'14 Draft Thread pt 2: vote again? VOTE AGAIN.

[JBucks]

That's not saying that much.

Yes it is.

Carmelo's a good-to-great offensive player undone by stopping the ball and porous defense. If you want to call him a top-30 player, I guess, but he's not even in the George/Harden/Parker/Westbrook... the "Not LeBron, Paul, or Durant" tier of superstars. Criminally overrated, and I look forward to him sinking the payroll of the Lakers or Bulls after this season.

Notice I wrote that he's going to be better than him. His D is going to be dramatically better and he's going to be at least as good offensively, which is in fact saying a lot.

[paulpressey25]

Randle has the highest floor out of all of them. I would argue Exum actually having displayed an ability to run an offense and orchestrate an attack makes him both a better prospect than can't shoot/can't pass Smart and gives him a higher floor.

Watch Marcus Smart play D. I didn't like him at first, a month ago, when he looked like Monta 2.0. But then watched him the other day. Extremely disruptive. A unique player.

I see Wiggins and Smart getting grilled for their shooting, but they might also be excellent two-way players. I just don't know, but I have a hard time making absolute statements about any of these guys (except for Embiid of course )

And the guy I struggle with the most is Exum. I just really want to seem him now (Jan 2014) against some sort of measurable competition. He may be Penny or Olivier St.Jean.

[ConoverBucks]

That's not saying that much.

Yes it is.

Carmelo's a good-to-great offensive player undone by stopping the ball and porous defense. If you want to call him a top-30 player, I guess, but he's not even in the George/Harden/Parker/Westbrook... the "Not LeBron, Paul, or Durant" tier of superstars. Criminally overrated, and I look forward to him sinking the payroll of the Lakers or Bulls after this season.

I agree with all of that and I really don't like Melo but if the Bucks got Parker and becomes as good as or better than Melo, I will be ecstatic. Melo is a very talented player but needs another star and/or elite distributor next to him.

[cinematographer]

Yes it is.

Carmelo's a good-to-great offensive player undone by stopping the ball and porous defense. If you want to call him a top-30 player, I guess, but he's not even in the George/Harden/Parker/Westbrook... the "Not LeBron, Paul, or Durant" tier of superstars. Criminally overrated, and I look forward to him sinking the payroll of the Lakers or Bulls after this season.

Notice I wrote that he's going to be better than him. His D is going to be better and he's going to be as good offensively. I'll take that any day of the week. He's the scorer we're looking for.

I like Parker, but I have worries he'll struggle to ever defend as well as even Khris Middleton.

I'd also argue Parker is the worst out of Embiid/Exum/Wigigns in fitting with Giannis. I realize that's a beggars can't be choosers thing, and I'm fine with Parker on the Bucks, but this is Giannis' show for the next two decades.

And Parker's three point shooting has fallen off a cliff since Thanksgiving. He's only 7 for 28 from the Alabama game on.

[mattg]

Carmelo's a good-to-great offensive player undone by stopping the ball and porous defense. If you want to call him a top-30 player, I guess, but he's not even in the George/Harden/Parker/Westbrook... the "Not LeBron, Paul, or Durant" tier of superstars. Criminally overrated, and I look forward to him sinking the payroll of the Lakers or Bulls after this season.

I don't get this. All the guys you listed are top 10 players in the league. Melo may not be better than them but he's in the group right behind. Getting a top 10 player with our pick would be a big get. And Parker looks to be like melo except instead of favoring ball stopping isolations, he looks to have a very good floor game and the willingness to move the ball around to help facilitate offense. Basically, ya know, the main thing that prevents melo from being a truly elite player.

[mlloyd10]

Parker can become Melo and better - he's shown it. But Wiggins has shown nothing comparable to Pippen. Pippen was a point forward. Wiggins averages 1.4 steals to 1.8 to's per game. He's a scorer; not a playmaker. And on the defensive side, he hasn't shown anywhere near the ability that Pippen had to create turnovers.

So yah - you can make a good comp from Parker to Melo, but no - you comparing Wiggins to da Pip is a nonstarter.

That is absolutely false - He has soon flashes of being a play maker, but is hesitant and on defense, it took pippen until his junior year to start forcing TO's

And there's a million other guys that showed flashes of being a playmaker that didn't become Pippen, so why is Wiggins going to be that 1 in a million that does? I had this same conversation with people about Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.

The main difference with MKG is he couldn't shoot coming out

[cinematographer]

Watch Marcus Smart play D. I didn't like him at first, a month ago, when he looked like Monta 2.0. But then watched him the other day. Extremely disruptive. A unique player.

I love that he goes after it on D. And if, say, Jeremy Lamb was acquired, I could even tolerate Smart here if a coach was brought in who could keep Smart in line.

I watched Smart last night. Monta with defense is intriguing, but I just... I'm oil and water with you guys when it comes to Smart.

I see Wiggins and Smart getting grilled for their shooting, but they might also be excellent two-way players. I just don't know, but I have a hard time making absolute statements about any of these guys (except for Embiid of course )

My vote in this thread is for Embiid, but are you worried that whatever Luc told him about Milwaukee would make Embiid less than happy to be here or eager to bolt? With the right coach brought in, I'm not, but if Drew stays around...

And the guy I struggle with the most is Exum. I just really want so seem him now (Jan 2014) against some sort of measurable competition. He may be Penny or Olivier St.Jean.

I think that if you took any of the top prospects and threw them into the competitions Exum has been in, you'd be fine if they performed as well as him. I'd love to see him playing in the Big Ten or ACC, but he was doing what a top prospect should do against that level of competition. I think he'll having growing pains, but his top end is such a strength that I think he'll be able to mitigate his early struggles more than other rookies.

[cinematographer]

I don't get this. All the guys you listed are top 10 players in the league. Melo may not be better than them but he's in the group right behind. Getting a top 10 player with our pick would be a big get. And Parker looks to be like melo except instead of favoring ball stopping isolations, he looks to have a very good floor game and the willingness to move the ball around to help facilitate offense. Basically, ya know, the main thing that prevents melo from being a truly elite player.

I wouldn't put him in the group behind. I don't often agree with Bill Simmons or Jalen Rose, but whatever part of their Birdmester look at the season so far they just came out with hit the nail on the head with regards to Carmelo.

Would it shock you if I said xRAPM didn't even have Carmelo in the top 50 last year? The difference on offense between Carmelo and Rudy Gay is Carmelo makes shots, but he still stops the ball, grinds the offense down to a halt and takes shots that would better serve the team if they were passed up, even with the makes.

If Parker is "Carmelo but fun to play with", there's something there, but I again have the worry about defense and the position he plays on offense. And for the **** I give and will give Carmelo, Carmelo's first step is INCREDIBLE. Parker doesn't have that.

[Baddy Chuck]

I personally don't think Parker is as good as Melo but if you think we have great odds of getting a guy better then Melo and are scoffing at getting a guy like Melo you're nuts.

[Scoops]

I personally don't think Parker is as good as Melo but if you think we have great odds of getting a guy better then Melo and are scoffing at getting a guy like Melo you're nuts.

This.

I don't think Parker is close to Melo in physical ability.

[MiltownHawkeye]

I personally don't think Parker is as good as Melo but if you think we have great odds of getting a guy better then Melo and are scoffing at getting a guy like Melo you're nuts.

Carmelo scores a lot of points and is not LeBron, therefore he sucks.

[Scoops]

Not sure if it's been posted before, but here are highlights from Exum's most recent competition, the 2013 ACS in Australia. If I heard right, it's Australia's best high school players. They certainly don't look like scrubs in the video.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNRGoik0q58[/youtube]

This kid is going to be incredible. I would honestly consider him at 1

I'm not there yet but I could be by June. The length with him and GA would be incredible.

[cinematographer]

I personally don't think Parker is as good as Melo but if you think we have great odds of getting a guy better then Melo and are scoffing at getting a guy like Melo you're nuts.

How good do you think Melo is? Because a lot of advanced metrics would disagree and disagree wholeheartedly with the notion he's even top-30.

[cinematographer]

I personally don't think Parker is as good as Melo but if you think we have great odds of getting a guy better then Melo and are scoffing at getting a guy like Melo you're nuts.

Carmelo scores a lot of points and is not LeBron, therefore he sucks.

Yep, that's the argument.

[VooDoo7]

Not sure if it's been posted before, but here are highlights from Exum's most recent competition, the 2013 ACS in Australia. If I heard right, it's Australia's best high school players. They certainly don't look like scrubs in the video.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNRGoik0q58[/youtube]

I see at least 5 potential first round picks in that game.

And all 5 guys wearing warmups. Am I right?

[LUKE23]

We will see where Parker ends up, but so far he's having a better season than Melo did as a frosh. Actually you could argue significantly better.

[cinematographer]

We will see where Parker ends up, but so far he's having a better season than Melo did as a frosh. Actually you could argue significantly better.

Melo was 22/10 with a .537 TS% and M.O.P. on a national champion.

Jabari is 19.8/7.6 with a .587 TS%.

I might agree that Parker's insane usage coupled with that TS% makes his season better, but significantly seems like a stretch.

[LUKE23]

I was looking at per 40, since both play pretty high minutes. I agree Parker's efficiency goes down if his usage goes up. I see Parker as more versatile offensively, personally.

[VooDoo7]

Heads-up. Arizona-UCLA is on in a few minutes on ESPN.

[SkilesTheLimit]

I was looking at per 40, since both play pretty high minutes. I agree Parker's efficiency goes down if his usage goes up. I see Parker as more versatile offensively, personally.

Having said all this, you still like Wiggins better at #1? Maybe I'm missing something watching him....what do you see in his game that makes him a clear choice above Parker?