Demarcus Cousins Should Be Recognized As Best Center

[Kings2013]

Right, well keep watching, if Cousins keeps this play up he'll easily be in the MVP picture for years to come.

MVP picture? That's a little aggressive, don't you think?

What are your expectations of Cousins for his career? Would you ask that question if he said Anthony Davis or Kevin Love? Kings fans think Cousins can be a top 5 player in all seriousness

[Hendrix]

Right, well keep watching, if Cousins keeps this play up he'll easily be in the MVP picture for years to come.

MVP picture? That's a little aggressive, don't you think?

What are your expectations of Cousins for his career? Would you ask that question if he said Anthony Davis or Kevin Love? Kings fans think Cousins can be a top 5 player in all seriousness

I think Anthony Davis is in a whole other class, and will eventually be in MVP discussions.

My problem with his statement was that it implied that Cousins is currently playing like an MVP. He didn't say he needed to improve to be in the MVP picture, just that if he can keep up his level of play he'll be in the MVP picture.

Imho, he's had a couple of his teammates play pretty well. IT, and Gay. To me, if your current play is MVP discussion level, and you have some players that are playing pretty well on your team, then there is no way your team should be 13-22. Therefore there must be a problem with the premise of Cousins currently playing at the level that he'd be in MVP discussions.

As to your question of what I expect from him in his career. Prior to this year I was not impressed. Inefficient volume shooting does nothing for me. Prior to this season I though he would be similar to Randolph (who I'm not particularly high on). This year he's gotten his TS%, and ORTG up to a pretty solid level considering his usg% though, so my expectations of him have increased. That said, there is a pretty big gap between Randolph, and MVP discussion.

If I had to guess, I would think he'll end up as a perennial all star on the level of guys like Pierce, Vince Carter, Pau Gasol type level. Guys that are very good players year in and year out, but can't 'do it all' and will your team to the playoffs by themselves like you would expect from someone in the discussion for MVP.

[SacKingZZZ]

Right, well keep watching, if Cousins keeps this play up he'll easily be in the MVP picture for years to come.

MVP picture? That's a little aggressive, don't you think?

If this team ever starts to win and he sustains his play, 25 and 12 bigs are typically in that picture year after year so.... when the league has them that is. Been a while since there were many.

[SacKingZZZ]

MVP picture? That's a little aggressive, don't you think?

What are your expectations of Cousins for his career? Would you ask that question if he said Anthony Davis or Kevin Love? Kings fans think Cousins can be a top 5 player in all seriousness

I think Anthony Davis is in a whole other class, and will eventually be in MVP discussions.

My problem with his statement was that it implied that Cousins is currently playing like an MVP. He didn't say he needed to improve to be in the MVP picture, just that if he can keep up his level of play he'll be in the MVP picture.

Imho, he's had a couple of his teammates play pretty well. IT, and Gay. To me, if your current play is MVP discussion level, and you have some players that are playing pretty well on your team, then there is no way your team should be 13-22. Therefore there must be a problem with the premise of Cousins currently playing at the level that he'd be in MVP discussions.

As to your question of what I expect from him in his career. Prior to this year I was not impressed. Inefficient volume shooting does nothing for me. Prior to this season I though he would be similar to Randolph (who I'm not particularly high on). This year he's gotten his TS%, and ORTG up to a pretty solid level considering his usg% though, so my expectations of him have increased. That said, there is a pretty big gap between Randolph, and MVP discussion.

If I had to guess, I would think he'll end up as a perennial all star on the level of guys like Pierce, Vince Carter, Pau Gasol type level. Guys that are very good players year in and year out, but can't 'do it all' and will your team to the playoffs by themselves like you would expect from someone in the discussion for MVP.

Davis is not a true "go to" guy, so we'll see where he can lead a team or if he improves in that area. Players you can toss the ball to, get out of the way of, and watch them dominate their matchup most nights are on a different level all together.

I wasn't saying he's an MVP candidate now. Obviously a team with a losing record is unlikely to ever see an MVP award to one of their players. It doesn't mean any individual player can't be putting up "MVP type numbers".

[Hendrix]

Davis is not a true "go to" guy, so we'll see where he can lead a team or if he improves in that area. Players you can toss the ball to, get out of the way of, and watch them dominate their matchup most nights are on a different level all together.

I disagree with this conclusion. I mean, KG wasn't great in terms of being a #1 option, but in his prime he was a way better all around player than a lot of guys that were good #1 options, but lacked in other areas.

I wasn't saying he's an MVP candidate now. Obviously a team with a losing record is unlikely to ever see an MVP award to one of their players. It doesn't mean any individual player can't be putting up "MVP type numbers".

But, if he was playing like a legit MVP calibre player would they have a substantial losing record? That's kind of my point. I mean, lets look at true MVP calibre contenders over the last couple decades. Shaq, Kobe, Lebron, KG, Duncan, CP3 type guys. How many seasons between them did they have a team with a 37% winning %?

I mean, if you lower the bar a bit to 'all star', yeah lots of all stars have been on losing teams. But, if someone is playing like an MVP, and has some talent on their team, then there's no way they should have a 37% record. The only conclusion I see is that they aren't playing like an MVP.

[Kings2013]

How is Anthony Davis in another class? 3 blocks? that supersedes the most dominating offensive presence down low that commands a double team almost automatically?

[SacKingZZZ]

Davis is not a true "go to" guy, so we'll see where he can lead a team or if he improves in that area. Players you can toss the ball to, get out of the way of, and watch them dominate their matchup most nights are on a different level all together.

I disagree with this conclusion. I mean, KG wasn't great in terms of being a #1 option, but in his prime he was a way better all around player than a lot of guys that were good #1 options, but lacked in other areas.

I wasn't saying he's an MVP candidate now. Obviously a team with a losing record is unlikely to ever see an MVP award to one of their players. It doesn't mean any individual player can't be putting up "MVP type numbers".

But, if he was playing like a legit MVP calibre player would they have a substantial losing record? That's kind of my point. I mean, lets look at true MVP calibre contenders over the last couple decades. Shaq, Kobe, Lebron, KG, Duncan, CP3 type guys. How many seasons between them did they have a team with a 37% winning %?

I mean, if you lower the bar a bit to 'all star', yeah lots of all stars have been on losing teams. But, if someone is playing like an MVP, and has some talent on their team, then there's no way they should have a 37% record. The only conclusion I see is that they aren't playing like an MVP.

What does KG have to do with this? KG was still a player that could manufacture a ton of offense for his team. I haven't seen that out of Davis to any great degree yet. There is a difference in pure production and the context of how that production came to be.

Chicken or the egg? It depends on where you set the bar and history shows the only players that will be truly considered as a winner for the award in the first place will be ones from winning teams. Now, there are still players that often seem to find themselves in the conversation or "picture" as an individual even though their teams could be doing better. Will they win? Probably not. Plenty of great or potentially great players are on bad teams. Part of that has to do with the draft process BTW, it's supposed to give bad teams a shot at some real talent. Unless you think that if you took Cousins and put him on the say, the Heat or Spurs, they'd fall into the recesses of mediocrity.

[enderwilson]

Davis is not a true "go to" guy, so we'll see where he can lead a team or if he improves in that area. Players you can toss the ball to, get out of the way of, and watch them dominate their matchup most nights are on a different level all together.

I disagree with this conclusion. I mean, KG wasn't great in terms of being a #1 option, but in his prime he was a way better all around player than a lot of guys that were good #1 options, but lacked in other areas.

I however agree with the second sentence 100%. I bet that over the course of their careers that when Davis and Demarcus go head to head, Demarcus will dominate. I know Davis is young and has a ton of upside as a player, but so does Demarcus. And I see Davis' contributions primarily relying on his abilities as an athlete, whereas DMC represents a basketball talent that is still raw, untapped and potentially boundless. In the NBA talent>>athleticism.

[enderwilson]

Davis is not a true "go to" guy, so we'll see where he can lead a team or if he improves in that area. Players you can toss the ball to, get out of the way of, and watch them dominate their matchup most nights are on a different level all together.

I disagree with this conclusion. I mean, KG wasn't great in terms of being a #1 option, but in his prime he was a way better all around player than a lot of guys that were good #1 options, but lacked in other areas.

I wasn't saying he's an MVP candidate now. Obviously a team with a losing record is unlikely to ever see an MVP award to one of their players. It doesn't mean any individual player can't be putting up "MVP type numbers".

But, if he was playing like a legit MVP calibre player would they have a substantial losing record? That's kind of my point. I mean, lets look at true MVP calibre contenders over the last couple decades. Shaq, Kobe, Lebron, KG, Duncan, CP3 type guys. How many seasons between them did they have a team with a 37% winning %?

I mean, if you lower the bar a bit to 'all star', yeah lots of all stars have been on losing teams. But, if someone is playing like an MVP, and has some talent on their team, then there's no way they should have a 37% record. The only conclusion I see is that they aren't playing like an MVP.

What does KG have to do with this? KG was still a player that could manufacture a ton of offense for his team. I haven't seen that out of Davis to any great degree yet. There is a difference in pure production and the context of how that production came to be.

Chicken or the egg? It depends on where you set the bar and history shows the only players that will be truly considered as a winner for the award in the first place will be ones from winning teams. Now, there are still players that often seem to find themselves in the conversation or "picture" as an individual even though their teams could be doing better. Will they win? Probably not. Plenty of great or potentially great players are on bad teams. Part of that has to do with the draft process BTW, it's supposed to give bad teams a shot at some real talent. Unless you think that if you took Cousins and put him on the say, the Heat or Spurs, they'd fall into the recesses of mediocrity.

Wasn't KGs Minnesota teams mired in mediocrity as well? It took wingmen in Spreewell and Sam i am Cassell in order for them to make a deep run into the playoffs. He had to go to Boston and run with Peirce and Allen in order to get a ring. All demonstrating again that you can't judge the legitimacy of an MVP talent by their sole ability to make a successful team.

[Big_Cat]

Team cancer and a terrible defensive player doesn't equate to a guy who belongs in top players in the league conversations.

Right, well keep watching, if Cousins keeps this play up he'll easily be in the MVP picture for years to come.

To be fair, you did also think Tyreke was going to be an elite guard in the league for years to come

[Brapman]

Anthony Davis is a PF. He can go up against some of the league's less huge centers, but him matched up against Boogie would be a bit insane. Cousins would ultimately just wear him down.

Davis needs a Center to play with, and Cousins would probably be a perfect pairing for him.

The competition in our league will ultimately be Cousins vs. Drummond. Andre's three years younger and doesn't have much, if any, of Cousins offensive refinement - but he's an extremely coachable kid whose game has improved a lot over the last year. Drummond can catch up and pass him as an all-around player, but that'll take a few seasons.

Cousin's still scares me. I still think he's a ticking time-bomb. But clearly, he's having a fantastic season. If the Kings can keep his head on straight and surround him with the right complimentary talent - especially some high quality defensive and team first players, that could be very nice. His talent level is of an elite C.

But, because of the head screwed on concern, I'd pick either Davis or Drummond before Boogie if starting a team.

[Cruel_Ruin]

But, if he was playing like a legit MVP calibre player would they have a substantial losing record? That's kind of my point. I mean, lets look at true MVP calibre contenders over the last couple decades. Shaq, Kobe, Lebron, KG, Duncan, CP3 type guys. How many seasons between them did they have a team with a 37% winning %?

I mean, if you lower the bar a bit to 'all star', yeah lots of all stars have been on losing teams. But, if someone is playing like an MVP, and has some talent on their team, then there's no way they should have a 37% record. The only conclusion I see is that they aren't playing like an MVP.

What SacKingZZZ is trying to say (and a position I happen to agree with) is that if Cousins puts up those numbers on a 50+ win team, he'd easily be in the discussion for MVP.

I think you're underestimating just how devoid of talent this Kings team was to begin the year. Before the Rudy Gay trade, the Kings had TWO players (Thomas and Cousins) who were above league average in TS%. Just two!! And even then, the Kings were middle of the pack in offensive rating. Thats incredible. Two players were buoying a team of hot garbage to a league average offense. And lets not even get started on the defense.

Since the Rudy Gay trade, the team has gone 7-8, and their offensive rating has rocketed to 109.94 over those fifteen games. That would be good for fourth in the entire league extrapolated over a season. That being said, most of the junk that was on the team in the beginning of the year is still there. Imagine if you replaced Marcus Thornton (who forgot how to play basketball over the summer) with a reliable shooter/defender like Courtney Lee? Imagine if you replaced Jason Thompson (who is the living embodiment of mediocrity) with a good defender like Taj Gibson? You might be looking at a team that goes 10-5 over that span. And I'm not even talking about adding stars, just competent roleplayers around the Thomas/Gay/Cousins trio.

So the question is not whether Cousins can lead a winning team, the bigger question is what kind of numbers does Cousins put up on a team thats winning. Which is why the caveat for myself and other posters is mainly whether Cousins can maintain those numbers when the team around him is better. Cousins' numbers + winning team = MVP Candidate.