Zach LaVine

Talent Chaser · Post #101 » by **Talent Chaser** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:45 am

He's a stud, he has unlimited range and elite athleticism. I'd take him over Smart.

TucsonClip · Post #102 » by **TucsonClip** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:18 am

Terrible shot selection. Alford needs to get him involved in the flow of the offense.

That said, sweet stroke and lots of athleticism. Needs some refinement though, a lot of it.

miltk · Post #103 » by **miltk** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:53 am

TucsonClip wrote:Terrible shot selection. Alford needs to get him involved in the flow of the offense.

That said, sweet stroke and lots of athleticism. Needs some refinement though, a lot of it.

TC,,,you got a team!,,, maybe miller's best effort yet. and i think they'll all come back for next year too. as for getting zl his shots, the team in general is slow of mind. adams doesn't pass the ball, the twin and parker are mentally a step too slow.

zach has all kinds of raw in him and i'd like to hear what people think of him now. tonight was plain as day but it's been happening since the missouri game - 44% and 22%. he has a sweet jumper when he strokes in rhythm and unobstructed, but if he has to take a jumper with someone near him he'll miss or he'll give up the ball. to wit,,,i don't think he has grit yet. even alford has more aggressiveness. that sweet elbow jumper zl made?(there was only one)...you could see him popping that shot a mile away - he was in perfect rhythm......but that's it and that's the problem

AND HE DOESN'T FINISH HIS DRIVES, nor does he blow by his man. i've seen him challenged and get blocked,,,,all the time. for one with supposed westbrookian athleticism, zl is quite tame. he's misses on alley-oops and doesn't rise above. i've said it often, zl doesn't use his athleticism in any way other than the breakaway dunk. on other aspects of his game he puts the mute button on his athleticism.

but if there's a team who wants to take a chance and draft him in lottery, it's perfect evidence why lottery teams are perrenially lottery teams.

ManualRam · Post #104 » by **ManualRam** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:11 am

i still like him and i'd take him in the lotto if he declares. he wouldn't be taken for the player he is now, but what he can become. he's got all the tools for a SG outside of mass, which he can improve, albeit only to a point as he does have a thin frame.

everything he does is quick. quick hands, feet, moves (changes directions quick enough to get separation), release, laterally he moves well, changes ends extremely well, etc. he doesn't quite know how to harness that quickness and there are times where he'd be better off moving a tick slower, but i'd rather have a prospect who has that quickness to begin with than not. like when he does get to the rim he rushes his shots. he can get to the rim though in a blink of an eye in the same manner that mclemore could, but zach has better ball control. but also like ben, zach doesn't have the strength nor the patience to finish at a high rate. he just needs to be a little less spastic when he's around the rim. that comes with experience and improved strength (he gets knocked off balance easily so that could be a reason why he quick shoots the ball). also, if he has a play called for him, which doesn't happen often, there's a good chance he'll try to get the shot off quickly even if the play doesn't result in an open shot. i think if he were involved a little more on offense he'd be more willing to turn those shots down, since he'd have more opportunities later in the game.

he DOES blow by his man, he just hasn't finished well. and he does take and make more than just wide open shots as seen by right to left crossover pull up which he's made multiple times this yr. his athleticism also plays well defensively as he moves very well laterally. it's masked by UCLA's penchant to play a ton of zone but it's clear as day when they go to their 1-2-2 3/4 press in which alford uses zach at the head.

miltk · Post #105 » by **miltk** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:07 pm

ManualRam wrote:i still like him and i'd take him in the lotto if he declares. he wouldn't be taken for the player he is now, but what he can become. he's got all the tools for a SG outside of mass, which he can improve, albeit only to a point as he does have a thin frame.

ok. i like that description - "spasdic at the rim". that's a more apt phrasing.
still, my last sentence holds - so, lottery teams are willing to draft based on hope. that's a lot of money to throw at hope. i don't think lottery teams are qualified to draft on hope,,,that's why they're always lottery teams. a player like lavine is better off getting drafted late by a GOOD coach/organization.

but here's the thing, i believe there is a well greased process that turns out 1dones, and this process involves elites...elites like love, mayo, rose, evans, davis, wall,even bazz. essentially they are groomed for that day to come. they are not unkniown like lavine. and if zach is thinking to himself "yeah, they're comparing me to westbrook", i will remind him that westy was a 2done.

so in the process of behavior wherein there is a kind of grooming arc for elite high school players to be 1dones, why is lavine be so unique that he is the exception.

Post #106 » by **Ruzious** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:53 pm

miltk wrote:
ManualRam wrote:i still like him and i'd take him in the lotto if he declares. he wouldn't be taken for the player he is now, but what he can become. he's got all the tools for a SG outside of mass, which he can improve, albeit only to a point as he does have a thin frame.

ok. i like that description - "spasdic at the rim". that's a more apt phrasing.
still, my last sentence holds - so, lottery teams are willing to draft based on hope. that's a lot of money to throw at hope. i don't think lottery teams are qualified to draft on hope,,,that's why they're always lottery teams. a player like lavine is better off getting drafted late by a GOOD coach/organization.

but here's the thing, i believe there is a well greased process that turns out 1dones, and this process involves elites...elites like love, mayo, rose, evans, davis, wall,even bazz. essentially they are groomed for that day to come. they are not unkniown like lavine. and if zach is thinking to himself "yeah, they're comparing me to westbrook", i will remind him that westy was a 2done.

so in the process of behavior wherein there is a kind of grooming arc for elite high school players to be 1dones, why is lavine be so unique that he is the exception.

Guys like Mayo and Bazz are why you don't draft on press clippings of who's elite. Otherwise, you make more trips to the lottery. After the first 8 to 10 picks, this draft is a crap shoot, so you take a chance on talent. LaVine is a great talent. And contrary to what people have been criticizing him for - poor shot selection... not being able to finish, the kid's been very efficient - especially considering he's a freshman. He has an eFG and TS% of 65% - which is outstanding. His production has been solid - with a 21 PER even though he's been used at best as a 3rd option. There's room for a lot of improvement because he's a great talent - whether or not he's anything like Westbrook.

ManualRam · Post #107 » by **ManualRam** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:10 pm

miltk wrote:
ManualRam wrote:i still like him and i'd take him in the lotto if he declares. he wouldn't be taken for the player he is now, but what he can become. he's got all the tools for a SG outside of mass, which he can improve, albeit only to a point as he does have a thin frame.

ok. i like that description - "spasdic at the rim". that's a more apt phrasing.
still, my last sentence holds - so, lottery teams are willing to draft based on hope. that's a lot of money to throw at hope. i don't think lottery teams are qualified to draft on hope,,,that's why they're always lottery teams. a player like lavine is better off getting drafted late by a GOOD coach/organization.

but here's the thing, i believe there is a well greased process that turns out 1dones, and this process involves elites...elites like love, mayo, rose, evans, davis, wall,even bazz. essentially they are groomed for that day to come. they are not unkniown like lavine. and if zach is thinking to himself "yeah, they're comparing me to westbrook", i will remind him that westy was a 2done.

so in the process of behavior wherein there is a kind of grooming arc for elite high school players to be 1dones, why is lavine be so unique that he is the exception.

what player isn't taken on "hope"? maybe one that's a sure thing of which there are virtually none.

if other prospects can be taken strictly for their tools, then so can lavine. it doesn't matter where he came from or what ranking he had in HS. if GMs are attracted by his physical tools, then they'll take him.

themaster07 · Post #108 » by **themaster07** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:29 am

After watching yesterday's game (against an elite college team, a very athletic team might i add), my assessment still stands. He can shoot and is very athletic; however, he has more arsenal in his game that needs to be refine (due to the lack of exp). There were glimpse from yesterday where he had the ball in his hands and blew by his defender with ease (whether it was scoring or creating for others). As someone mentioned earlier, he's very quick but he cannot make these plays in transition. I think this is attributed to the fact that 1. He doesn't get to the line as much as he's been used as a shooter 2. He hasn't had much plays that's run through him. If Steve Alford is smart, he should draw up some plays for this kid because he's more of a match up problem than Kyle Anderson is (Lavine's shot is more reliable and is more athletic). Also, he's a pretty slow/lazy defender. Very slow at doubling the opposition and doesn't shows much effort/hustle like Jordan Adams, Westbrook. This obviously can be improved in time.

He needs one more year under his belt to improve on his shot selection, add some weight to his frame, and get use to making basket in transition. I guarantee you he will be a lock as a top 5 pick in 2015. The guy has all the tools to be a special player. If he enters into the draft this year, he'll make it into the lottery due to the tools/potential they see. However, I can see this guy going top 3 in 2015 if he shows signs of improvement.

EMG518 · Post #109 » by **EMG518** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:34 am

He has grown on me a bit after watching him a few times. He has cracked my top 10. Especially with the current lay out at SG in the NBA.

DirtyDez · Post #110 » by **DirtyDez** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:54 pm

Top-3 pick in 2015. Just needs more polish and Adams/Anderson leaving would give him the opportunity to dominate.

Silver Man · Post #111 » by **Silver Man** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:42 pm

Top 8 this year, top five at least next year.

EMG518 · Post #112 » by **EMG518** » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:02 am

DirtyDez wrote:Top-3 pick in 2015. Just needs more polish and Adams/Anderson leaving would give him the opportunity to dominate.

He is better off coming out this year, going top 10 while playing a more limited role behind Anderson and Adams then going back next year and being showcased and likely picked apart all year playing a larger role to have a chance to move up very little. There are guys coming in next year who will be at the top of the draft, there are guys like LaVine who may not be on the radar as much and may jump up, there are guys who may also not declare this year. In his situation looking at being drafted in the top 10 he should declare.

miltk · Post #113 » by **miltk** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:10 am

Whelp...he played like a top3 tonight. Showed the full package. Best all around game to date.

Post #114 » by **Ruzious** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:19 am

miltk wrote:Whelp...he played like a top3 tonight. Showed the full package. Best all around game to date.

He's making the best of being an off the ball player. I'd still like to see how he'd do if given extended time at the point, but it's obviously not going to happen.

miltk · Post #115 » by **miltk** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:40 am

Ruzious wrote:
miltk wrote:Whelp...he played like a top3 tonight. Showed the full package. Best all around game to date.

He's making the best of being an off the ball player. I'd still like to see how he'd do if given extended time at the point, but it's obviously not going to happen.

did damned good job on carson.

dorkestra · Post #116 » by **dorkestra** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:55 am

He has removed any doubt from my mind about his position. I think he definitely looks like a shooting guard - not a point guard.

sikma42 · Post #117 » by **sikma42** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:46 pm

Ruzious wrote:
miltk wrote:Whelp...he played like a top3 tonight. Showed the full package. Best all around game to date.

He's making the best of being an off the ball player. I'd still like to see how he'd do if given extended time at the point, but it's obviously not going to happen.

Judging on his handle on the limited time I've watched in him play, i don't think he would fare very well at point guard. He also would fare very well with a slightly more strict interpretation of the carrying violation.

ManualRam · Post #118 » by **ManualRam** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:14 pm

why does he have to prove whether he can or cant play the point? he looks like a really good sg prospect. the league needs more of those.

Jazzfan12 · Post #119 » by **Jazzfan12** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:32 pm

I have some pretty major concerns about why he isn't putting up stats that athletic players do (few rebounds, few FTAs, bad at the rim, few blocks, not elite steal numbers), but maybe he just needs to learn how to use his body better after his growth spurt.

dorkestra · Post #120 » by **dorkestra** » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:34 pm

ManualRam wrote:why does he have to prove whether he can or cant play the point? he looks like a really good sg prospect. the league needs more of those.

there's nothing wrong with it, but previously it had been said that he could become a pg prospect. tbh, there is far less depth at SG at the moment, so he may as well aim for that, and especially given his skill set.