OT: PED's IN THE NBA

[myersia]

I felt like this thread would be an interesting change of discussion. We have had countless tanking, fire MDA, pau needs to be traded, and CBA threads this season. I figured why not turn our attention away from this dismal season for a second and discuss PEDS in the NBA.

I hate Bill Simmons. But I found his statement about PED's to be interesting:

"Why aren't we asking that now with the other sports? What about basketball? Go on YouTube and watch a basketball game from 1977 and see what the guys look like. You really think there are no PED guys in the NBA right now? You've got to be kidding me.

"It's just funny to me. If we end up repeating this whole cycle with the NBA. Everybody is going to be like, 'How did we not know?' It's the same thing we were going through with baseball in the late nineties."

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... rs-On-PEDs

I've been wondering for quite some time when the NBA will get in trouble for some type of PED's. When it comes to Lakers players I have always feared that Kobe could be the Barry Bonds of the NBA. In recent years I would guess that Kobe, Shaq (to an extent) and Bynum might have used PED's.

In the 90's: Jordan, Pippen, Webber, Malone, Mourning first come to mind. Don't think Robinson would do such a thing. Shaq...not sure. He is a big dude regardless.
2000's: Vince Carter, Kobe, LeBron, Wade, D. Howard, Iggy, C. Maggette, Ben Wallace come to mind (plenty more these names just stick out).
Current NBA: LeBron, Howard, Kobe (last year prior to season), Wade, Westbrook, A. Davis (soon), C.Paul, D. Rose (soon), Irving (soon) come to mind. Just can't see Durant using but it's possible.

Just want to hear thoughts. Let the discussion begin. I didn't list many stars because these were the names that came to mind at first. I will take time to think of more as the discussion continues.

[Slava]

I could suggest better drug testing rules and NBA is a joke for not even monitoring HGH & testosterone but MLB has the best drug testing policy in pro sports and look at how many cheats routinely come out when a scandal like Biogenesis leaks. UNless you have a biological passport of every athlete that gives you a baseline to compare with, there's far too many synthetic drug makers that help you cheat the system.

If I'm looking for players who are on the juice in the NBA, I'd look at players who have actively shunned participating in international events like the FIBA & Olympics.

I'm still waiting for David Ortiz to admit what he was on during the world series. I mean if there was a statistical outlier that screams PEDs, its him and yes I'm a pissed off cardinals fan.

[H00PDREAMS]

I dont think steroids can turn you in to a Magic or Kobe. Just doesn't happen. Makes you stronger gives you more energy. How do I know? I actively take testosterone for a serrious medical issue and have been for sometime. Let me tell you my Jay is still flat and I still cant dunk. However, I run the court like no ones business these days.

Also i knew quite of few bball players in my day that had LeBron's build. I went to school with a Tongan guy that could ball his ass off and he was big as house. Let me tell you if he played at a bigger high school. He would have been in the NBA instead I think he became a youth pastor.

I've been around basketball all my life and I never heard of such nonsense. Sure there may be a few idiots out there that are taking all kinds of things. However, I think most take stuff to recover from injuries. This idea that players in the NBA are all on PEDs is flawed. I abhor the player LeBron James but its hard for me to believe that he maybe on PEDs. Cos I have seen his type of player before - body size wise. Just because a bunch of MLB players are on the juice don't mean the same culture is flourishing in the NBA.

[crazyeights]

No one thought it was interesting for Kobe to lose his weight for the Olympics so he could be their "defensive stopper"?

I'd say any guy who is playing at a high level past historical milestones is under suspicion.

[dockingsched]

I try not to throw mud at any other player when this comes up cause kobe is right up there among the top candidates. The turn around he made last yr at his age after about 5 yrs of steady decline was kinda miraculous.

[Michael Lucky]

It's clearly obvious to any logical person that the NBA is full of players using PEDs considering the physical nature of the sport and the numerous injuries that come with it. What i'm most surprised about though is how the NBA has been able to sweep it under the rug for so long (but then again being the third most popular sports behind the NFL and the MLB helps). One day it will catch up to them like all the rest.

[Doormatt]

I dont think steroids can turn you in to a Magic or Kobe. Just doesn't happen. Makes you stronger gives you more energy. How do I know? I actively take testosterone for a serrious medical issue and have been for sometime. Let me tell you my Jay is still flat and I still cant dunk. However, I run the court like no ones business these days.

do you do testosterone replacement therapy because of a lack of natural testosterone? because that is way different than someone with normal levels of test taking it.

[Atlas]

I dont think steroids can turn you in to a Magic or Kobe. Just doesn't happen. Makes you stronger gives you more energy. How do I know? I actively take testosterone for a serrious medical issue and have been for sometime. Let me tell you my Jay is still flat and I still cant dunk. However, I run the court like no ones business these days.

do you do testosterone replacement therapy because of a lack of natural testosterone? because that is way different than someone with normal levels of test taking it.

This.

Also, @ crazyeights, passing career milestones means very little in basketball, in my opinion. The drugs haven't changed much over the years, with the exception of insulin, which would be a rarity in the NBA. It's fairly safe to say that Wilt was at least using test and dbol. Supposedly Wilt lifted with Arnold consistently and I doubt Wilt was worried about health repercussions, considering his sexual history. Players have always used PEDs since near the beginning.

I'd say the most obvious way to tell if a player uses PEDs is to compare his high school aesthetics to his pro aesthetics. It's relatively tough to use PEDs in high school and understand PCTs, AIs, and stacking. In the Pros, it becomes a lot easier to find a guru to help out. I'd also believe posts would use PEDs than backcourt players. Posts benefit from being heavier and also have shorter careers due to injuries. I don't want to accuse anyone. Some players physiques are good enough where I wouldn't be surprised if they did use PEDs. These include Nikola Pekovic, Wade, Iggy, Dwight, Bynum, Marc Gasol, Noah, and Bledsoe.

Lastly, although LeBron's a lot bigger than he was in high school, LeBron's build is completely overrated. I doubt he weighs over 240, probably around 230. He's skinny-fat, has small arms and legs. Aaron W. Reed, a natural bodybuilder, is 6'7" and has an off-season weight of 260. He completely dwarfs LeBron. I hate hearing about how big LeBron is, because he just isn't. He may be on PEDs, but it doesn't show.

[TonyMontana]

The drugs haven't changed much over the years, with the exception of insulin, which would be a rarity in the NBA.

Sure it has. Different stacks, creams etc. Far more selections and different choices in the market today than there ever was.

It's fairly safe to say that Wilt was at least using test and dbol. Supposedly Wilt lifted with Arnold consistently and I doubt Wilt was worried about health repercussions, considering his sexual history. Players have always used PEDs since near the beginning.

LMAO.............. Wilt was known for having heart problems and being a heavy drinker, which are two of the biggest reasons for anyone with a bit of common sense to stay away from juicing nevertheless like you said Test AND Dbol!!

So why would a man that has a history of heart problem and is a heavy drinker Test but Test and Dbol (like you said) when everybody in the world knows that Dbol alone is known for heavy Liver damage and high heart/blood pressure that increases the risk of heart attack and other heart diseases?? Dbol is one of the most potent and dangerous roid in the world to this day?? And your claiming that Wilt uses it because he hung out with Arnold?
Is that correct?

By the way we all know (like you said) Wilt was very sexually active. Right?
Dbol at even one tab of 25mg which is NOTHING to see gains for a 8 weeks cycle is known for impotence and reduced sex drive that's why you need to take Nolvadex since Dbol is very well known to turn into estrogen and in some athletes causes gynecomastia ('bitch tits') and the side effects of Nolvadex alone is crazy like Allergic reaction, Itching or hives, swelling in your face or hands, swelling or tingling in your mouth or throat, chest tightness, trouble breathing. Chest pain, shortness of breath, or coughing up blood. Fever, chills, cough, sore throat, and body aches. Nausea, vomiting, loss of appetite, or pain in your upper stomach. New breast lumps. Loss of interest in sex or trouble having sex (in men). Rash Trouble with sleeping.

Yet you claim not only did he take Test but Dbol as well. Huhh??

I'd say the most obvious way to tell if a player uses PEDs is to compare his high school aesthetics to his pro aesthetics.

Really so you never went through puberty?? Everyones body changes from High School to his adult life. I know mine did.

It's relatively tough to use PEDs in high school and understand PCTs, AIs, and stacking. In the Pros, it becomes a lot easier to find a guru to help out.

WOW....Really??
Well over 21% of high school kids not only athletes but High school kids have juiced. Go on every site like bodybuilders.com bodybuilding.com and so on and so on and you can see millions of posts on how to juice what are good stacks how many CC to take and when and where to inject, how to stack what to stack etc. Hell you can even order legit gear from most sites that come right to your front door.

I'd also believe posts would use PEDs than backcourt players. Posts benefit from being heavier and also have shorter careers due to injuries. I don't want to accuse anyone. Some players physiques are good enough where I wouldn't be surprised if they did use PEDs. These include Nikola Pekovic, Wade, Iggy, Dwight, Bynum, Marc Gasol, Noah, and Bledsoe.

You cant be serious?? Marc Gasol, Noah lol

Lastly, although LeBron's a lot bigger than he was in high school, LeBron's build is completely overrated. I doubt he weighs over 240, probably around 230. He's skinny-fat, has small arms and legs.

Overrated. Dudes a beast for a ball player. Have you ever seen him in person. I have met him and Im 6 ft tall and I weight 210 lbs pretty built so I have been told and I look like a kid standing next to him. He could easily play in the NFL for his size in a lot of different positions. Dude was a man child out of high school and your telling me he isn't big??
Check the internet and look at a picture of Shaq and The "Rock" Dwayne Johnson with Barkley and then look at a pic with Shaq and Lebron when Lebron wasn't even as big as he is today. Rock is a BIG dude but he is nothing close to Lebrons size or body.

Aaron W. Reed, a natural bodybuilder, is 6'7" and has an off-season weight of 260. He completely dwarfs LeBron. I hate hearing about how big LeBron is, because he just isn't. He may be on PEDs, but it doesn't show.

Aaron Reed use to be in WWE, every single one of them are juicing. Plus Reed is more considered as a fitness model than a true bodybuilder since he has a very nice body but nothing close to competing with the real bodybuilders. That's why he is considered a fitness model more than a bodybuilder seeing how he has never competed in a major event like Arnold classis or Mr O.
Ronnie Coleman, Phil Heath, Kai Greene Jay Cutlar are considered Bodybuilders, Reed is a fitness model. Not even close and yes he's not a natural bodybuilder. He juiced his arse off like everybody else.

You also claimed that 260 is his off season weight which in other words means he is bulking/stacking to his competition weight which usually is in the bodybuilding world about 20 to 40 pounds over your competition weight. So lets say even at 240 competition weight of a man who is 6.7 is not really that impressive. Not even close.

A true body builder like Jay Cutler or Coleman can put on a 100 lbs offseason and lose it come comp season. So he isn't really as big as you claim him to be. Maybe fit but not even big to be considered a true bodybuilder.

[Air Poohdini]

Dwyane Wade has a jaw like a pitbull, that might be from the HGH.

[Mamba Venom]

Before they said that BalCo involved NBA players, now nothing has came of it. Its all ARod. The MLB paid $125,000 for docs to get ARod. I bet a player paid $100,000+ to get his page shredded.

Something doesnt make sense about the unnamed NBA players that everyone is forgetting about.

[TonyMontana]

Dwyane Wade has a jaw like a pitbull, that might be from the HGH.

He does have a F#@$d up face. lol

But that's the problem people don't understand the difference between HGH and Juicing.

The hormone in our bodies as you age it slows down, or even reverse. Usually HGH replacement begin at about the age of 30 years, but HGH replacement therapy can be beneficial at any age above 30 since your body is producing enough HGH until you reach or pass the age of 30 so it has no benefits if your under 30 years old.
That's why its called the fountain of youth.

[TonyMontana]

Its all ARod. The MLB paid $125,000 for docs to get ARod.

That's cause he is douche bag and he isn't a first time offender and the Yankees just wanted to part ways with him since he sucks now. Whats the best way to get rid of his contract. Get Major league Baseball to do it for you. I actually saw him and Jeter down in Corona Del Mar in O.C the night before they played the Angels last year at a lounge called Landmark. He had an average body. I mean nothing remotely close to a pro athlete. More like a car salesmen. lol

[H00PDREAMS]

This guy was just better than most. I bet if PEDs were around back then they would think he was on them as well.

[Atlas]

Calm down man, why so angry?

The drugs haven't changed much over the years, with the exception of insulin, which would be a rarity in the NBA.

Sure it has. Different stacks, creams etc. Far more selections and different choices in the market today than there ever was.

We have different opinions here. Test has always been test and dbol has always been dbol. New ideas may come about, but steroids have always done the exact same thing: boost testosterone.

It's fairly safe to say that Wilt was at least using test and dbol. Supposedly Wilt lifted with Arnold consistently and I doubt Wilt was worried about health repercussions, considering his sexual history. Players have always used PEDs since near the beginning.

LMAO.............. Wilt was known for having heart problems and being a heavy drinker, which are two of the biggest reasons for anyone with a bit of common sense to stay away from juicing nevertheless like you said Test AND Dbol!!

Like I said, I don't think Wilt was too concerned with health repercussions. I think we're agreeing here that Wilt may have made some questionable decisions.

So why would a man that has a history of heart problem and is a heavy drinker Test but Test and Dbol (like you said) when everybody in the world knows that Dbol alone is known for heavy Liver damage and high heart/blood pressure that increases the risk of heart attack and other heart diseases?? Dbol is one of the most potent and dangerous roid in the world to this day?? And your claiming that Wilt uses it because he hung out with Arnold?
Is that correct?

I'm not sure why Wilt would use test and dbol. I wouldn't judge him if he did though, because I understand he wanted to be the best he could be.

I'm not claiming Wilt used because he hung out with Arnold. I'm claiming Wilt used because he was a lean 275lb basketball player. He was strong as an ox. Wilt wanted to win. Based on his other decisions, he would not have worried about the health repercussions. Further, because he lifted with Arnold, Wilt would have been exposed to test itself and dbol. Would you make the case that Wilt WASN'T using test or dbol? The guy died from CVD.

By the way we all know (like you said) Wilt was very sexually active. Right?
Dbol at even one tab of 25mg which is NOTHING to see gains for a 8 weeks cycle is known for impotence and reduced sex drive that's why you need to take Nolvadex since Dbol is very well known to turn into estrogen and in some athletes causes gynecomastia ('bitch tits') and the side effects of Nolvadex alone is crazy like Allergic reaction, Itching or hives, swelling in your face or hands, swelling or tingling in your mouth or throat, chest tightness, trouble breathing. Chest pain, shortness of breath, or coughing up blood. Fever, chills, cough, sore throat, and body aches. Nausea, vomiting, loss of appetite, or pain in your upper stomach. New breast lumps. Loss of interest in sex or trouble having sex (in men). Rash Trouble with sleeping.

Yet you claim not only did he take Test but Dbol as well. Huhh??

It's relatively tough to overdo it on dbol. Straight test has a better chance than dbol of developing gyno, but even then, only a small percentage are dumb enough to develop it. Nolvadex is one option for an AI. I doubt Nolvadex was the AI Wilt used though. I'm curious as to why you even brought up Nolvadex, considering it wasn't popularized as an AI until the late 80s/early 90s? All the affects you listed for Nolvadex are extreme. A person has to completely overdo it on Nolvadex to experience even itchy joints.

I'd say the most obvious way to tell if a player uses PEDs is to compare his high school aesthetics to his pro aesthetics.

Really so you never went through puberty?? Everyones body changes from High School to his adult life. I know mine did.

It's relatively tough to use PEDs in high school and understand PCTs, AIs, and stacking. In the Pros, it becomes a lot easier to find a guru to help out.

WOW....Really??
Well over 21% of high school kids not only athletes but High school kids have juiced. Go on every site like bodybuilders.com bodybuilding.com and so on and so on and you can see millions of posts on how to juice what are good stacks how many CC to take and when and where to inject, how to stack what to stack etc. Hell you can even order legit gear from most sites that come right to your front door.

I would believe that 21% of students use. However, that number already suggests many kids have no idea what they're doing. The average senior (17-19) is far too young to be injecting testosterone into their growing body. Their test levels are already high and their minds haven't finished developing. How many teens do you know who are mature enough to use PEDs and understand the repercussions? If they're already using, then I doubt they understand or care about AIs and PCTs. I'm guessing many teens that try a cycle (on their own) just end up hurting themselves.

The majority of message boards are very misleading or just lack first-hand knowledge. Many posters just recycle information they read from another board, never trying anything on their own . Often times, this information is very wrong.

I'd also believe posts would use PEDs than backcourt players. Posts benefit from being heavier and also have shorter careers due to injuries. I don't want to accuse anyone. Some players physiques are good enough where I wouldn't be surprised if they did use PEDs. These include Nikola Pekovic, Wade, Iggy, Dwight, Bynum, Marc Gasol, Noah, and Bledsoe.

You cant be serious?? Marc Gasol, Noah lol

Lastly, although LeBron's a lot bigger than he was in high school, LeBron's build is completely overrated. I doubt he weighs over 240, probably around 230. He's skinny-fat, has small arms and legs.

Overrated. Dudes a beast for a ball player. Have you ever seen him in person. I have met him and Im 6 ft tall and I weight 210 lbs pretty built so I have been told and I look like a kid standing next to him. He could easily play in the NFL for his size in a lot of different positions. Dude was a man child out of high school and your telling me he isn't big??
Check the internet and look at a picture of Shaq and The "Rock" Dwayne Johnson with Barkley and then look at a pic with Shaq and Lebron when Lebron wasn't even as big as he is today. Rock is a BIG dude but he is nothing close to Lebrons size or body.

I'm judging by LMM with Gasol and Noah. Both are impressive, especially for their height. LeBron is mediocre. He's big for a basketball player, but that's like saying Isaiah Thomas is short for a basketball player. It doesn't mean a whole lot. Even with small joints and a very low body fat, 6ft, 210 is not "pretty built." It's thin. Sorry man. You're a slim dude.

Are you even looking at LeBron's body? Not his "weight" or "height," but his actual aesthetics?

You're basing your guess off a non-side-by-side comparison in which Johnson has his arms tucked BEHIND a fat Barkley and a fat Shaq? Come on, man. Are you trolling me?

Aaron W. Reed, a natural bodybuilder, is 6'7" and has an off-season weight of 260. He completely dwarfs LeBron. I hate hearing about how big LeBron is, because he just isn't. He may be on PEDs, but it doesn't show.

Aaron Reed use to be in WWE, every single one of them are juicing.

That's a massive assumption. I don't think you could back that up.

Plus Reed is more considered as a fitness model than a true bodybuilder since he has a very nice body but nothing close to competing with the real bodybuilders.

Reed has a very "natural" looking physique. Are you saying that natural bodybuilders aren't "real bodybuilders?"

That's why he is considered a fitness model more than a bodybuilder seeing how he has never competed in a major event like Arnold classis or Mr O.

You're such a troll The Arnold and Mr. O are untested competitions. Why would a natural be competing in untested shows?

Ronnie Coleman, Phil Heath, Kai Greene Jay Cutlar are considered Bodybuilders, Reed is a fitness model. Not even close and yes he's not a natural bodybuilder. He juiced his arse off like everybody else.

Why don't you think natural bodybuilders are "real bodybuilders?" Reed identifies himself as a bodybuilder (amongst fitness model and former wrestler). I have the respect to call him a bodybuilder. Reed also has a YouTube video titled "Worlds Tallest BodyBuilder," not "Worlds Tallest Fitness Model." I consider him a bodybuilder because he builds his body.

You also claimed that 260 is his off season weight which in other words means he is bulking/stacking to his competition weight which usually is in the bodybuilding world about 20 to 40 pounds over your competition weight. So lets say even at 240 competition weight of a man who is 6.7 is not really that impressive. Not even close.

I'm not sure if 260 is his stage weight or off-season weight. I read it here http://www.bigdonsboys.com/bodybuilders ... /index.htm
His stage weight may well be 260. I said off-season, just so there was no dispute. I chose Reed because he has a lot of photos, he's 6'7, 260+, and he's natural (I'm discussing if LeBron is natural or not, as well as his mediocre physique). I never said Reed was impressive, but he is. Reed is an easy comparison for LeBron's supposed 250lb physique. Reed is more lean at 260 than LeBron is at "250," so it's an easy comparison. LeBron is not 250 and probably not 240.

A true body builder like Jay Cutler or Coleman can put on a 100 lbs offseason and lose it come comp season. So he isn't really as big as you claim him to be. Maybe fit but not even big to be considered a true bodybuilder.

You're saying Cutler's and Coleman's off-season weight was near 400lbs? Really? I never claimed Reed was "big," but he's bigger than LeBron by at least 20lbs.

TonyMontana, you're a gomer, but I like you.

[twix2500]

I look at it like this, technology has advance. If the health risk is very minimum as taking any other supplement like pain relievers then there is no problem with taking PEDs. Everyone have access to PEDs just like any other nutritional supplement or any secret Kobe Bryant therapy or Dwayne Wade running on a oxygen machine, so the playing field is even and its not cheating. Remember the reason supplements like steroids became controversial is because of the unknown health concerns and the Olympics where smaller countries did not have access to such supplements, it had nothing to do with anyone disagreeing what PEDs provide to a player becoming better.

[TonyMontana]

Calm down man, why so angry?

It must have been my pre workout drink kicking in at the same time I started reading your nonsense.

We have different opinions here. Test has always been test and dbol has always been dbol. New ideas may come about, but steroids have always done the exact same thing: boost testosterone.

Says you!!
Yet reality indicates testosterone, androstenediol, androstenedione, nandrolone and stanozolol, increase muscle mass, strength, cutting/fat loss, endurance, preserving and regenerating tissue, enhancing metabolic action increasing red blood cells .

And you have no clue the difference between Test and Dbol WHATSOEVER!! There is a HUGE I mean HUGE difference between testosterone and anabolic-androgenic steroids aka dbol. Arre you kidding me??

Like I said, I don't think Wilt was too concerned with health repercussions. I think we're agreeing here that Wilt may have made some questionable decisions..

I haven't agreed with you on anything, please don't put me or include me in your nonsense. There is absolutely nothing I have agreed with you since you have no idea what your posting about.

I'm not sure why Wilt would use test and dbol .

And neither would I or anyone else for that matter.
Yet your intial post you claimed he did because he was friends or an associate of Arnold. I have never ever heard Wilt being involoved in any doping with PED and I look all over the net and I have yet to see anything linking him to PED nevertheless him stacking Test and Dbol like you said.

I wouldn't judge him if he did though, because I understand he wanted to be the best he could be.

You wouldn't jugde him?? Not only you judged him but you sat here and labeled him to not only using Test but the Dbol which happens to be the most dangerous toxic PED known to mankind. So why are you backtracking now??
Is it because I called you out on your B.S or the fact that your just posting nonsense or the fact that Wilt had heart problem and he was a heavy drinker and the main drug you claimed he was taking is know to be toxic and cause liver damage and heart attacks high blood pressure etc.

So now your backtracking your comments??

I'm not claiming Wilt used because he hung out with Arnold. I'm claiming Wilt used because he was a lean 275lb basketball player. He was strong as an ox. Wilt wanted to win.

Sure you did. Read your initial post. Also you act like Wilt was a beast of nature. Sure he was at his time in that sport, but there was a lot of other athlete's in his era that was a big as him and as strong as him. In that era in that sport the two big names were Wilt and Bill Russell.
Also every pro athlete desire and nature is to compete at his or hers highest level and win. So does that mean Bae Ruth or Pele or Hank Aron also juiced?? loll

Based on his other decisions, he would not have worried about the health repercussions.

Like what decisions. He partied and had unprotected sex with a lot of women. Every athlete has done that and is still doing that. But you claim that he took not one (test) but two forms of PED specially Dbol which again is the most toxic which is an alpha alkylated 17 compound, which is quite toxic to the liver and dangerous form of PED known to mankind by a man that is known to have heart problems and is a heavy drinker. That's not being careless that's committing suicide!!

Further, because he lifted with Arnold, Wilt would have been exposed to test itself and dbol.

LMAO............... So is that why you CLAIM Wilt was juicing??? I have friends that juice and slang etc etc. Does it mean Im doing the same since Im associated with them?? Are you kidding me. Like I said you are clueless.

Would you make the case that Wilt WASN'T using test or dbol? The guy died from CVD.

So what?? It was caused because of PED. So you have no proof, no facts, nothing to backup your nonsense other than he was friends with Arnold and he died from CVD!! Woooooooooooow.

It's relatively tough to overdo it on dbol. Straight test has a better chance than dbol of developing gyno, but even then, only a small percentage are dumb enough to develop it.

Seriously?? This statement alone proves how uneducated and clueless you are about PED or side effects of Dbol. Do you? Seriously? You don't. I mean your comment about Test has a better chance of developing Gynecomastia is clearly indication that you have no idea about either drug. LOLL or the fact that only a small percentage are dumb enough to develop it!!! You think growing "Bitch tits" is up to the user to develop?? You cant be serious?? Using Dbol develops Gynecomastia on its own because hormonal imbalance causes the problem and estrogen buildup. You have no choice about it if you take dbol and it's simply a condition which the chest of a dude/man begins to take or form breast tissues like a female shape; as is evident by the name itself as Gynecomastia .

How is it like you put it "only a small percentage are dumb enough to develop it"

One tab of 25mg of Dbol is more potent than 10cc of Test. Due to the high androgenic component
D-bol strongly converts into estrogen more than ANY PED even with a daily dosage of even one tab at 25mg, Dianabol also aromatizes a great deal, even on fairly low dosages. You are so wrong its not even funny.
You have no clue. Do you??

Nolvadex is one option for an AI. I doubt Nolvadex was the AI Wilt used though. I'm curious as to why you even brought up Nolvadex, considering it wasn't popularized as an AI until the late 80s/early 90s?

Oh okay so you googled Nolvadex and you want to pull the it wasn't popularized until the late 80s then Ill come back with Proviron (google that one) which was the same thing and it came in the market in the 60s.
And even if Wilt didn't use Nolvadez then according to you claiming he used Test and Dbol he should have bigger tits that Dolly Parton when he was ballin on the court.

I would believe that 21% of students use. However, that number already suggests many kids have no idea what they're doing. The average senior (17-19) is far too young to be injecting testosterone into their growing body. Their test levels are already high and their minds haven't finished developing. How many teens do you know who are mature enough to use PEDs and understand the repercussions? If they're already using, then I doubt they understand or care about AIs and PCTs. I'm guessing many teens that try a cycle (on their own) just end up hurting themselves.

The majority of message boards are very misleading or just lack first-hand knowledge. Many posters just recycle information they read from another board, never trying anything on their own . Often times, this information is very wrong.

LMAOOO again your clueless. Post on google lets say a tren and Test cycle?? You'll get millions of posts threads about dosage weight blood works cycle time everything you need down to the point even ordering online. My gym alone specially in the summer is packed with KIDS that are jucining. You can tell who is and who is not since guys like me that train everyday every month compared to kids that walk in the summer yolked and winter skinny as hell. Whether they understand or they don't doesn't mean they aren't using. Like I said that goes for everyone, even teens that are athletes.

I'm judging by LMM with Gasol and Noah. Both are impressive, especially for their height. LeBron is mediocre. He's big for a basketball player, Even with small joints and a very low body fat, 6ft, 210 is not "pretty built." It's thin. Sorry man. You're a slim dude.

Wow so Lebron is Mediocre and I'm slim dude then what is Shaq XL Small??
By the way what do you want to do, pull out a measuring stick to see who's is bigger??
You consider me slim?? I can call out a couple of Mods and posters that I'm friends with off this board to confirm if Im slim or not but then again at this point your opinion doesn't mean diddley to me since you have proven you are clueless about this subject or even weight training or PED.

You're basing your guess off a non-side-by-side comparison in which Johnson has his arms tucked BEHIND a fat Barkley and a fat Shaq? Come on, man. Are you trolling me?

Nah homie, your trolled yourself when you came on this thread and started posting nonsense and accusations claiming Wilt was using PED/Dbol AND Test because he was friends with Arnold and he wanted to win.
By the way there is another picture of the Rock with his arms exposed.

That's a massive assumption. I don't think you could back that up.

Assumption?? Really??
Here click on this.
https://www.google.com/#q=wwe+steroids+scandal
or this
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=2998062
or this
https://www.google.com/#q=before+and+af ... =534593373

You still think Im assuming. Oh wait you do all the assuming since NBA players hand out with Pro Bodybuilders in the 60s and 70s.

Reed has a very "natural" looking physique. Are you saying that natural bodybuilders aren't "real bodybuilders?"

No Im saying he isn't considered a bodybuilder but a fitness model and he isn't natural. You would know that if you actually had a clue what you were talking about. Obtaining the definition, size, muscle fat, cuts he has doesn't get produced "Naturally" lollll............. No human is capable of building the body he has "Naturally" but then again you would know that if you actually had a clue.

You're such a troll The Arnold and Mr. O are untested competitions. Why would a natural be competing in untested shows?

Only Troll here is you homie, a clueless one nevertheless.
You labeled him a BODYBUILDER. That's the grand stage for BODYBUILDING. WTH?? To my knowledge he has never competed in a recognized IFBB competition or Mr O etc. I mean the only thing he competed in was cage matches and

Why don't you think natural bodybuilders are "real bodybuilders?" Reed identifies himself as a bodybuilder (amongst fitness model and former wrestler). I have the respect to call him a bodybuilder. Reed also has a YouTube video titled "Worlds Tallest BodyBuilder," not "Worlds Tallest Fitness Model." I consider him a bodybuilder because he builds his body.

You can respect him all you want but he's still a fitness model not a bodybuilder
A bodybuilder’s workout usually consists of a higher amount of weight training and lower amount of repetitions. These athletes place a huge emphasis on gaining muscle mass. Therefore, they rarely indulge in cardio-vascular workouts or repetitions with lower amount of weights. Bodybuilders push their workout regime to a point where they are unable to push another set of repetition. These muscles are pushed to a point where they fail to lift any more weights. As a result, they are able to rebuild themselves and become stronger.

Fitness models, on the contrary, after establishing a comfort zone as a fit individual, move on to crafting a six pack abdominal. Their workout routine is usually shorter and of greater intensity as compared to a bodybuilder. Also, they tend to spend half their workout time in lifting weights and the other half doing cardio.

A fitness model would prefer to indulge in higher number of repetitions combined with a limited amount of weight training. On the other hand, a bodybuilder follows a regime that involves lower number of repetitions combined with more emphasis on weight training. This workout regime essentially helps a fitness model in muscle toning.

You're saying Cutler's and Coleman's off-season weight was near 400lbs? Really?.

Cutlers comp weight is usually around 260 and not 300lbs loll and yes he has gotten up to 350 360 in the offseason or injuries. And so did Coleman.

I never claimed Reed was "big," but he's bigger than LeBron by at least 20lbs. .

That's because AGAIN he isn't an athlete that has to go through what Lebron goes through night in and night out. Obviously Lebron is utilizing his body and strength more than a fitness model. Plus do you actually think the Reed can go out and ball every night at the same level that Lebron is??

TonyMontana, you're a gomer.

And your clueless and a troll homie. I really mean that. A freshmen in high school knows more about this subject than you do and I cant believe I wasted my time replying to your nonsense homie. SERIOUSLY!!

but I like you.

Sure man, whatever you say. Get off this thread for crying out loud and get back to your Pilates class or p90X workout and leave this topic to the people that actually have a clue what they are talking about.

[Doormatt]

I'm judging by LMM with Gasol and Noah. Both are impressive, especially for their height. LeBron is mediocre. He's big for a basketball player, but that's like saying Isaiah Thomas is short for a basketball player. It doesn't mean a whole lot. Even with small joints and a very low body fat, 6ft, 210 is not "pretty built." It's thin. Sorry man. You're a slim dude.

Are you even looking at LeBron's body? Not his "weight" or "height," but his actual aesthetics?

wtf are you talking about? lebrons aesthetics are faw and away the best in the nba.

[Slava]

Aestheitcs? Have you seen those Serge Ibaka pics? Or Joey Graham? Lebron is a freak for his coordination, balance, speed with his strength but he's not the far and away most aesthetic physique in the league.

[ennui]

is it just me or is bringing up serge ibaka in relation to NBA bodies the godwin's law of realgm?