Suns considering sending Len and Goodwin to D-League

[Revived]

Suns power forward Markieff Morris had his shortest playing stint since December 2012 when coach Jeff Hornacek sat him after eight scoreless minutes with one rebound Saturday at Detroit.

“He (Markieff) didn’t look like he had the energy and activity level we want,” said Hornacek, who also went to smaller lineups.

Suns guard Archie Goodwin was among the league rookie leaders for appearances until he was squeezed out of the rotation to make room for Barbosa four games ago.

“(Suns General Manager) Ryan (McDonough) has mentioned that at some point if we think these guys aren’t going to get a lot of time that it might be beneficial to send them down there (to Bakersfield of the D-League) to get some playing time,” Hornacek said. “We want them to practice with us as much as possible so we can help them in their growth but sometimes it’s hard to sit there and not play very much.”

Rookie center Alex Len’s season has really just begun with five consecutive appearances. He nearly fouled out in Detroit, getting five in seven minutes against the Pistons’ big front line.

“In college, how many big guys did he really go up against?” Hornacek said. “So he’s going to have to learn how to deal with those guys.”

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/ar ... #protected

I'm not a big fan of sending players to the D league cause I think Goodwin has the chance to be a star or borderline star player eventually and I think McD believes the same about Len. And no player has ever gone to the D-league and come back as a star player

Sending someone to the D league is basically like saying "At best, you will be a role player..nothing more".

On the plus side, Bakersfield is my home town and I can go watch them both play often especially cause I can get free Jam tickets

IMIT....In McDonough I trust

[Blackification]

I have no problems with sending archie to the d-league. He is young and needs to develop and get physically fit for the nba. He can do that while learning and staying in shape in the d-league if he has too much of an ego to go play there then he won't be sticking around for long anyway under this regime.

I don't agree on not sending players to the d-league just because of some title assigned to a "star" player or a "role player" maybe if some of those role players had been sent down earlier they would have developed into stars and met their potential. And he won't become a star sitting on the bench and to be honest he hasn't earned the minutes to get off of it

[RunDogGun]

Players who can showcase their talent, get the best chance of getting into starting lineups. If they have to go to the DLeague to do this, then they should. Jeremy Lin did, Danny Green did as well. Might not be "stars" exactly, but solid starters.

[LukasBMW]

I mentioned this in the other thread but:

With the Barbosa addition, Archie's playing time is going to get cut. Additionally, I think Archie has regressed a bit. I think playing in the D-leage will help his development and boost his confidence.

Sending Len to the D-league would be a waste. Len has already shown flashes of being able to bang with the NBA centers and he needs to get used to the NBA speed and NBA size. Len has already shown more then Kravtsov. I'm very comfortable giving Len 10-15 minutes a game and letting him figure it out. Worst case scenario is he fouls out in 7 minutes again and that's not THAT bad considering those are 6 HARD fouls.

[Ring_Wanted]

I'd have no problem if Archie was sent to the DL. Len, on the other hand, I think we can use him even if it's just 10 minutes per game.

[Blackification]

I'd have no problem if Archie was sent to the DL. Len, on the other hand, I think we can use him even if it's just 10 minutes per game.

Agreed his rebounding numbers have been interesting he tips a lot of them back as well. Like for the limited time he played in the lakers game they were having some problems with his length

[Revived]

I don't agree on not sending players to the d-league just because of some title assigned to a "star" player or a "role player" maybe if some of those role players had been sent down earlier they would have developed into stars and met their potential. And he won't become a star sitting on the bench and to be honest he hasn't earned the minutes to get off of it

Its true though. Usually the rookies and sophmores who get send down there don't come back and become anything special really...the best ones are probably guys like Jeremy Lin, Danny Green and Jeremy Lamb and they have looked nothing more than good role players.

Good role players aren't a bad thing to have, I just have higher hopes for Goodwin.

If Goodwin can be the first player to come from the DLeague and become an All Star or Superstar then hey, I'm all for it. I'll trust McDonough at the end with whatever he decides.

[Ring_Wanted]

Maybe it would be prudent to moderate those expectations.

[Blackification]

I don't agree on not sending players to the d-league just because of some title assigned to a "star" player or a "role player" maybe if some of those role players had been sent down earlier they would have developed into stars and met their potential. And he won't become a star sitting on the bench and to be honest he hasn't earned the minutes to get off of it

Its true though. Usually the rookies and sophmores who get send down there don't come back and become anything special really...the best ones are probably guys like Jeremy Lin, Danny Green and Jeremy Lamb and they have looked nothing more than good role players.

Good role players aren't a bad thing to have, I just have higher hopes for Goodwin.

If Goodwin can be the first player to come from the DLeague and become an All Star or Superstar then hey, I'm all for it. I'll trust McDonough at the end with whatever he decides.

I don't have any expectations from him he had a good summer league and he is too young for us to really tell im not getting my hopes up for anything like that all star, star, role player whatever as long as he is a productive member for this team i'll be happy. If it takes time at the development league to get him there so be it because he hasn't done anything to earn those minutes and its been both McD's and Horny's stance since day 1 that expectations and potential are thrown at the window when it comes to minutes. You want to play you go out there and earn it.

I'm not saying he won't be an all star or that you shouldn't expect him to i'm just saying he isn't going to get the playtime needed to develop into that player and the way our team is right now he really shouldn't.

[Maystack]

Suns power forward Markieff Morris had his shortest playing stint since December 2012 when coach Jeff Hornacek sat him after eight scoreless minutes with one rebound Saturday at Detroit.

“He (Markieff) didn’t look like he had the energy and activity level we want,” said Hornacek, who also went to smaller lineups.

Suns guard Archie Goodwin was among the league rookie leaders for appearances until he was squeezed out of the rotation to make room for Barbosa four games ago.

“(Suns General Manager) Ryan (McDonough) has mentioned that at some point if we think these guys aren’t going to get a lot of time that it might be beneficial to send them down there (to Bakersfield of the D-League) to get some playing time,” Hornacek said. “We want them to practice with us as much as possible so we can help them in their growth but sometimes it’s hard to sit there and not play very much.”

Rookie center Alex Len’s season has really just begun with five consecutive appearances. He nearly fouled out in Detroit, getting five in seven minutes against the Pistons’ big front line.

“In college, how many big guys did he really go up against?” Hornacek said. “So he’s going to have to learn how to deal with those guys.”

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/ar ... #protected

I'm not a big fan of sending players to the D league cause I think Goodwin has the chance to be a star or borderline star player eventually and I think McD believes the same about Len. And no player has ever gone to the D-league and come back as a star player

Sending someone to the D league is basically like saying "At best, you will be a role player..nothing more".

On the plus side, Bakersfield is my home town and I can go watch them both play often especially cause I can get free Jam tickets

IMIT....In McDonough I trust

So you'd rather Goodwin sit on the bench getting barely any minutes on the off chance that he becomes a star all of a sudden? The D-League is specifically for this type of situation. A young or inexperienced player is struggling in the main league and so is sent down to develop in an environment that is more suited to them.

[Revived]

I don't agree on not sending players to the d-league just because of some title assigned to a "star" player or a "role player" maybe if some of those role players had been sent down earlier they would have developed into stars and met their potential. And he won't become a star sitting on the bench and to be honest he hasn't earned the minutes to get off of it

Its true though. Usually the rookies and sophmores who get send down there don't come back and become anything special really...the best ones are probably guys like Jeremy Lin, Danny Green and Jeremy Lamb and they have looked nothing more than good role players.

Good role players aren't a bad thing to have, I just have higher hopes for Goodwin.

If Goodwin can be the first player to come from the DLeague and become an All Star or Superstar then hey, I'm all for it. I'll trust McDonough at the end with whatever he decides.

I'm not saying he won't be an all star or that you shouldn't expect him to i'm just saying he isn't going to get the playtime needed to develop into that player and the way our team is right now he really shouldn't.

And that might be okay. Look at a guy like Lance Stephenson. He might end up being an All Star this year and is no doubt a rising star in this league. And guess what? Dude was never send to the D League. He averaged 9 mins a game his first season and then 10 mins a game his 2nd season.

Here's an excerpt from an article made by Pacers fans in 2010 who wondered why the Pacers didn't send Stephenson to the D league

The team's unwillingness to use the D-League almost seems stubborn. But there still could be a psyche advantage to not sending an entitled, self proclaimed "best ever" to a minor league. While an assignment to the D-League is in no way a demotion, even Josh McRoberts admitted that it seemed like it when he made his trip. I can't imagine the same couldn't be said of Stephenson. The advantage is that he gets the floor time, but an equal disadvantage could be in his ability to grow. In the D-League, there's no one like Dahntay Jones (I'm aware the irony, just give me a second) to correct the rook when he says something foolish. And if there is a vet like Dahntay Jones (A-ha! Made it work!), is Stephenson going to listen as intently? Assuming of course, he listened to Dahntay at all.

While there are advantages to sending Stephenson to the D-League; local interest in the Mad Ants, floor time, trip dub after trip dub, I fear the team still has to deal with the rookie's maturity, so when Larry Bird says Lance needs to be a part of the Pacers, I can understand. Even though Ft. Wayne is just around the corner from Indianapolis, I don't blame the Pacers for wanting to make sure he doesn't go past the neighbor's house. And it's really not fair to us. It'd be an exciting dynamic for Pacers fans to see the team to make use of the NBDL, but at this point, I can understand why there's slight hesitation on Stephenson..

And here's Larry Bird's explanation back then for why he won't send Stephenson to the D League:

http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/2 ... lay-there/

And you should read the comments in this article...a lot of truth in it imo

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/20 ... na-pacers/

I'm with Larry Bird on this one. Whether its playing just 10 mins a night, I think being with the team and being around Hornacek and veterans like Dragic, Barbosa etc will only help Goodwin. He gets to watch and learn from them in games and practices. Its worth keeping him in PHX imo.

[RunDogGun]

So Lance Stephenson is your example of how you want a rookie developed? Well Lance only played twelve games his rookie season and only averaged a little over nine minutes. So, according to you, Goodwin is done for the season.

And then next year, we won't hear you complain when Goodwin gets the same treatment and minutes he is getting now?

And then just in time for him to become a star, he will be ready for a star contract.

[INFORMER-93]

SF88: I really appreciate the research you did. You've presented in interesting counterargument.

However, Lance Stephenson had a special case. The dude was a nightmare off the court, and the Pacers couldn't risk letting him outside of their supervision. Also, I think you're overall argument is a logic fallacy. The really special players usually are good enough to not collect dust on the bench. So there isn't a need to send them to the D-League. I don't think there is anything innate to the D League that prevents a draft pick from being special.

Also, the Houston Rockets, among others, have used the D League with noteworthy success. Terrence Jones has turned into a nice starter with room to grow, and he spend considerable time in the D League.

I agree Goodwin benefits from being around the vets, coaches, and practicing with NBA players. But I think the Suns can successfully supplement that with brief stints in the D League.

[LukasBMW]

Archie is only 19. He really should have stayed a few more years in college, but we sniped him with the 29th pick.

I'd rather have him play against D-league guys then NCAA guys.

More then anything, he needs competitive playing time. He looks indecisive at times and even scared at other times. These are both things that can get fixed with playing time and experience.

[WTFsunsFTW]

He is 19 years old. D-League is not a death sentence and not an indicator of the next decade of his life's path.

[Revived]

So Lance Stephenson is your example of how you want a rookie developed? Well Lance only played twelve games his rookie season and only averaged a little over nine minutes. So, according to you, Goodwin is done for the season.

And then next year, we won't hear you complain when Goodwin gets the same treatment and minutes he is getting now?

And then just in time for him to become a star, he will be ready for a star contract.

Uh I thought you had me ignore? Da fuq are you doing with your whole "rolling your eyes" and sarcastic comments (which I have noticed is what you usually do to posters when you know you have lost the argument).

And before you do the b**chy roll your eyes thing about "just in time for a star contract", you realize that's what we're doing with Bledsoe right?

[INFORMER-93]

Archie is only 19. He really should have stayed a few more years in college, but we sniped him with the 29th pick.

While I agree he needed more time in college in general, staying at Kentucky was not going to do him any good. He would have been riding the pine behind the Harrison twins [side point: which again further illustrates how absurd the "top 10 pick in the 2014 draft" spin was coming from the front office. That kind of ridiculous rhetoric needed to have died with the Lance Blanks regime, but I digress]. So I can understand why he left and can't blame him for it. I'm a little alarmed at how quickly some were to give McDonough a standing ovation for his 2013 draft.

[Revived]

SF88: I really appreciate the research you did. You've presented in interesting counterargument.

However, Lance Stephenson had a special case. The dude was a nightmare off the court, and the Pacers couldn't risk letting him outside of their supervision. Also, I think you're overall argument is a logic fallacy. The really special players usually are good enough to not collect dust on the bench. So there isn't a need to send them to the D-League. I don't think there is anything innate to the D League that prevents a draft pick from being special.

Also, the Houston Rockets, among others, have used the D League with noteworthy success. Terrence Jones has turned into a nice starter with room to grow, and he spend considerable time in the D League.

I agree Goodwin benefits from being around the vets, coaches, and practicing with NBA players. But I think the Suns can successfully supplement that with brief stints in the D League.

Stephenson isn't the only scenario, a guy like Bledsoe was also never send to the D league and was kept close in even when he was the 3rd and 4th string PG at times behind CP3, Billups, and Mo Williams.

And I understand Goodwin isn't as immature (atleast not that we know of) as Stephenson but I think Bird's comments of keeping him close, keeping him with their coaches and NBA players, practicing against NBA players, experiencing some adversity in the NBA all helped Lance too.

Bledsoe did spend two games in the D league but that was only for rehabilitation from his meniscus tear.

I'm not a fan of sending them to the D league but like I said earlier, if McDonough and Hornacek send Goodwin and/or Len to D league, I'll trust their decision. They drafted them so hopefully they know what's best for them.

[thamadkant]

Archie is only 19. He really should have stayed a few more years in college, but we sniped him with the 29th pick.

While I agree he needed more time in college in general, staying at Kentucky was not going to do him any good. He would have been riding the pine behind the Harrison twins [side point: which again further illustrates how absurd the "top 10 pick in the 2014 draft" spin was coming from the front office. That kind of ridiculous rhetoric needed to have died with the Lance Blanks regime, but I digress]. So I can understand why he left and can't blame him for it. I'm a little alarmed at how quickly some were to give McDonough a standing ovation for his 2013 draft.

We dont know if Goodwin would be sitting behind Harrison twins..

I think Goodwin would have the advantage of 1 year college competition and he would definitely be a better 2nd year player for Kentucky.

And McD, Hornacek and his team > internet fans in terms of scouting and projection estimation.

[INFORMER-93]

And I understand Goodwin isn't as immature (atleast not that we know of) as Stephenson but I think Bird's comments of keeping him close, keeping him with their coaches and NBA players, practicing against NBA players, experiencing some adversity in the NBA all helped Lance too.

Bledsoe did spend two games in the D league but that was only for rehabilitation from his meniscus tear.

I'm not a fan of sending them to the D league but like I said earlier, if McDonough and Hornacek send Goodwin and/or Len to D league, I'll trust their decision. They drafted them so hopefully they know what's best for them.

But do you really see brief stints in the D League as having the potential to be detrimental? I'm not talking about sending them away for months at a time. I'm thinking a time span of a little under 2 weeks won't do any harm.