GT #33: Wizards @ Pelicans 8 PM CSN

[hands11]

Terrible finish to the game while going into Indy. Hope it doesnt carry over. I like our chances against Indy. This team was really excited to play them last game but Beal was already out and that was the game when Nene decided to start resting. We have all hands on deck this game and are hot on the road. This team wants to get over those .500 woes and wants to feel like they can beat good teams. Theyve heard all the bad talk and they want to show and prove. Indy will just be playing there regular game but will have energy at home while we will be playing like its a huge game and have something to prove. We should make it interesting

Yeah. I actually like the way this is setting up.

[hands11]

Sig has been updated.

If Jan could find a role as an energy/hustle player, like our version of Birdman Anderson, I'd be fine with that.

Isn't Booker already 26 years old? Jan is 23 and full of energy. He has summer league jumper skills. His form was like Dirk's in Vegas. Jan was FIBA's top rebounder and was also a scoring leader among many great, older, international players.

I think the Wizards fans mostly don't deserve him. I think Jan would be better off going back to Europe. But I also think he's good enough to start right now. Heck, the Wizards won 8 of 10 games in 2011-2012 with Jan starting at 20 or 21 years of age.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using RealGM Forums mobile app

Actually, I think he has learned a lot by coming to the NBA. Skills and emotionally. If you go to nba.com and watch his clips, you will actually see he has scored in a lot of different ways this year. I think we are watching him start to put i together. Like you said, just 23. And he had to do the whole international to US ball transition. And the team was a wreck. And he missed the first summer because of strike. And his second year he got pushed behind the vets.

But he put in a good summer. He has his coach here. He has Gortat as a mentor. I think Nene is starting to take to him also. And this is his 3rd year as a pro. He still has a lot of work to do but if he keeps at it, he can get can it done. To me its already clear there is a difference. I was kind of surprised they didn't take his option. He seem primed for year of improvement. He got stronger over the summer. I figured if he just got modestly better he would be worth 2M. So on the downside they would be overpaying by 1.5M to give him another summer. But if he stepped it up, 3.5M is fine for a young big that can rebound, block shots, defend run, jump, opp. And I see his offense slowly expanding. Hopefully he keeps it up. And if last game is any marker, Nene is now looking for him. He figures let the young buck do it. I'll save my knees. Then Nene will take that and make a move of it and get himself a clearer look.

Good stuff. Looking forward to seeing him continue to get that 20 mins a game.

[hands11]

Oh I disagree. I mean the reason why this is even being discussed is that Booker starting has been an obvious, obvious failure. His defense is terrible. The offense grinds to a halt when he's in there. He's the reason Gortat is forced to take long twos. He's the reason Beal is forced into taking contested long twos.

I don't know if Vesely would be any better. But I'm curious if Vesely's improved court awareness and willingness to move around on offense and his vastly superior team defense would help? Or is his inability to guard hefty PFs one on one and his tendency to get stupid fouls called and turn the ball over make things worse? Only one way to find out! Try it!

LOL WTF? Booker starting has gone extemely well. If you think Vesely is even remotely comparable to Booker then you really haven't been paying attention.

OMG really? You look at the dismal mess of our offense and defense with Booker starting and think, hey, that's rather decent! I think watching our bench play has ruined you.

I see an offense and defense that is running at about half it's normal efficiency and see it as a glass is half empty thing I guess.

I don't know if Vesely would be better, but I do know that Booker has SUCKED. His team defense has SUCKED. His wandering around aimlessly on offense has SUCKED. My eyes tell me so. And the things that Booker has sucked at, team defense and playing intelligently in a motion offense, Vesely is actually pretty good at. I don't know if Vesely would be BETTER, but at least it would be a different FLAVOR of suck.

Did you chime in with this in the Booker starting thread ?

[TGW]

Oh I disagree. I mean the reason why this is even being discussed is that Booker starting has been an obvious, obvious failure. His defense is terrible. The offense grinds to a halt when he's in there. He's the reason Gortat is forced to take long twos. He's the reason Beal is forced into taking contested long twos.

I don't know if Vesely would be any better. But I'm curious if Vesely's improved court awareness and willingness to move around on offense and his vastly superior team defense would help? Or is his inability to guard hefty PFs one on one and his tendency to get stupid fouls called and turn the ball over make things worse? Only one way to find out! Try it!

Uh....no. You gotta be joking to suggest that starting Booker has been a failure. The team is 8-9 with him starting, which is right in line with their winning %. At worst, starting Booker has had no effect on wins and losses, and the team has played about the same whether Nene or Booker starts.

As a matter of fact, according to 82games the lineup of Wall-Beal-Ariza-Nene-Gortat and the lineup of Wall-Webster-Ariza-Booker-Gortat are dead even as far as win %.

Booker ain't the problem. Beal sucking is the biggest problem.

[nate33]

Oh I disagree. I mean the reason why this is even being discussed is that Booker starting has been an obvious, obvious failure. His defense is terrible. The offense grinds to a halt when he's in there. He's the reason Gortat is forced to take long twos. He's the reason Beal is forced into taking contested long twos.

I don't know if Vesely would be any better. But I'm curious if Vesely's improved court awareness and willingness to move around on offense and his vastly superior team defense would help? Or is his inability to guard hefty PFs one on one and his tendency to get stupid fouls called and turn the ball over make things worse? Only one way to find out! Try it!

Uh....no. You gotta be joking to suggest that starting Booker has been a failure. The team is 8-9 with him starting, which is right in line with their winning %. At worst, starting Booker has had no effect on wins and losses, and the team has played about the same whether Nene or Booker starts.

As a matter of fact, according to 82games the lineup of Wall-Beal-Ariza-Nene-Gortat and the lineup of Wall-Webster-Ariza-Booker-Gortat are dead even as far as win %.

Booker ain't the problem. Beal sucking is the biggest problem.

Exactly. Starting Booker hasn't really hurt the starting unit much relative to starting Nene, but moving Nene to the 2nd unit has been a dramatic improvement. I can't believe people still dispute this.

If Vesely maintains his good play for a few more games, I'd be open minded to trying him out in place of Booker, but I don't think he has earned it yet. The thing about Booker is that, even when he is bad, he is merely ineffective and somewhat invisible. When Vesely is bad, he actively sabotages the team with his fouling, weak box outs, and turnovers.

[stevemcqueen1]

Booker's defense is a problem. We have a really, really hard time protecting the rim with him in the game.

But Booker's offense has been OK IMO. He sets screens and offers a target around the basket. And he is an animal on the offensive glass. It's virtually the same kind of energy play you're expecting from Vesely. Booker isn't as big a target for pass penetration. But Booker has a reasonably reliable jumper.

I think Booker is better on the glass overall than Vesely. Vesely is active, but Booker is a true physical rebounder. So I think a swap between Vesely and Booker is mainly about whether you want the superior rebounder or the superior defender.

I wouldn't be totally opposed to starting Vesely over Booker but I think the best plan for right now is to play Ves about 20 minutes off the bench and keep Booker in the starting line up. If Vesely keeps playing well and shows he can be relied upon for more, then we'll talk. Starting Vesely would be a complete experiment and I don't know that we need that right now. Booker has starting experience and has demonstrated a lot more reliability than Vesely.

[stevemcqueen1]

CCJ, I don't know if it was about protecting Jan....I just think the incompetent staff we had and still have had a hard time figuring out what he was. He was drafted as a potential 3, then they tried to bulk him up and make him a center...He's finally playing a role that fits what he is.

I agree.

Vesely's struggles are pretty common actually. Highly drafted European project big goes to bad team incapable of developing him properly.

He truly is a project big. What he needed to develop properly, we didn't have when we drafted him. He needed stable line ups and veterans surrounding him. We didn't really have a clear plan for what he'd be, asked him to change positions and change his body a couple times. And as a project player, he's going to make mistakes and have limitations that will make a coach on a perpetual hot seat unwilling to play him. So that's exactly what happened.

And all of his issues were compounded by his unfortunate problem with free throws. It made him scared to try and do something with the ball because he has such an easy to exploit hole in his game. All of it added up to a profound loss of confidence that effected his performance. It happens a lot in the NBA.

This is the first season where we've had a lot of vet quality and more stable line ups. And it's not a coincidence that Vesely is starting to thrive in this environment. It's what he needed from day one. I also think he's adjusted to the physicality of the NBA now, is playing a lot less soft. And he seems to have matured and sensed the urgency of keeping his career in the NBA alive. And he's also added some tools to his game like a bit of a post game with a set of running hooks and turn arounds.

I'd love for him to become a useful player for us. If he keeps playing 20 minutes a night, I think that'll give us a sample size to get a picture of what we have with him by this summer. Wizards fans aren't used to seeing struggling young players figure it out and improve here. All we've seen is busts. Or watching our young players go somewhere else and figure it out. It'd be nice to flip that script for a change.

[dckingsfan]

Exactly. Starting Booker hasn't really hurt the starting unit much relative to starting Nene, but moving Nene to the 2nd unit has been a dramatic improvement. I can't believe people still dispute this.

And therein lies the problem... it is difficult to see the move as a whole which has been terrifically beneficial.

Nene moving to the second unit has increased the 2nd units productivity immensely and at the same time is reducing Nene's wear and tear and could have the affect that we get him through a majority of the season.

It has opened up time in the second unit for Vesely - he doesn't have to panic about being with the first unit and Witt can now manage rotations with Vesely and Booker paired with Nene and Gortat. And then he can finish games with Nene/Gortat.

The only thing holding us back right now is the development of Wall/Beal. Only if they take their games to the next level does the team get to the next level. But with 6 players (Wall, Ariza, Nene, Gortat, Booker and Webster) playing at an NBA level and two more flirting with an NBA level (Vesely and Beal) we are starting to get some traction.

[nate33]

I'd love for him to become a useful player for us. If he keeps playing 20 minutes a night, I think that'll give us a sample size to get a picture of what we have with him by this summer. Wizards fans aren't used to seeing struggling young players figure it out and improve here. All we've seen is busts. Or watching our young players go somewhere else and figure it out. It'd be nice to flip that script for a change.

Minor disagreement. I don't think our problem is necessarily on the developmental side. It's on the talent evaluation. Our young players don't improve much because they're either physically or mentally not good enough. When they've gone elsewhere, they have continued to stink.

Nick Young is still the same Nick Young.

McGee is still the same McGee.

Jordan Crawford had a hot start but has settled into being the same old Jordan Crawford.

Blatche is better, but I don't really blame our development program. He was always a lazy bum and he really needed to hit rock bottom before committing himself to getting in shape.

[Kanyewest]

I'd love for him to become a useful player for us. If he keeps playing 20 minutes a night, I think that'll give us a sample size to get a picture of what we have with him by this summer. Wizards fans aren't used to seeing struggling young players figure it out and improve here. All we've seen is busts. Or watching our young players go somewhere else and figure it out. It'd be nice to flip that script for a change.

Minor disagreement. I don't think our problem is necessarily on the developmental side. It's on the talent evaluation. Our young players don't improve much because they're either physically or mentally not good enough. When they've gone elsewhere, they have continued to stink.

Nick Young is still the same Nick Young.

McGee is still the same McGee.

Jordan Crawford had a hot start but has settled into being the same old Jordan Crawford.

Blatche is better, but I don't really blame our development program. He was always a lazy bum and he really needed to hit rock bottom before committing himself to getting in shape.

With Blatche, the lockout really hurt his ability to get in shape. Yes he should have been professional about it but he wasn't the only player who had fitness issues at that time. IIRC, Dirk also showed up out of shape and the Mavs made him take off games in order for him to get back in shape. Not an excuse for Blatche; he should be held accountable. But I think Blatche would have eventually rebounded if he was in a Wizards uniform.

[jivelikenice]

Blatche has had issues with conditioning even when there aren't lockouts....

[Kanyewest]

Blatche has had issues with conditioning even when there aren't lockouts....

I think the biggest thing is that Blatche just stopped shooting those 18 to 19 foot jumpers. He was never going to worth that money he was making though.