and Ariza's expiring contract (plus the ability to trade future picks) get us a player demanding a trade. Let's see who becomes available at trade deadline. Once the injury occurred, the move should have been to tank.

I agree about the poor construction in that I have always advocated for building around a big first -- thus the reason why I wanted Drummond over Beal and bigs for the last few drafts (barring Wall's).


Cap room is a helluva lot more valuable than Okafor or Ariza on an expiring contract so that excuse really doesn't pass the smell test.
Ruzious
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,909
And1: 11,582
Joined: Jul 17, 2001
       

Re: If you took over as GM today, what would you do? 

Post#406 » by Ruzious » Wed Jan 8, 2014 10:28 pm

Dat2U wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Over the course of the year, Gortat likely won't be significantly better or worse than the average starting center, imo.

Btw, Sanders has hardly played this season.


I'd say Gortat is clearly a below average starting C, and clearly an above average backup C. He's really not that far from being the Trevor Booker of PFs. When you start talking about starting Cs less productive than Gortat, it's a pretty ugly list, off the top of my head I can name more than 20 Cs that I'd take over Gortat.

At the end of the season, figure out what the stats are for the average NBA starting center, and compare those stats to his. If there's a significant difference, I'll be surprised.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 24,841
And1: 9,223
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Re: If you took over as GM today, what would you do? 

Post#407 » by payitforward » Wed Jan 8, 2014 11:07 pm

barelyawake wrote:
jivelikenice wrote:Two players are playing well; Wall & Ariza....

And yet, this board seems to give no credit for getting Ariza or Okafor for the periods where he was very productive.

EG needs to go. But, we tend to focus on everything he has done poorly and not those things he did that turned out well.

Sorry, but I think you have that altogether wrong. The criticism of Ernie was of the trade -- not a suggestion that either Okafor or Ariza were bad basketball players.

The trade was an obvious mistake, because we threw away flexibility that would have helped enormously in rebuilding the Washington Wizards into a team w/ a future and the possibility to contend. We did this because Ted blinked. Fans didn't like the rebuild and the time it was taking and the awful results Ernie was getting in doing the rebuild -- in particular the horrific 2011 draft that, had it been handled well instead of badly, would have provided a huge step up for us.

So instead of using our flexibility and assets to acquire significant young talent, we traded it away for Okafor -- who gave us 2000 minutes of very good play for $14m and then succumbed to injury (as you might have expected him to do given his history, his age, and our need to play him more than he could handle). Ariza played well last year and this year -- he's always been a pretty good player.

And what "turned out well" from that trade? That we won 29 games last year? That we had to give away a round 1 pick in a deep draft in order to have anyone at all to start on opening night? That in 4 years and with what might have been the best set of draft and other assets of any team in the league, our GM has managed to take us to a 15-17 team??
payitforward
RealGM
Posts: 24,841
And1: 9,223
Joined: May 02, 2012
Location: On the Atlantic

Re: If you took over as GM today, what would you do? 

Post#408 » by payitforward » Wed Jan 8, 2014 11:19 pm

barelyawake wrote:The fact that Oak got injured before that season started should have been anticipated? Why? Because of age? Of course, all the other players who dominate despite age should have been anticipated as well? It's pretty easy to be a detractor. Most basketball teams fail. If you are only a detractor, you will live a long life. It's harder actually playing for real money.

Yes, the Okafor/Ariza trade would have been good minus the injury.

Wasn't it you who called Harrington "the best backup forward in basketball" -- hmmm?

Wasn't it you who applauded the signing of Eric Maynor?

Those who criticized the foolish, wasteful Okariza trade weren't "detractors", whatever that means. Every one of us had and has ideas -- no doubt some good and others not so good -- about what this franchise needed and still needs to do to actually turn around its miserable past. Starting w/ showing the door to the guy who created a decade of that misery.

So, no, without Okafor's injury it was still an awful trade. With it, it's worse because it also cost us a round 1 pick -- just so we could have a player, any player, who could start at the 5 on opening night!

Oh, and actually "most basketball teams fail" is false. As many do well as do badly. It's a bell-shaped curve. You're just consoling yourself for failure by imagining you're part of a crowd of failures. Nope. Ernie stands alone; there's no GM in the league who has kept his job with such a record of failure.
barelyawake
Head Coach
Posts: 6,099
And1: 685
Joined: Aug 07, 2004

Re: If you took over as GM today, what would you do? 

Post#409 » by barelyawake » Thu Jan 9, 2014 1:18 am

payitforward wrote:
barelyawake wrote:The fact that Oak got injured before that season started should have been anticipated? Why? Because of age? Of course, all the other players who dominate despite age should have been anticipated as well? It's pretty easy to be a detractor. Most basketball teams fail. If you are only a detractor, you will live a long life. It's harder actually playing for real money.

Yes, the Okafor/Ariza trade would have been good minus the injury.

Wasn't it you who called Harrington "the best backup forward in basketball" -- hmmm?

Wasn't it you who applauded the signing of Eric Maynor?

Those who criticized the foolish, wasteful Okariza trade weren't "detractors", whatever that means. Every one of us had and has ideas -- no doubt some good and others not so good -- about what this franchise needed and still needs to do to actually turn around its miserable past. Starting w/ showing the door to the guy who created a decade of that misery.

So, no, without Okafor's injury it was still an awful trade. With it, it's worse because it also cost us a round 1 pick -- just so we could have a player, any player, who could start at the 5 on opening night!

Oh, and actually "most basketball teams fail" is false. As many do well as do badly. It's a bell-shaped curve. You're just consoling yourself for failure by imagining you're part of a crowd of failures. Nope. Ernie stands alone; there's no GM in the league who has kept his job with such a record of failure.


Lol payit, you really do need a friend in real life beyond the numbers. Perhaps then you could stop being an annoying cuss who needed five pages of explanation to understand sarcasm. Actual human interaction is a healthy thing... especially during the holidays.

Keep misrepresenting my posts all you wish. I wanted Marco in the offseason (who is having a stellar season, hell I wanted him back in the draft). And I gave the signing of Maynor a C. And I said Harrington, when healthy three years ago, was the best back-up power forward. I said if healthy, his acquisition for the price was good. We obviously didn't get that Harrington. If I had my way, Drummond would have been on the roster. Its apparent from your posts that you have little left to hope for in life, but some of us fans get optimistic during the offseason. We overestimate wins and such.

And every team that doesn't win a title failed, since that should be every team's goal. So, yes, most teams fail.

PS Have you ever once given an opinion about what should be done? Several posters have called you on merely chiding Ernie but never offering any positive ideas. This thread is about what should be done now. And I don't hear many ideas in that regard that are remotely realistic -- like fire selling the team during a playoff run.

PPS Back to the aim of the thread, Monroe is not the answer.

PPPS The big idea from this board this offseason was to give tens of millions to Ersan. Where's the self-deprecation on that front? Aren't you glad we didn't lock ourselves into that mess?
User avatar
TGW
RealGM
Posts: 13,397
And1: 6,796
Joined: Oct 22, 2010

Re: If you took over as GM today, what would you do? 

Post#410 » by TGW » Thu Jan 9, 2014 1:20 am

I actually would still buy low on Ersan. His value is dirt cheap right now.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
Hidden Eye
Pro Prospect
Posts: 972
And1: 380
Joined: Oct 26, 2013
 

Re: If you took over as GM today, what would you do? 

Post#411 » by Hidden Eye » Thu Jan 9, 2014 6:04 am

Hire George Karl as the head coach.
montestewart
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 14,828
And1: 7,961
Joined: Feb 25, 2009

Re: If you took over as GM today, what would you do? 

Post#412 » by montestewart » Thu Jan 9, 2014 6:17 am

Hidden Eye wrote:Hire George Karl as the head coach.

I'll bet he'd figure out a way to offload Nene's bloated contract
User avatar
Chocolate City Jordanaire
RealGM
Posts: 54,916
And1: 10,488
Joined: Aug 05, 2001
       

Re: If you took over as GM today, what would you do? 

Post#413 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Thu Jan 9, 2014 7:21 am

1. Fire myself. I might help with scouting and assist players behind the scenes at most.

2. Decision I as interim GM would hope for is push Ernie up. He stays as long as Ted Leonsis pleases. Like Tom in the Godfather, he's a loyal guy. Create a title and let him scout Europe, Israel, and let EG be the top adviser to his friend, Mr Leonsis.

3. I want Troy Weaver as GM.

4. Keep Randy Edsall. Dude is a decent enough coach but more, he is a stand up man and a good father. Players have to respect that. Dads have to be disciplinarian at times. Also mentor. Also friend. And loyal. Not throw guys under the bus and keep crap going. (I screw up as a dad enough to have empathy. I like Randy's style).

5. If Randy falters, Reggie Theus or Shaka Smart would be guys to consider. Ron Jeremy...errr, Stan Van Gundy is another. Steve Nash if he retires would get a call, too, about head coaching.

6. I would waive Chris Singleton because he will stick elsewhere. I would seek to trade him for Will Barton first.

7. I would resign Gortat and I would KEEP Jan Vesely. Send him to visit CCJ in Hawaii and his FTs will.be over 75% and eventually the ovet 80% within 3 years--or MUCH less. Jesus can certainly influence CCJ'S shooting and Jan can simply watch and learn. Angel sssisted training. :grin

8. I.think all the Wizards need is a D League big or international big. Haven't researched but Paul Davis, D'Or Fisher, or a seven footer who blocks shots and plays intelligent ball can assist this team.

9. Get a white PG. Trade for Blake or Ridnour or WOLTERS or Deladova. That or drsft Craft. Why white? They are the minority in the NBA. They have be BETTER just to get respect. They can't play too recklessly. They have to scrap but ve perceived as cool.

10. Try to trade for Pau and Nash or Blake. Offer Seraphin, Nene , Ariza, Singleton, and if he can be included, Eric Maynor. Even add a 2016 first if necessary.

The Lakers are in crisis. Nene is a godly, warrior of a player who Kobe will like and respect. Pau is a HOF baller who is being disrespected. He and Otto pass well. Washington would be TERRIFIC wth Pau and Marcin and Jan. Bynum might even sign on just for the playoffs.

End game is cap space or trade asset acquisition to go for Love or Cousins.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using RealGM Forums mobile app
The Wizards shoukd have drafted Derik Queen

I told you so :banghead:
verbal8
General Manager
Posts: 8,354
And1: 1,377
Joined: Jul 20, 2006
Location: Herndon, VA
     

Re: If you took over as GM today, what would you do? 

Post#414 » by verbal8 » Thu Jan 9, 2014 12:55 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:2. Decision I as interim GM would hope for is push Ernie up. He stays as long as Ted Leonsis pleases. Like Tom in the Godfather, he's a loyal guy. Create a title and let him scout Europe, Israel, and let EG be the top adviser to his friend, Mr Leonsis.

Short of Ernie retiring that may be the best hope for the Wizards.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:5. If Randy falters, Reggie Theus or Shaka Smart would be guys to consider. Ron Jeremy...errr, Stan Van Gundy is another. Steve Nash if he retires would get a call, too, about head coaching.

I would want a retired Steve Nash on the staff, but I am not sold on a player jumping right into head coaching.


Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:7. I would resign Gortat and I would KEEP Jan Vesely. Send him to visit CCJ in Hawaii and his FTs will.be over 75% and eventually the ovet 80% within 3 years--or MUCH less. Jesus can certainly influence CCJ'S shooting and Jan can simply watch and learn. Angel sssisted training. :grin

I think Gortat will be re-signed, although I am a little afraid of what he will cost in the Free Agent Market.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:8. I.think all the Wizards need is a D League big or international big. Haven't researched but Paul Davis, D'Or Fisher, or a seven footer who blocks shots and plays intelligent ball can assist this team.


It would be nice to add a shot-blocker, but I think the bigger need is a big that can provide 15 or so decent minutes. It seems like one place to find a guy like that is in the 2nd round. I think what the Hawks did with Muscala(having him sign in Spain) was a great idea.

I think a D League affiliate is a necessary addition for the team. Most of the well run teams have one(and use them for a number of uses). Baltimore or Fairfax would be ideal location-wise, but even Richmond could work well. A D League team loses money, but I would be surprised if they cost much more than Eric Maynor.

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:10. Try to trade for Pau and Nash or Blake. Offer Seraphin, Nene , Ariza, Singleton, and if he can be included, Eric Maynor. Even add a 2016 first if necessary.

End game is cap space or trade asset acquisition to go for Love or Cousins.



I think only one of the 3 options is a possibility: keep Gortat, acquire Pau or acquire Cousins/Love. I don't think a Gasol/Gortat combo can play many minutes together.

A guy would might be available cheap from the Lakers is Kaman. He isn't getting any playing time, I wonder if they would deal him for Seraphin or Vesley.
verbal8
General Manager
Posts: 8,354
And1: 1,377
Joined: Jul 20, 2006
Location: Herndon, VA
     

Re: If you took over as GM today, what would you do? 

Post#415 » by verbal8 » Thu Jan 9, 2014 1:13 pm

TGW wrote:I actually would still buy low on Ersan. His value is dirt cheap right now.

The Wizards should definitely would take him on for expirings. A Neal/Maynor swap might add a minor incentive to the deal.

The Wizards would take a small hit this season, but I would consider swapping Ariza for him. It would likely take a 3rd team who would ultimately take Ariza.
Floater
Junior
Posts: 398
And1: 43
Joined: Mar 25, 2012

Re: If you took over as GM today, what would you do? 

Post#416 » by Floater » Thu Jan 9, 2014 1:50 pm

I'd just chill and wait for the offseason. Resign Gortat, QO to Book, Ves for cheap, a cheap serviceable backup big, and maybe a backup PG if they money is right. Spend a 2nd round pick on a backup PG but probably a Euro we'll never see.

It's a boring, realistic look about what a GM would do with this team. We won't do much more than what I listed anyways.

Any chance we see Tomas next year or did I answer my own question in the first paragraph?
User avatar
Rafael122
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 20,850
And1: 3,573
Joined: Oct 11, 2004
       

Re: If you took over as GM today, what would you do? 

Post#417 » by Rafael122 » Thu Jan 9, 2014 2:06 pm

As for a coach, I'd actually prefer a retread over and up and comer. A lot of people here were Dave Joerger fans but he doesn't seem to be doing very well. Regardless of the injuries, statistically they are worse than last year. Give me someone from the Van Gundy/Pop tree, or George Karl. I'd actually keep Wittman on staff if possible, players seem to listen to him.
Bickerstaff: who's up for kickball?!!
Ed Wood: Only if it's the no-pants variety.
User avatar
TGW
RealGM
Posts: 13,397
And1: 6,796
Joined: Oct 22, 2010

Re: If you took over as GM today, what would you do? 

Post#418 » by TGW » Thu Jan 9, 2014 2:34 pm

Rafael122 wrote:As for a coach, I'd actually prefer a retread over and up and comer. A lot of people here were Dave Joerger fans but he doesn't seem to be doing very well. Regardless of the injuries, statistically they are worse than last year. Give me someone from the Van Gundy/Pop tree, or George Karl. I'd actually keep Wittman on staff if possible, players seem to listen to him.


Hollins and McMillian could also go on that list. I thought they both got unfairly fired from their previous teams.
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
verbal8
General Manager
Posts: 8,354
And1: 1,377
Joined: Jul 20, 2006
Location: Herndon, VA
     

Re: If you took over as GM today, what would you do? 

Post#419 » by verbal8 » Thu Jan 9, 2014 2:52 pm

TGW wrote:
Rafael122 wrote:As for a coach, I'd actually prefer a retread over and up and comer. A lot of people here were Dave Joerger fans but he doesn't seem to be doing very well. Regardless of the injuries, statistically they are worse than last year. Give me someone from the Van Gundy/Pop tree, or George Karl. I'd actually keep Wittman on staff if possible, players seem to listen to him.


Hollins and McMillian could also go on that list. I thought they both got unfairly fired from their previous teams.


I think McMillan could be a good pick. I think what helps for him is that Wall is hopefully the billionaire's Nate McMillan.

I also would see if Thibs is available. He hasn't had the best relationship with management and can't be thrilled about the Deng deal. If Rose looks back to his old form, I think the Bulls and Thibs can work something out. If it looks like a repeat of this season, both sides may want to move on.
User avatar
nate33
Forum Mod - Wizards
Forum Mod - Wizards
Posts: 70,599
And1: 23,065
Joined: Oct 28, 2002

Re: If you took over as GM today, what would you do? 

Post#420 » by nate33 » Thu Jan 9, 2014 3:17 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:8. I.think all the Wizards need is a D League big or international big. Haven't researched but Paul Davis, D'Or Fisher, or a seven footer who blocks shots and plays intelligent ball can assist this team.

Useful defensive big men cannot be found from the D League. They don't exist. There are only a few dozen useful defensive big men on the planet, and they're already on rosters. You've got to draft defensive bigs, or pay them a lot of money as free agents.

Return to Washington Wizards