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2014 Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread

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Re: 2014 Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread 

Post#761 » by bwgood77 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:09 pm

RunDogGun wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:Marc Jackson didn't tank games. Can we please stop saying this as it is fact. :roll: Shorten season, many many injuries, and one trade. Even if Barnes doesn't play a game, their starting lineup save Iggy is still from that team that lost many games. The only difference is they are all healthy now.


GS didn't tank games. I wish you'd continue stating that as fact.


Fixed that for you. :wink: Maybe you are right, Marc Jackson seems like the type of guy that is willing to be completely dishonest, purposely throw games, in his first season, in the slim chance if landing exactly on the draft pick that kept it theirs. :roll:

Or maybe in a shorten season with many b2bs and some b2b2b's, six rookies on the squad, and injuries to many key players, are actual facts which contributed to the losing of many games. :wink: Are you saying that all of those things aren't facts? :lol:


I didn't mention Marc Jackson. :roll: I mentioned GS. I doubt coaches do it too often. Management, by making trades for injured players and from the help of their team physicians suddenly erring on the side of EXTRA caution when it comes to letting guys play because it could lead to wins. It's too bad you can't understand this. Things would make so much more sense for you.

These arguments and the bullheadedness are hilarious. :lol:
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Re: 2014 Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread 

Post#762 » by RunDogGun » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:12 pm

Ring_Wanted wrote:I don't know. They traded for an injuried player and sit Curry and Lee. They were around 50% when they moved Ellis but basically didn't win another game for the rest of the season. If you consider that their pick was not theirs unless they finished the regular season among the seven worst teams in the L.

I won't pretend to have the deepest knowledge of the Warriors, but it smelled like tanking.

Chicago, for instance, has the excuse of not wanting to resign Deng.

They didn't sit Curry and Lee. They were both injuried. Lee missed nine games because of a groin injury, which he also had the following year. Thompson didn't play nearly as good as now, but to carry the team at such a young age seems tough.

Shoot, Frye gets a shoulder injury, and we can't even make the playoffs.

How many teams play their deep bench to evaluate them when their team is not making the playoffs? So does this really come down to Nate not playing the last five games? Is he a starting guard for any team now?
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Re: 2014 Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread 

Post#763 » by RunDogGun » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:16 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:
Fixed that for you. :wink: Maybe you are right, Marc Jackson seems like the type of guy that is willing to be completely dishonest, purposely throw games, in his first season, in the slim chance if landing exactly on the draft pick that kept it theirs. :roll:

Or maybe in a shorten season with many b2bs and some b2b2b's, six rookies on the squad, and injuries to many key players, are actual facts which contributed to the losing of many games. :wink: Are you saying that all of those things aren't facts? :lol:


I didn't mention Marc Jackson. I mentioned GS. I doubt coaches do it too often. Management, by making trades and the help of their team physicians my suddenly err on the side of EXTRA caution when It comes to letting guys play because it could lead to wins. It's too bad you can't understand this. Things would make so much more sense for you.


I understand your assumptions just fine.
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Re: 2014 Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread 

Post#764 » by RunDogGun » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:21 pm

carey wrote:Oh, puhlease! If you don't think GS tanked at the end of that season so they'd not give up that pick then you're absolutely delusional. I'm sorry.

Cool, I'm delusional because I don't think a team purposely chose to start losing games 33 games into a 66 game season, just to land exactly on the last pick needed to keep it? :lol:

I'll go by the facts known, and you can build your case on whatever you want.
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Re: 2014 Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread 

Post#765 » by Skillmatic » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:28 pm

What about Eric Gordon. He is in the trade block. I know its not his best Season so far, but if he is healthy, he can be our shooting guard. What do you guys think we ca offer?
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Re: 2014 Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread 

Post#766 » by RunDogGun » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:34 pm

Skillmatic wrote:What about Eric Gordon. He is in the trade block. I know its not his best Season so far, but if he is healthy, he can be our shooting guard. What do you guys think we ca offer?

Nope, dodged that bullet. No need to reload that gun and try again with three bullets this time.
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Re: 2014 Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread 

Post#767 » by Barkley_34 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:41 pm

Skillmatic wrote:What about Eric Gordon. He is in the trade block. I know its not his best Season so far, but if he is healthy, he can be our shooting guard. What do you guys think we ca offer?



nothing, overpaid.
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Re: 2014 Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread 

Post#768 » by DragicKingdom » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:11 pm

RunDogGun wrote:
Skillmatic wrote:What about Eric Gordon. He is in the trade block. I know its not his best Season so far, but if he is healthy, he can be our shooting guard. What do you guys think we ca offer?

Nope, dodged that bullet. No need to reload that gun and try again with three bullets this time.



This is like playing Russian Roulette with a semi auto pistol. The money we have needs to go towards keeping Bledsoe and getting an top tier power forward/small forward. Tying up our money in an undersized guard while already having Dragic, Bledsoe, and Goodwin is a bad idea.
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Re: 2014 Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread 

Post#769 » by carey » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:15 pm

RunDogGun wrote:Cool, I'm delusional because I don't think a team purposely chose to start losing games 33 games into a 66 game season, just to land exactly on the last pick needed to keep it? :lol:

I'll go by the facts known, and you can build your case on whatever you want.


No. It was the very end of the season. Just like when we sat Goran vs. Utah cause he was "tired". Everyone that covers the league knows it and it is one of the impetus for the new draft proposal. Not quite sure why you're in denial.
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Re: 2014 Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread 

Post#770 » by grumpysaddle » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:35 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:
INFORMER-93 wrote:
For some reason, Bledsoe's injury has got me kind of shell shocked. I'm kind of hoping we just stand pat and play the season out. But I also hope that McDonough makes a few moves for the future. I'd like him to call up Charlotte and see if they have buyer's remorse with Cody Zeller, and/or if they're willing to part with Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. I also would like to see us acquire Donatas Motiejunas. And I think we should offer Miami a chance to salary dump Joel Anthony while getting from them the draft rights to James Ennis and Philadelphia's protected first rounder (which in all likelihood will just becomes two second rounders).


As I mentioned in another thread, I'd like to move Frye. With Bledsoe out, I think we have an opportunity to guarantee ourselves 4 picks, with one in the late-lotto, by diving below Minnesota. Simply getting rid of Frye gives us $6.8 million in additional cap space next summer. Two long-term birds, one short-term stone.

I don't think we should make a move for a star this season - we'll be in better position on draft night, or this summer, to make such a move. Interesting ideas with the Bobcats though. Think they'd be interested in the Morrises for either target?

I also mentioned in the other thread that the meniscus tear won't stop us from signing Bledsoe to a $12-$14 million deal I think. But if he doesn't want to be here, we'll have the ability to S&T him. We have a great deal of flexibility in this rebuilding process, even if we don't have a top pick.


"Simply" getting rid of Frye hurts the team so much more than you think. He's integral to this team's success anyway you slice it, and the way his game is, provided his health is maintained, he can definitely play the same part for the team going forward for the next 4-5 years. He doesn't rely on athleticism for his game, and he had that year off, so that helps a bit with wear and tear. His contract is super reasonable for what he gives the team, and they can probably give him a 3-4 year deal after this contract that is even cheaper. I'm not into throwing players away because another player got injured.

What I'm getting from this post is that you want to get 4 picks so badly to you are willing to turn the team's culture into a stinking pile of crap by not being competitive by any means necessary. I'd rather the Suns keep what they have, play hard for the rest of the season, and barely miss the playoffs than trade away important pieces in the name of getting a pick in the 14-18th spot of the draft, while also making their own pick be in the late, late lottery.
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Re: 2014 Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread 

Post#771 » by bwgood77 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:37 pm

RunDogGun wrote:
carey wrote:Oh, puhlease! If you don't think GS tanked at the end of that season so they'd not give up that pick then you're absolutely delusional. I'm sorry.

Cool, I'm delusional because I don't think a team purposely chose to start losing games 33 games into a 66 game season, just to land exactly on the last pick needed to keep it? :lol:

I'll go by the facts known, and you can build your case on whatever you want.


I'm sure they would have been happy to get even a better pick. :roll:
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Re: 2014 Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread 

Post#772 » by Fo-Real » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:41 pm

DragicKingdom wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:
Skillmatic wrote:What about Eric Gordon. He is in the trade block. I know its not his best Season so far, but if he is healthy, he can be our shooting guard. What do you guys think we ca offer?

Nope, dodged that bullet. No need to reload that gun and try again with three bullets this time.



This is like playing Russian Roulette with a semi auto pistol. The money we have needs to go towards keeping Bledsoe and getting an top tier power forward/small forward. Tying up our money in an undersized guard while already having Dragic, Bledsoe, and Goodwin is a bad idea.


I was thinking it was more like playing Russian Roulette, putting the gun to your head and luckily hearing that ckick in relief..... only to hear some bozo call out it is school yard basketball rules and you have to win by two!!! :lol:
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Re: 2014 Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread 

Post#773 » by bwgood77 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:45 pm

grumpysaddle wrote:
cosmofizzo wrote:
INFORMER-93 wrote:
For some reason, Bledsoe's injury has got me kind of shell shocked. I'm kind of hoping we just stand pat and play the season out. But I also hope that McDonough makes a few moves for the future. I'd like him to call up Charlotte and see if they have buyer's remorse with Cody Zeller, and/or if they're willing to part with Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. I also would like to see us acquire Donatas Motiejunas. And I think we should offer Miami a chance to salary dump Joel Anthony while getting from them the draft rights to James Ennis and Philadelphia's protected first rounder (which in all likelihood will just becomes two second rounders).


As I mentioned in another thread, I'd like to move Frye. With Bledsoe out, I think we have an opportunity to guarantee ourselves 4 picks, with one in the late-lotto, by diving below Minnesota. Simply getting rid of Frye gives us $6.8 million in additional cap space next summer. Two long-term birds, one short-term stone.

I don't think we should make a move for a star this season - we'll be in better position on draft night, or this summer, to make such a move. Interesting ideas with the Bobcats though. Think they'd be interested in the Morrises for either target?

I also mentioned in the other thread that the meniscus tear won't stop us from signing Bledsoe to a $12-$14 million deal I think. But if he doesn't want to be here, we'll have the ability to S&T him. We have a great deal of flexibility in this rebuilding process, even if we don't have a top pick.


"Simply" getting rid of Frye hurts the team so much more than you think. He's integral to this team's success anyway you slice it, and the way his game is, provided his health is maintained, he can definitely play the same part for the team going forward for the next 4-5 years. He doesn't rely on athleticism for his game, and he had that year off, so that helps a bit with wear and tear. His contract is super reasonable for what he gives the team, and they can probably give him a 3-4 year deal after this contract that is even cheaper. I'm not into throwing players away because another player got injured.

What I'm getting from this post is that you want to get 4 picks so badly to you are willing to turn the team's culture into a stinking pile of crap by not being competitive by any means necessary. I'd rather the Suns keep what they have, play hard for the rest of the season, and barely miss the playoffs than trade away important pieces in the name of getting a pick in the 14-18th spot of the draft, while also making their own pick be in the late, late lottery.


I agree in that I'd like the Suns to keep competing, but it would be nice to get the Minny pick. But that Minny pick (if they make the playoffs) very likely won't be in the 14-18 range, but more likely in the 19-20 range.

If you look at projected records, it's likely that the first 4-5 non lotto picks will all be made by eastern teams. The 8th seed in the west will probably have a better record than 4-5 east teams, so those east teams would get picks 15-18 or 19.

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/playoffodds

So this obviously also rings true for our own pick. If we make the playoffs it will probably be a pick in the low 20s, but if we miss, it will probably be around 14.

I imagine the Washington pick will probably be late teens, but if they were to miss the playoffs, there is almost no way we would get it, since a handful of western conf teams would probably get picks 11-14.
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Re: 2014 Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread 

Post#774 » by RunDogGun » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:48 pm

carey wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:Cool, I'm delusional because I don't think a team purposely chose to start losing games 33 games into a 66 game season, just to land exactly on the last pick needed to keep it? :lol:

I'll go by the facts known, and you can build your case on whatever you want.


No. It was the very end of the season. Just like when we sat Goran vs. Utah cause he was "tired". Everyone that covers the league knows it and it is one of the impetus for the new draft proposal. Not quite sure why you're in denial.

What am I denying? Many so called experts often are wrong. But maybe you are talking about playing Jenkins 40+ games! like another poster. In those THREE games Jenkins averaged 16.7/5.3/9. Or maybe the five games where he played 30-39 minutes where he averaged 16/2/9.2? The three games at the very end where a few bench to starters didn't play?

Or are you suggesting that they knew how every team around them would finish the year, and that absolutely no eighth lotto team would jump them to the top three just like the year before and after that draft?

Seems like you have a bunch of unfounded guesses to claim someone else is delusional. But feel free to actually go through the facts and make your case, instead of just saying it's your way because other's believe its so.
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Re: 2014 Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread 

Post#775 » by grumpysaddle » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:54 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
grumpysaddle wrote:
cosmofizzo wrote:
As I mentioned in another thread, I'd like to move Frye. With Bledsoe out, I think we have an opportunity to guarantee ourselves 4 picks, with one in the late-lotto, by diving below Minnesota. Simply getting rid of Frye gives us $6.8 million in additional cap space next summer. Two long-term birds, one short-term stone.

I don't think we should make a move for a star this season - we'll be in better position on draft night, or this summer, to make such a move. Interesting ideas with the Bobcats though. Think they'd be interested in the Morrises for either target?

I also mentioned in the other thread that the meniscus tear won't stop us from signing Bledsoe to a $12-$14 million deal I think. But if he doesn't want to be here, we'll have the ability to S&T him. We have a great deal of flexibility in this rebuilding process, even if we don't have a top pick.


"Simply" getting rid of Frye hurts the team so much more than you think. He's integral to this team's success anyway you slice it, and the way his game is, provided his health is maintained, he can definitely play the same part for the team going forward for the next 4-5 years. He doesn't rely on athleticism for his game, and he had that year off, so that helps a bit with wear and tear. His contract is super reasonable for what he gives the team, and they can probably give him a 3-4 year deal after this contract that is even cheaper. I'm not into throwing players away because another player got injured.

What I'm getting from this post is that you want to get 4 picks so badly to you are willing to turn the team's culture into a stinking pile of crap by not being competitive by any means necessary. I'd rather the Suns keep what they have, play hard for the rest of the season, and barely miss the playoffs than trade away important pieces in the name of getting a pick in the 14-18th spot of the draft, while also making their own pick be in the late, late lottery.


I agree in that I'd like the Suns to keep competing, but it would be nice to get the Minny pick. But that Minny pick (if they make the playoffs) very likely won't be in the 14-18 range, but more likely in the 19-20 range.

If you look at projected records, it's likely that the first 4-5 non lotto picks will all be made by eastern teams. The 8th seed in the west will probably have a better record than 4-5 east teams, so those east teams would get picks 15-18 or 19.

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/playoffodds

So this obviously also rings true for our own pick. If we make the playoffs it will probably be a pick in the low 20s, but if we miss, it will probably be around 14.

I imagine the Washington pick will probably be late teens, but if they were to miss the playoffs, there is almost no way we would get it, since a handful of western conf teams would probably get picks 11-14.


That's true. I didn't even think about that... just getting to my second cup of coffee now, so my brain wasn't quite awake earlier. That just makes my argument stronger, though.
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Re: 2014 Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread 

Post#776 » by ShawnBronald » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:10 pm

Barkley_34 wrote:
Skillmatic wrote:What about Eric Gordon. He is in the trade block. I know its not his best Season so far, but if he is healthy, he can be our shooting guard. What do you guys think we ca offer?



nothing, overpaid.


Yeah, who would give him that kind of crazy contract!? Oh... right.... Lance. :roll: :lol:
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Re: 2014 Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread 

Post#777 » by RunDogGun » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:17 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:
carey wrote:Oh, puhlease! If you don't think GS tanked at the end of that season so they'd not give up that pick then you're absolutely delusional. I'm sorry.

Cool, I'm delusional because I don't think a team purposely chose to start losing games 33 games into a 66 game season, just to land exactly on the last pick needed to keep it? :lol:

I'll go by the facts known, and you can build your case on whatever you want.


I'm sure they would have been happy to get even a better pick. :roll:

I'm sure many teams would like to have a high pick. So what, that doesn't make your accusation ring true. :roll: :roll:

Argue the facts, if you are going to continue to argue this.
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Re: 2014 Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread 

Post#778 » by bwgood77 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:31 pm

RunDogGun wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:Cool, I'm delusional because I don't think a team purposely chose to start losing games 33 games into a 66 game season, just to land exactly on the last pick needed to keep it? :lol:

I'll go by the facts known, and you can build your case on whatever you want.


I'm sure they would have been happy to get even a better pick. :roll:

I'm sure many teams would like to have a high pick. So what, that doesn't make your accusation ring true. :roll: :roll:

Argue the facts, if you are going to continue to argue this.


I'm not making an accusation. It's a well known opinion. There are no clear facts suggesting they didn't tank. There are facts suggesting they did.
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Re: 2014 Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread 

Post#779 » by RunDogGun » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:39 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:I'm sure many teams would like to have a high pick. So what, that doesn't make your accusation ring true. :roll: :roll:

Argue the facts, if you are going to continue to argue this.


I'm not making an accusation. It's a well known opinion. There are no clear facts suggesting they didn't tank. There are facts suggesting they did.


What Curry having ankle problems, which had him out for six weeks? :roll: Lee having a groin injury that had him out two weeks? Curry has had known ankle issues, and Lee had a groin injury the following year. Why would a team clearly out of the playoffs bring back one of their best players (who was injured) to placate fans and so called experts, and ease their minds from accusations of fixing games? :lol:

Let's see your facts.
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Re: 2014 Official Suns Free Agent/Trade/Transaction Thread 

Post#780 » by bwgood77 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:45 pm

RunDogGun wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
RunDogGun wrote:I'm sure many teams would like to have a high pick. So what, that doesn't make your accusation ring true. :roll: :roll:

Argue the facts, if you are going to continue to argue this.


I'm not making an accusation. It's a well known opinion. There are no clear facts suggesting they didn't tank. There are facts suggesting they did.


What Curry having ankle problems, which had him out for six weeks? :roll: Lee having a groin injury that had him out two weeks? Curry has had known ankle issues, and Lee had a groin injury the following year. Why would a team clearly out of the playoffs bring back one of their best players (who was injured) to placate fans and so called experts, and ease their minds from accusations of fixing games? :lol:

Let's see your facts.


You know the facts. Many people have repeatedly given them to you, so we are not going to continually repeat them if you like to conveniently forget them. But you are pointing out evidence that they were not trying to win because it would have been pointless at the time to bring back players. And you conveniently forget that they traded one of their best players for a guy who was out for the year, clearly looking ahead to the future.

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