Rebuilding the Hawks by replacing Horford.

[diesel50]

I'm not a Horford Hater. I like what he brings to the game. However, as I think of the way forward... I'm thinking a good draft pick and a good trade could make us a contender in a few years. The reasons I think this is because we have good bones (coaching wise) and we have strong possibilities with the players we have. Korver, Sap, and Teague are not bad.... as much crap as they receive from fans. However, you have to put talent around them. Readding Horford, readds a logjam as well as talent so how can we capitalize?

Here's one example of how we can capitalize (and there may be several)+

1. We draft BPA in the draft... My estimation is either Rodney Hood or Marcus Smart or Andrew Wiggins (he will fall).
2. We acquire Gortat in FAcy. This guy is the Center we need. He can bring low post scoring and be trained to be a better low post defender.
3. Trade Horf for Evan Turner/1st (2015). Philly does it because they can bring in Noel Slowly and then have a strong PF to be by his side. They also replace Hawes and stay out of a bidding war for Evans. They have too much young talent to have to pay for every player.

At the end of the day... we will have:

Teague/Dennis
Turner/LouWill/
Korver/Hood/DMCthealltimegreat
Sap/Brand
Gortat/Pero/Ayon

This team has great possibility going forward. However this isn't the only way to do it, it's just an example. The real question is do we move Horf to make the team better or do we stick with Horf?

[theatlfan]

Sorry, not feeling this plan at all...

I agree you go BPA in the draft, but I'm also guessing we'll end up in the 8-10 area where the consensus BPA is out of a group that includes Noah Vonleh, WCS, Zach Levine, Gary Harris, and Dario Saric. Some pundits do have Hood in there but I don't know if he's consensus yet or not - some say he's a little overrated due to the dearth of shooting in the class and leave him a little lower. Smart should go somewhere 5-7; I'd sig bet a healthy Wiggins doesn't drop past #4. Personally, I go with Vonleh out of that group although Lavine's measurements might make me to reconsider.

I do like Gortat and would have no problem picking him out go FA. For whatever reason, he has his haters, but he's average to above in a lot of areas.

Trade Horford for E Turner and a future 1st (note: PHI has already traded their 15 1st protected which MIA sent to BOS today in the Jordan Crawford deal). I'll be frank - I'll be p!ssed if DF went this direction... And absolutely confounded by PHI's position as well. Turner is a slightly above average wing whose any elite skill is rebounding. On a winning team, he's probably a decent rotation guy who opponents have to account for when he comes off the bench. No way I'd deal Horford for him unless I suspected Horford would never be healthy again.

[ATL Boy]

I don't like the Horford trade: You don't trade big for Small, and that 2015 pick for Philly will be pretty low considering how bad the East will be and how much better they will be with Horford (and possibly a healthy Noel). If we were to trade Horford, I'd want a lottery pick in THIS draft.

[Jamaaliver]

diesel, I like the idea of trading AL. (On the record, Horford is my all time favorite Hawk!)

But think we could get more for AL. We turned down a shot at trading Josh for Evan Turner last year when Josh was an expiring. Can't imagine we'd trade our best player on a great salary for him now.

Philly is pretty much tanking this season for a shot at Wiggins/Parker/Randle. That's why they traded Jrue Holliday. They simply are giving up with hopes of landing an all time great through the draft. Giving up that dream for future AL, while remaining terrible this season as Horfy recovers from surgery would benefit only us.

I am at the point where, unless we can field a top team in the next 2-3 years, we need to trade Horford soon. When his value is high again. I think we're wasting his talents on a mediocre team at a the wrong position. I wanted to trade Josh two years ago when his value was at an all time high, but we instead did nothing and let him walk. Let's not make the same mistake regarding AL.

Either make him a fixture at PF (which I believe Ferry is prepared to do) on a top 5 team, or just move on and rebuild.

[diesel50]

Sorry, not feeling this plan at all...

I do like Gortat and would have no problem picking him out go FA. For whatever reason, he has his haters, but he's average to above in a lot of areas.

Trade Horford for E Turner and a future 1st (note: PHI has already traded their 15 1st protected which MIA sent to BOS today in the Jordan Crawford deal). I'll be frank - I'll be p!ssed if DF went this direction... And absolutely confounded by PHI's position as well. Turner is a slightly above average wing whose any elite skill is rebounding. On a winning team, he's probably a decent rotation guy who opponents have to account for when he comes off the bench. No way I'd deal Horford for him unless I suspected Horford would never be healthy again.

If we're getting Gortat, it makes no sense to keep both Horf and Sap. Turner may not be the one, but if we can get him and a future first, I think it makes sense for what we have. Another of the same kind of deal would be Horf to Washington for Beal/future first. In the case of getting Beal, Washington improves their C position and they will have the cap to absorb the difference.
For us, Beal is a good shooter who can manage the SG position for us. With Gortat and Sap handling the frontcourt and Beal, Korver on the arc, we have all kind of danger for teams that face us.

[parson]

I think there's a faulty assumption being made here that we'd be able to get Horford's value in any trade. When you're the team initiating the deal, you never get value. So, first of all, we'd have to come to grips with not getting what Horford's worth.

Second, Horford fits what we're trying to do very well.

Third, Horford's a big. You don't replace them very easily. And Gortat is not someone whom I'm a big fan of, especially if we're getting him to replace Horford. I keep remembering Zaza Pachulia schooling Gortat.

To me the ONLY reason I'd want Gortat is to put him beside Horford and Millsap. Using him part-time in a rotation with DeMarre Carroll makes sense, where sometimes we're big (Gortat/Horford/Millsap) and sometimes we're fast (Horford/Millsap/Carroll). But I could only agree with Gortat if we could sign him cheaply enough to be able to sign an extra FA. If we spent all our FA money on Gortat, we'd be only marginally improved.

[diesel50]

I think there's a faulty assumption being made here that we'd be able to get Horford's value in any trade. When you're the team initiating the deal, you never get value. So, first of all, we'd have to come to grips with not getting what Horford's worth.

Second, Horford fits what we're trying to do very well.

Third, Horford's a big. You don't replace them very easily. And Gortat is not someone whom I'm a big fan of, especially if we're getting him to replace Horford. I keep remembering Zaza Pachulia schooling Gortat.

To me the ONLY reason I'd want Gortat is to put him beside Horford and Millsap. Using him part-time in a rotation with DeMarre Carroll makes sense, where sometimes we're big (Gortat/Horford/Millsap) and sometimes we're fast (Horford/Millsap/Carroll). But I could only agree with Gortat if we could sign him cheaply enough to be able to sign an extra FA. If we spent all our FA money on Gortat, we'd be only marginally improved.

I can understand that. I think next free agency will have a few bigs. With Norlens coming off IR, I think Philly will let Hawes walk so already we have Hawes and Gortat. I like Asik, but not next season. His price would be too high, although having a high pricetag and an ending contract is not always bad. I think Horford fits well with what we're trying to do to a point.... That whole Duncan Horford comparison really falls short when you consider that Duncan can score at will. Horf doesn't have a goto move. So it's iffy. But this could just as easily be a conversation about moving Millsap. I just think in the comparison of Sap to Horf, Sap has more offense than Horf. If we bring in a defensive C with Size, then to me, that might be worth trying to get a REAL 2 guard for Horf. Like Beal or Evans.

Secondly. you have to evaluate Horf's want to continue to play this way. If it were me and I asked to move to the PF and ended up tearing both of my Pecs.. in a freakish way... I prolly wouldn't want to continue with that team.

[SBM]

no

[theatlfan]

If we're getting Gortat, it makes no sense to keep both Horf and Sap. Turner may not be the one, but if we can get him and a future first, I think it makes sense for what we have. Another of the same kind of deal would be Horf to Washington for Beal/future first. In the case of getting Beal, Washington improves their C position and they will have the cap to absorb the difference.
For us, Beal is a good shooter who can manage the SG position for us. With Gortat and Sap handling the frontcourt and Beal, Korver on the arc, we have all kind of danger for teams that face us.

Unless you have a handful of superstars, I honestly think you need 3 competent bigs if you're looking to compete. Millsap/Horford/Gortat would be an excellent rotation that could cover for each other throughout the game and even play together to end games in certain match ups.
The thing about a future 1st is that they're typically protected and hardly ever worth too much in a vacuum. For instance, an NBA team shouldn't expect to draft a starter caliber player outside of the top 10 according to the value charts. Hence if you're dealing an AS like a Horford or (hopefully) a Millsap, then go ahead and shoot high in the young player return over collecting future 1sts. As far as I'm concerned, I'd prefer that Turner and his RFA contract belong to someone else - so forth giving up Horford for him. I know there were a LOT of respected GMs, including Ferry, who coveted Beal very highly when he was in the draft though. Personally, I wouldn't pull the trigger, but it's a much better deal than the PHI one.