'14 Draft Thread pt 2: vote again? VOTE AGAIN.

[randy84]

I'll take that bet any day of the weeek. No way after 1 month in to his rookie year will Embiid already be 1 of the best Rim Defenders in the league and putting up a PER over 20 like Henson.

It is unlikely Embiid in Year 1, Month 2 is better than Andre Drummond's Year 1 or Henson this year.

Rim protection? Sure, Larry is better. But can you run the offense thought Larry or Drummond right now? Can Larry and Drummond pass out of double and triple teams with ease? Hit free throws?

I understand the skepticism, but people need to look at the all around player. Embiids all around skillset is what makes him such a amazing prospect.

You can't run an offense through Embiid right now in the NBA either. He's not strong enough to hold any type of position which would allow him to take full advantage of his skill set. He'd get pushed out to the perimeter and you've suddenly got a jump shooting center who's going to struggle with his efficiency level.

In addition to that, the foul trouble is very much indicative of his defensive discipline. Again, he'll have trouble staying on the floor and rotating when the speed of everything around him increases.

Listen, he's got a great all around skill set, but the most important thing for him is seasoning and allowing his body to really fill out.

He did pretty good against Georgetown and their center is 6'10 and 350 ilbs.

[Max Green]

Embiid is my guy, but has he ever even had a double-double yet?

He's had 3.

[bigkurty]

Are any of these Kansas games archived?

Would like people to watch entire games and just watch Embiid the entire game. Then afterwards, ask yourself if Larry or Henson could make any of those plays, other than the blocked shots.

His post game and foot work is silky smooth for sure. Definitely the best I have seen in college in quite a few years. I think WCS has a better post game right now then either of our bigs also though. Henson is good but both those guys are better IMO. Sanders post game sucks pretty much. However if you put Sanders on the Clippers, he would look amazing playing with Paul. We really just need better distributors on the wing. The only good ones are Wolters and Giannis.

[skones]

He did pretty good against Georgetown and their center is 6'10 and 350 ilbs.

You mean a guy who's not projected to get drafted? Any rebuttal as far as the game against Oklahoma? You can pick and choose examples of him succeeding or not succeeding. You can do that with any player. Consistency is the biggest thing here, that's an area where Embiid will struggle mightily.

[bigkurty]

But you can't run an offense through Wiggins either. He has a spotty handle, horrible jump shot and is shooting 30% from the college 3 pt line.

Yeah he is scary. He reminds me so much of Marvin Williams in the hype and potential pushing him up higher than what you think when you actually watch him play. I wouldn't mind taking a shot on him but I want to know more about him. Like is he a gym rat that wants to be great like Kobe or a fake gym rat that wants to be famous like Brandon Jennings?

[randy84]

He did pretty good against Georgetown and their center is 6'10 and 350 ilbs.

You mean a guy who's not projected to get drafted? Any rebuttal as far as the game against Oklahoma? You can pick and choose examples of him succeeding or not succeeding. You can do that with any player. Consistency is the biggest thing here, that's an area where Embiid will struggle mightily.

Sure. He was doubled team all game against Oklahoma. Still put up 6 pts. and 6 rebs in 19 mins. That's a whole game for Larry Sanders.

[LedZepp007]

Bogut will end up having a better career than embiid. Does anyone want another bogut? I don't when you can have tmac (wiggins).


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[skones]

He did pretty good against Georgetown and their center is 6'10 and 350 ilbs.

You mean a guy who's not projected to get drafted? Any rebuttal as far as the game against Oklahoma? You can pick and choose examples of him succeeding or not succeeding. You can do that with any player. Consistency is the biggest thing here, that's an area where Embiid will struggle mightily.

Sure. He was doubled team all game against Oklahoma. Still put up 6 pts. and 6 rebs in 19 mins. That's a whole game for Larry Sanders.

Right, and a 6 point 6 rebound game against Oklahoma in which he's facing double teams means you can run an offense through him in the NBA? That makes him a top 5 center?

[paulpressey25]

..

Dwight Howard - Agreed
Anthony Davis - Agreed
Marc Gasol - Agreed
Roy Hibbert - Agreed
Al Horford - Agreed

Now we get to the other guys.....

Joakim Noah
Nikola Pekovic
Demarcus Cousins
Andre Drummond
Nikola Vucevic

All those guys are very good at one thing or another, but if any of them were really that impactful, their team records would be much better. And all of those guys have been in the league a couple years at least. Noah is the one guy in that list, who I do think is extremely fundamentally sound and impactful. But the other guys? Eh, I'd take Embiid and take my chances, again with the caveat that the refs will haze the crap out of Embiid with phantom foul calls, as they do for most rookies.

If you watched Embiid in game one back in November, and then today, his learning curve is massive. This is not a guy people are going to have to wait years on to develop before he's considered a top five center.

[Baddy Chuck]

Bogut will end up having a better career than embiid. Does anyone want another bogut? I don't when you can have tmac (wiggins).

That's not an opinion or anything.

[randy84]

You mean a guy who's not projected to get drafted? Any rebuttal as far as the game against Oklahoma? You can pick and choose examples of him succeeding or not succeeding. You can do that with any player. Consistency is the biggest thing here, that's an area where Embiid will struggle mightily.

Sure. He was doubled team all game against Oklahoma. Still put up 6 pts. and 6 rebs in 19 mins. That's a whole game for Larry Sanders.

Right, and a 6 point 6 rebound game against Oklahoma in which he's facing double teams means you can run an offense through him in the NBA? That makes him a top 5 center?

Plus, the dude was playing with one eye.

I never said he was a top 5 center, but I think he is better than Sanders.

[randy84]

Skones, you said you watch the Oklahoma game. Who did you think was the best player on KU in that game?

[Baddy Chuck]

All those guys are very good at one thing or another, but if any of them were really that impactful, their team records would be much better.

Same could be said about Embiid/Kansas.

[skones]

..

Dwight Howard - Agreed
Anthony Davis - Agreed
Marc Gasol - Agreed
Roy Hibbert - Agreed
Al Horford - Agreed

Now we get to the other guys.....

Joakim Noah
Nikola Pekovic
Demarcus Cousins
Andre Drummond
Nikola Vucevic

All those guys are very good at one thing or another, but if any of them were really that impactful, their team records would be much better. And all of those guys have been in the league a couple years at least. Noah is the one guy in that list, who I do think is extremely fundamentally sound and impactful. But the other guys? Eh, I'd take Embiid and take my chances, again with the caveat that the refs will haze the crap out of Embiid with phantom foul calls, as they do for most rookies.

If you watched Embiid in game one back in November, and then today, his learning curve is massive. This is not a guy people are going to have to wait years on to develop before he's considered a top five center.

Tyson Chandler.

What difference does the learning curve make when you specifically stated that you could put him in the NBA tomorrow and he'd be a top 5 center? Particularly when you just agreed that there are 5 centers better than him, and whether you'd like to admit it or not, those other guys are likely better right now too. With Embiid you're likely looking at year 2 before he becomes a top 10 center and year 3 for top 5.

[paulpressey25]

Watch the two minute clip below. But don't watch for the PPGZ dunk he makes. Watch these things:

Shooting form and release (jumper and free throws)
Ability to go high/low and come out and set screens/picks and show on defense
Body control to finish in the post
Footwork in the post
Footwork on defense on the one play where he runs around the fat guy and steals it away.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4sOqmbZdeg[/youtube]

[Max Green]

He did pretty good against Georgetown and their center is 6'10 and 350 ilbs.

You mean a guy who's not projected to get drafted? Any rebuttal as far as the game against Oklahoma? You can pick and choose examples of him succeeding or not succeeding. You can do that with any player. Consistency is the biggest thing here, that's an area where Embiid will struggle mightily.

Sure. He was doubled team all game against Oklahoma. Still put up 6 pts. and 6 rebs in 19 mins. That's a whole game for Larry Sanders.

He wasn't double-teamed all game. Late in the second half he was being guarded one on one by guys 6'8 and under and was fumbling the ball in the post because he couldn't establish position. If Larry was in College right now he would have put up more then 6 & 6 against Oklahoma.

[skones]

Skones, you said you watch the Oklahoma game. Who did you think was the best player on KU in that game?

Perry Ellis.

[paulpressey25]

All those guys are very good at one thing or another, but if any of them were really that impactful, their team records would be much better.

Same could be said about Embiid/Kansas.

Hakeem after three years at Houston lost the NCAA title game to a pair of sub-six foot guards on NC State (Whittenberg and Sidney Lowe). The NCAA isn't designed for bigs. Shaq had three years at LSU and his teams lost 9, 10 and 10 games each year, and were bounced in the second, first and second rounds each year.

[randy84]

Skones, you said you watch the Oklahoma game. Who did you think was the best player on KU in that game?

Perry Ellis.

I would have said Selden, but it is close. I just wanted to make sure you weren't going to say it was Wiggins.

[skones]

Watch the two minute clip below. But don't watch for the PPGZ dunk he makes. Watch these things:

Shooting form and release (jumper and free throws)
Ability to go high/low and come out and set screens/picks and show on defense
Body control to finish in the post
Footwork in the post
Footwork on defense on the one play where he runs around the fat guy and steals it away.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4sOqmbZdeg[/youtube]

For what reason? I was one of the first guys in this board on the Embiid train if not THE first. I'm aware of his skill set. That does NOT, however, mean that he's ready to step into the NBA and play at a high level with consistency given that he has issues doing that at the college level right now.