Is Wall Top 5 PG?

milellie111 · Post #1 » by **milellie111** » Tue Jan 14, 2014 6:26 pm

Let's face it, John Wall is on a tear. He has gained respect league wide by coaches. Mainly, because he has a jump shot that has to be respected now.

Do you view him as a top 5 PG? Taking all things into account (including defense) would you say he may be the best overall? How would you rank:? Paul, Rose, Westbrook, Parker, Curry? Who would fall out of the top 5 and who would Wall replace? Can't forget about Rondo either. Where does Irving and Derron Williams fall? What sets Wall apart from any of these guys?

verbal8 · Post #2 » by **verbal8** » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:06 pm

This season I would put Wall and Westbrook tied at number 4. Paul, Parker and Curry are the top 3. Rose hasn't produced anything this season and the knee issues are such a cloud on his future. Wall's defense is better than Irving so that gives him an edge. Deron Williams has been pretty disappointing this season, so he is in the tier below.

GeeWiz · Post #3 » by **GeeWiz** » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:10 pm

If Wall were to be top 5, he'd replace Parker. Dwill is way overrated in my opinion, and Rondo just plain can't shoot. Irving is horrid on defensive, and I personally think he's just a SG with good handles, no instincts of a leader. Lilliard would have to be in the conversation as well. But I think it goes something like this (biased Wizards fan):
1. Paul
2. Westbrook
3. Curry
4. Wall
5. Parker (Rose would be 4, but he's done imo)

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truwizfan4evr · Post #4 » by **truwizfan4evr** » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:17 pm

GeeWiz wrote:If Wall were to be top 5, he'd replace Parker. Dwill is way overrated in my opinion, and Rondo just plain can't shoot. Irving is horrid on defensive, and I personally think he's just a SG with good handles, no instincts of a leader. Lilliard would have to be in the conversation as well. But I think it goes something like this (biased Wizards fan):
1. Paul
2. Westbrook
3. Curry
4. Wall
5. Parker (Rose would be 4, but he's done imo)

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Pretty sure Damian lillard is on that list also.

dlts20 · Post #5 » by **dlts20** » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:17 pm

if Im correct, Wall came back a lil over a year ago. In that time if you put his production and impact to his team on the floor against the other PG's then I would say he is 3rd behind Paul & Curry. Even with big assist though I still consider Curry more of a SG playing point like Arenas was and Irving is now. If you want to throw Parker in there, I have no problem. Westbrook maybe if healthy but he's been hurt a ton in this past year so I would have Wall over him. No one else has a strong case in my view so he's definitely top 5 at worst and I still think this is teh worst Wall you will see. If he had a more attacking system then I think he would dominate instead of this horrible, horizontal, Flip/Witt Offense

dlts20 · Post #6 » by **dlts20** » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:19 pm

truwizfan4evr wrote:
GeeWiz wrote:If Wall were to be top 5, he'd replace Parker. Dwill is way overrated in my opinion, and Rondo just plain can't shoot. Irving is horrid on defensive, and I personally think he's just a SG with good handles, no instincts of a leader. Lilliard would have to be in the conversation as well. But I think it goes something like this (biased Wizards fan):
1. Paul
2. Westbrook
3. Curry
4. Wall
5. Parker (Rose would be 4, but he's done imo)

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Pretty sure Damian lillard is on that list also.

I dont think so unless you dont count Westbrook due to injury. Lillard is good but its still a lil more hype then substance just due to him being a rookie last year. Age wise he's not that far behind and in production its not super effecient when you look at his numbers more. Im really interested to see what Rondo looks like when he returns

Dat2U · Post #7 » by **Dat2U** » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:36 pm

Top 5, not yet. Top 10, yes. I expect to him to be top 3 within the next year or two. As Chris Paul declines over next few years, I believe Wall will be the best PG in the league.

Illmatic21 · Post #8 » by **Illmatic21** » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:40 pm

Rose and Rondo are unranked until further notice. Deron Williams is done.

Chris Paul is hands down the best point guard in the league. But Wall definitely has an argument for top 5, though there are so many good point guards right now.

This season my top 5 is: Paul, Curry, Westbrook, Wall, Parker in that order. I had Westbrook at 2nd coming into the season, but Steph Curry is playing like a bonafide superstar. Despite his defensive shortcomings, his overall level of play has him as my #2.

But the discussion doesn't just end with that group, there are so many good point guards who deserve mention. Mike Conley is an outstanding defender and great all around PG, and a bigtime clutch performer to boot. Kyle Lowry is playing really well on both ends for a winning squad. Lillard has the green light and he's shooting lights out. Irving is a great scorer but on a crappy team, switch him and Lillard and a lot of opinions would change.

A lot of these players are doing well because of the system around them. Lillard, to me, is an awesome shooter who happens to be in a favorable system for shooters. He's playing well, but it's hard to really rank him as a pure point guard. Eric Bledsoe and Dragic are putting up great stats, as is Ty Lawson with the Nuggets. But again, they're in great systems for scoring point guards, so it's hard to tell how good they really are.

Illmatic21 · Post #9 » by **Illmatic21** » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:48 pm

dlts20 wrote:if Im correct, Wall came back a lil over a year ago. In that time if you put his production and impact to his team on the floor against the other PG's then I would say he is 3rd behind Paul & Curry. Even with big assist though I still consider Curry more of a SG playing point like Arenas was and Irving is now. If you want to throw Parker in there, I have no problem. Westbrook maybe if healthy but he's been hurt a ton in this past year so I would have Wall over him. No one else has a strong case in my view so he's definitely top 5 at worst and I still think this is teh worst Wall you will see. If he had a more attacking system then I think he would dominate instead of this horrible, horizontal, Flip/Witt Offense

Curry is not an "SG playing point".. Arenas and Irving (and Lillard), yes. Curry, no.

Curry has pure PG skills. He'll regularly have games where he posts a statline like 12 points/13 assists. You would never see that line from a combo guard or shoot-first guy. When they need him to exploit matchups and look for his own shot, he'll do that. But he can also take a backseat and orchestrate the offense for his teammates (though with a lot of TOs)

stevemcqueen1 · Post #10 » by **stevemcqueen1** » Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:03 pm

This year,

1.) Paul
2.) Curry
3.) Parker
4.) Wall

I'd say Westbrook is in there, but he only got 25 games and 800 some odd minutes.

So 5 goes to either Lillard or Irving.

Nivek · Post #11 » by **Nivek** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:07 am

Dat2U wrote:Top 5, not yet. Top 10, yes. I expect to him to be top 3 within the next year or two. As Chris Paul declines over next few years, I believe Wall will be the best PG in the league.

As is often the case, Dat is correct about Wall's current ranking.

As for the future: Paul (and others) will have to do some major declining or Wall will have to do some major improving.

dlts20 · Post #12 » by **dlts20** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:34 am

Nivek wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Top 5, not yet. Top 10, yes. I expect to him to be top 3 within the next year or two. As Chris Paul declines over next few years, I believe Wall will be the best PG in the league.

As is often the case, Dat is correct about Wall's current ranking.

As for the future: Paul (and others) will have to do some major declining or Wall will have to do some major improving.

put him in the right system and he's there. As for not top 5, who would you guys put over him

tontoz · Post #13 » by **tontoz** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:55 am

I agree Wall is not top 5 currently. He is still too turnover prone and his scoring efficiency is weak. He needs to improve in those areas to be top 5. His turnovers don't seem to be going down at all which is bothersome.

I do believe he can be better than Westbrook, maybe even pre-injury Rose.

jeffsays · Post #14 » by **jeffsays** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:18 am

If we were talking about the Wall of last year who was dominating the league, then yes, I would put him in the top 5 easy. This year, I haven't been nearly impressed with John. His jump shot is no where near as accurate as last season. It seemed like every game the only thing opposing fans could say was, "Oh man, John Wall is going off again" and "Gotta stop Wall from taking over this game". This year, Wall hasn't been shooting as well or driving a whole lot either. Part of me believes that he sees all the injuries to the PG's across the league and slows himself down because of it. Another reason could be that he is saving it for the playoffs. Either way I hope it is one of those two reasons because I'd love to see that John Wall return.

jivelikenice · Post #15 » by **jivelikenice** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:03 am

There's a clear top four in Parker, Paul, Westbrook, & Curry. Wall is in the next tier and where he ranks amongst the next group is up for debate....

milellie111 · Post #16 » by **milellie111** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:48 am

jeffsays wrote:If we were talking about the Wall of last year who was dominating the league, then yes, I would put him in the top 5 easy. This year, I haven't been nearly impressed with John. His jump shot is no where near as accurate as last season. It seemed like every game the only thing opposing fans could say was, "Oh man, John Wall is going off again" and "Gotta stop Wall from taking over this game". This year, Wall hasn't been shooting as well or driving a whole lot either. Part of me believes that he sees all the injuries to the PG's across the league and slows himself down because of it. Another reason could be that he is saving it for the playoffs. Either way I hope it is one of those two reasons because I'd love to see that John Wall return.

I'm not understanding this assessment. You say Wall dominated the league last year but is not the same this year?

Season 12-13 Avg. 18.5 points and 7.6 assists

Season 13-14 Avg 19.6 points and 8.6 assists

Previous years Wall did not shoot as much, but he actually seems to shoot way more this year. If you look up his stats, his 3 point attempts and made 3 pointers more than doubled from last year.

dlts20 · Post #17 » by **dlts20** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:41 am

jeffsays wrote:If we were talking about the Wall of last year who was dominating the league, then yes, I would put him in the top 5 easy. This year, I haven't been nearly impressed with John. His jump shot is no where near as accurate as last season. It seemed like every game the only thing opposing fans could say was, "Oh man, John Wall is going off again" and "Gotta stop Wall from taking over this game". This year, Wall hasn't been shooting as well or driving a whole lot either. Part of me believes that he sees all the injuries to the PG's across the league and slows himself down because of it. Another reason could be that he is saving it for the playoffs. Either way I hope it is one of those two reasons because I'd love to see that John Wall return.

in December Wall was on the list for player of the month after averaging 22 & 9 on 45% shooting. He did that for a whole month. The game before that month he had 26pts 12ast 6bds & 5stls on 50% shooting and the game after that month he had 22pts 7bds & 5ast on 45% shooting. 3 games before that December stretch he won player of the week after having 3 straight 30pt games on over 50% shooting. To be exact he had 37, 6, & 2 while shooting 72% against Toronto, 31, 7, &4 while shooting 56% against NY, and 31, 9, & 6 while shooting 56% against LA.

Over that stretch he had one of the highest per's in the league and until recently he was the 3rd rated PG in the whole league behind Paul & Curry. Fans are so quick to forget. He was playing lights out for a long time

stevemcqueen1 · Post #18 » by **stevemcqueen1** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:13 am

If Wall isn't in the top five this season, who is ahead of him?

Scabs304 · Post #19 » by **Scabs304** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:58 am

Yes he is. Glad I could answer your question.

jeffsays · Post #20 » by **jeffsays** » Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:06 am

dlts20 wrote:in December Wall was on the list for player of the month after averaging 22 & 9 on 45% shooting. He did that for a whole month. The game before that month he had 26pts 12ast 6bds & 5stls on 50% shooting and the game after that month he had 22pts 7bds & 5ast on 45% shooting. 3 games before that December stretch he won player of the week after having 3 straight 30pt games on over 50% shooting. To be exact he had 37, 6, & 2 while shooting 72% against Toronto, 31, 7, &4 while shooting 56% against NY, and 31, 9, & 6 while shooting 56% against LA.

Over that stretch he had one of the highest per's in the league and until recently he was the 3rd rated PG in the whole league behind Paul & Curry. Fans are so quick to forget. He was playing lights out for a long time

Good point, I guess to me he seems like he is in a slump at the moment and he's not even playing that bad. He's just not elite. I guess I just got used to him playing so well that I got down when he starting play above average. Still love him though.