Grading The Deal: Warriors Upgrade Bench, Heat Save Money, Celtics

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Grading The Deal: Warriors Upgrade Bench, Heat Save Money, Celtics 

Post#1 » by RealGM Articles » Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:41 pm

As reported, here are the details of the deal:


Miami Heat receive: Toney Douglas (from Golden State)


Boston Celtics receive: Joel Anthony, Philadelphia’s lottery-protected 2014/2015 first rounder that reverts to two second rounders if not sent by then, and a Miami second (from Miami)


Golden State Warriors receive: Jordan Crawford and MarShon Brooks (from Boston)


This is an interesting trade because, as reported, each franchise only trades pieces to one team and only receives them from the other.


For the Warriors


In many ways, this acknowledges the biggest misstep of Golden State’s offseason: signing a back-up point guard who should not be a primary ballhandler. Toney Douglas has been a solid defender and player off the ball earlier in his career, but was a terrible fit for this second unit because Kent Bazemore, Draymond Green and Harrison Barnes have trouble creating for others and usually themselves as well.


Mark Jackson should have adjusted to this reality by staggering Stephen Curry and Andre Iguodala’s minutes in order to have a creator on the floor more of the time but the dominance of the #FullSquad starting lineup made shifting either David Lee and/or Iguodala’s minutes a less desirable proposition. With those constraints, a move had to be made.


What Jordan Crawford brings is that Nate Robinson-esque quality to generate and take shots. He may also use some of the ability to create for others that was cultivated in Boston, which would be a huge benefit. The Warriors have been terrible offensively without Curry on the floor and even Crawford at his worst would make that better.


MarShon Brooks is another lottery ticket that may actually be able to contribute or net a small asset (think late second rounder) if the team decides to move him again before the deadline. Also, playing Crawford alongside Kent Bazemore should allow Bazemore to defend opposing point guards some of the time while not handling the ball, which represents Bazemore’s ideal bench role.


Would a more established and reliable point guard have been a better option? Sure. However, it seems unlikely that a superior fit like Kyle Lowry or Kirk Hinrich could have been acquired without giving up assets. Since the Warriors cannot trade picks for a while and do not have a logical piece on roster, those moves became less likely once the Bulls got under the luxury tax by trading Luol Deng. There is also an outside chance that Crawford can handle some possessions with Curry to allow him to play off the ball.


One other interesting facet of the trade is the fact that while MarShon Brooks will be an unrestricted free agent this summer, whoever has Crawford at the end of the year retains his restricted rights. While that could allow Golden State to retain him if they want, it could also be used to get a trade exception from whatever team wants to pay Crawford because the signing team loses very little by giving the Warriors that flexibility. That TPE could then be used to acquire a bench player later in the summer despite Golden State being over the salary cap. Potentially, that could mean a respectable rotation piece that keeps them under the luxury tax for another season. If he plays well, that could even be Crawford though I fully expect it to be someone else.


Grade for Golden State: B+


For the Celtics


I fully understand the desire to get at least some assets for expiring contracts like Crawford and Brooks that they were not likely to retain. However, in terms of what Boston got back they may have sold low on Crawford despite trading him at his (at least short-term) peak value.


The Philadelphia pick is protected 1-14 for each of the next two seasons and then becomes two second round picks if not conveyed by then. Considering the Sixers absolutely will not make the playoffs this year, the only way Boston gets a first is if they make it in 2014-15. That could be possible with a healthy Nerlens Noel and a quality draft but they might still be one year away. The second rounders could be decent but not extremely valuable.


Another meaningful consideration is what I said about Crawford above in regards to his RFA rights. However, Boston should expect to have cap space of their own this summer so the value of a trade exception goes down sharply and the major benefit of RFA rights comes from the ability to retain the player, which appears to not have much value to Boston.


Finally, the Celtics did take on some salary for next season in Joel Anthony though it should not preclude them from making any big moves since bigger names like Rajon Rondo, Gerald Wallace and Jeff Green are signed past next season anyway.


Grade for Boston: D+


For Miami


Most of the criticisms levied on Toney Douglas in the Golden State section do not apply to Miami since they have LeBron James and Dwyane Wade to handle the ball while other players defend opposing point guards. Douglas should fit right in there as a third point guard and utility guard in a system that makes substantially more sense with what he does well.


On top of that, the move saved Heat ownership lots of money in terms of the luxury tax, as well as a roster spot and salary for a limited value player next season. Roster spots mean more to the Heat than any other NBA franchise because they can get minimum salary players who can actually contribute.


Losing the Philadelphia potential first takes a little bit of the shine off it since any team in the East could make the postseason next year but not a ton since it feels unlikely.


Even then, Miami added a more useful piece this season and saved money while adding flexibility as well.


Grade for Miami: A-

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Re: Grading The Deal: Warriors Upgrade Bench, Heat Save Mone 

Post#2 » by IMAN5 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:32 pm

I think Douglas probably gets waived.
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Re: Grading The Deal: Warriors Upgrade Bench, Heat Save Mone 

Post#3 » by aporel18 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:39 pm

Celtics sell low? lmfao

Jordan "better than Michael" Crawford aka Jordan Crawesome was acquired by the Celtics for Jason Collins and an injured Leandro Barbosa.

Marshon Brooks was trade filler in the Pierce/Garnett trade with BKN. He never had the minutes and he could end up being a good backup, but right now he's too far from solid.

Of course, the Cs got only Joel Anthony and probably 2 future 2nd rounders, but that's more than Jason Collins and an injured Barbosa. And they still can flip Anthony's expiring contract for another asset as long as he's not traded along with another player. Pretty good return after barely a year investment.
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Re: Grading The Deal: Warriors Upgrade Bench, Heat Save Mone 

Post#4 » by aporel18 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:48 pm

aporel18 wrote:Celtics sell low? lmfao

Jordan "better than Michael" Crawford aka Jordan Crawesome was acquired by the Celtics for Jason Collins and an injured Leandro Barbosa.

Marshon Brooks was trade filler in the Pierce/Garnett trade with BKN. He never had the minutes and he could end up being a good backup, but right now he's too far from solid.

Of course, the Cs got only Joel Anthony and probably 2 future 2nd rounders, but that's more than Jason Collins and an injured Barbosa.[u] And they still can flip Anthony's expiring contract for another asset as long as he's not traded along with another player[/u]. Pretty good return after barely a year investment.


my bad, didn't know Anthony had a player option, so . It makes sense that Cs receive money. Anyway, the Celtics can afford to overpay Anthony for another while, he'll be useful as an expiring next season. Not as good as I was thinking, but still good if you look at what the Celtic gave up for Brooks and Crawford.
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Re: Grading The Deal: Warriors Upgrade Bench, Heat Save Mone 

Post#5 » by mapko81 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:36 pm

MarShon Brooks is another lottery ticket that may actually be able to contribute or net a small asset (think late second rounder) if the team decides to move him again before the deadline.


Players cannot be moved again for 2 months... wouldn't that make Brooks untradeable with the deadline about a month away?
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Re: Grading The Deal: Warriors Upgrade Bench, Heat Save Mone 

Post#6 » by ybnd » Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:28 pm

D+ for the celtics that is bologna...especially with how successful they have drafted in the second round...they dont waste picks....Brooks didnt play...Crawford filled minutes anyone could of
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Re: Grading The Deal: Warriors Upgrade Bench, Heat Save Mone 

Post#7 » by nikster » Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:03 pm

aporel18 wrote:
aporel18 wrote:Celtics sell low? lmfao

Jordan "better than Michael" Crawford aka Jordan Crawesome was acquired by the Celtics for Jason Collins and an injured Leandro Barbosa.

Marshon Brooks was trade filler in the Pierce/Garnett trade with BKN. He never had the minutes and he could end up being a good backup, but right now he's too far from solid.

Of course, the Cs got only Joel Anthony and probably 2 future 2nd rounders, but that's more than Jason Collins and an injured Barbosa.[u] And they still can flip Anthony's expiring contract for another asset as long as he's not traded along with another player[/u]. Pretty good return after barely a year investment.


my bad, didn't know Anthony had a player option, so . It makes sense that Cs receive money. Anyway, the Celtics can afford to overpay Anthony for another while, he'll be useful as an expiring next season. Not as good as I was thinking, but still good if you look at what the Celtic gave up for Brooks and Crawford.

yeah but you cant just look at what they paid for them. Crawford was having a career year for the Celtics, averaging 14 points and 6 assists per game. His value was inflated and they could have gotten more for him
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Re: Grading The Deal: Warriors Upgrade Bench, Heat Save Mone 

Post#8 » by aporel18 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:57 pm

nikster wrote:
aporel18 wrote:
aporel18 wrote:Celtics sell low? lmfao

Jordan "better than Michael" Crawford aka Jordan Crawesome was acquired by the Celtics for Jason Collins and an injured Leandro Barbosa.

Marshon Brooks was trade filler in the Pierce/Garnett trade with BKN. He never had the minutes and he could end up being a good backup, but right now he's too far from solid.

Of course, the Cs got only Joel Anthony and probably 2 future 2nd rounders, but that's more than Jason Collins and an injured Barbosa.[u] And they still can flip Anthony's expiring contract for another asset as long as he's not traded along with another player[/u]. Pretty good return after barely a year investment.


my bad, didn't know Anthony had a player option, so . It makes sense that Cs receive money. Anyway, the Celtics can afford to overpay Anthony for another while, he'll be useful as an expiring next season. Not as good as I was thinking, but still good if you look at what the Celtic gave up for Brooks and Crawford.

yeah but you cant just look at what they paid for them. Crawford was having a career year for the Celtics, averaging 14 points and 6 assists per game. His value was inflated and they could have gotten more for him


Disagree. Crawford was wisely put in a position where his strengths were shown (strangely good ballhandler, good scorer) and the kid did a great job creating offense for a rebuilding Celtics. I hope he can shine with the Warriors, but his strengths go with his flaws, and his decision making is good for a backup combo guard, not for a starter. He's still young, and wish the best for him, but Ainge didn's sell low, as Crawford's value (and Brooks' after his D-League stint) was at its highest.

And of course you have to look also at what the Cs paid for them. A year investment means injured Barbosa+JCollins = Jordan Crawford = a late second rounder + a conditional first rounder (probably 2 early second rounders). Good return.
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Re: Grading The Deal: Warriors Upgrade Bench, Heat Save Mone 

Post#9 » by brackdan70 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:53 am

You're not paying attention if you think the Cs sold low. nice try though.
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Re: Grading The Deal: Warriors Upgrade Bench, Heat Save Mone 

Post#10 » by themeccamsg » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:50 am

This was a horrible trade for the Celtics. They traded two young players with potential for two second round picks (usually amount to nothing) and an overpaid albatross contract of a useless, old, slow, canadian has-been center (who could never really play to be honest - no idea how he ever started with the Heat).
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Re: Grading The Deal: Warriors Upgrade Bench, Heat Save Mone 

Post#11 » by ybnd » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:02 am

themeccamsg wrote:This was a horrible trade for the Celtics. They traded two young players with potential for two second round picks (usually amount to nothing) and an overpaid albatross contract of a useless, old, slow, canadian has-been center (who could never really play to be honest - no idea how he ever started with the Heat).


We have to many guards number 1...number 2 we needed a center who can play d and rebound....number 3 Crawford and Brooks are never gonna be more then what they are now...if anything brooks has a chance to become something but that is a slight chance...Crawford got minutes...this is the NBA someone has to score the points....its not that hard to score points when given minutes....Oh and number 4 the celtics draft terrific in the 2nd round.... to be honest probably better then any other team in the NBA
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Re: Grading The Deal: Warriors Upgrade Bench, Heat Save Mone 

Post#12 » by themeccamsg » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:11 am

ybnd wrote:
themeccamsg wrote:This was a horrible trade for the Celtics. They traded two young players with potential for two second round picks (usually amount to nothing) and an overpaid albatross contract of a useless, old, slow, canadian has-been center (who could never really play to be honest - no idea how he ever started with the Heat).


We have to many guards number 1...number 2 we needed a center who can play d and rebound....number 3 Crawford and Brooks are never gonna be more then what they are now...if anything brooks has a chance to become something but that is a slight chance...Crawford got minutes...this is the NBA someone has to score the points....its not that hard to score points when given minutes....Oh and number 4 the celtics draft terrific in the 2nd round.... to be honest probably better then any other team in the NBA


Joel Anthony is horrible, he's not good enough to get regular minutes off the bench. Just cause you have a lot of guards doesn't mean you trade them for nothing. You try to get something of value. Especially considering the Celtics are a young rebuilding team, you would think they would be more prudent about either retaining their young assets or trading them for futures (good young players or draft picks). And past performance never dictates probability of future success. Basic statistics. If they got lucky a few times, it doesn't mean they will suddenly pull gems out of the 2nd round with those two picks. Every team gets a good 2nd rounder every once in a while.
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Re: Grading The Deal: Warriors Upgrade Bench, Heat Save Mone 

Post#13 » by aporel18 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:28 am

themeccamsg wrote:
ybnd wrote:
themeccamsg wrote:This was a horrible trade for the Celtics. They traded two young players with potential for two second round picks (usually amount to nothing) and an overpaid albatross contract of a useless, old, slow, canadian has-been center (who could never really play to be honest - no idea how he ever started with the Heat).


We have to many guards number 1...number 2 we needed a center who can play d and rebound....number 3 Crawford and Brooks are never gonna be more then what they are now...if anything brooks has a chance to become something but that is a slight chance...Crawford got minutes...this is the NBA someone has to score the points....its not that hard to score points when given minutes....Oh and number 4 the celtics draft terrific in the 2nd round.... to be honest probably better then any other team in the NBA


Joel Anthony is horrible, he's not good enough to get regular minutes off the bench. Just cause you have a lot of guards doesn't mean you trade them for nothing. You try to get something of value. Especially considering the Celtics are a young rebuilding team, you would think they would be more prudent about either retaining their young assets or trading them for futures (good young players or draft picks). And past performance never dictates probability of future success. Basic statistics. If they got lucky a few times, it doesn't mean they will suddenly pull gems out of the 2nd round with those two picks. Every team gets a good 2nd rounder every once in a while.


Agree with the Joel Anthony part, that's why Miami sent 1M alongside the picks. For the Celtics, the trade is about the 76ers pick. There's a chance that next year the Sixers are good enough for a playoff spot, then you can have a pick in the late teens. Taking on Joel Anthony is part of the price you pay for the chance to that pick.

On the other hand, Crawford is a nice player, but his value was at its highest. If he develops into something more, good for the Warriors, but if you can get a 40% chance to an extra pick so you can select Karl Towns or Dakari Johnson in 2015, you take it. Right now the Cs have Bayless who can fill the backup combo just fine behind Rondo and Bradley.
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Re: Grading The Deal: Warriors Upgrade Bench, Heat Save Mone 

Post#14 » by ybnd » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:00 am

themeccamsg wrote:
ybnd wrote:
themeccamsg wrote:This was a horrible trade for the Celtics. They traded two young players with potential for two second round picks (usually amount to nothing) and an overpaid albatross contract of a useless, old, slow, canadian has-been center (who could never really play to be honest - no idea how he ever started with the Heat).


We have to many guards number 1...number 2 we needed a center who can play d and rebound....number 3 Crawford and Brooks are never gonna be more then what they are now...if anything brooks has a chance to become something but that is a slight chance...Crawford got minutes...this is the NBA someone has to score the points....its not that hard to score points when given minutes....Oh and number 4 the celtics draft terrific in the 2nd round.... to be honest probably better then any other team in the NBA


Joel Anthony is horrible, he's not good enough to get regular minutes off the bench. Just cause you have a lot of guards doesn't mean you trade them for nothing. You try to get something of value. Especially considering the Celtics are a young rebuilding team, you would think they would be more prudent about either retaining their young assets or trading them for futures (good young players or draft picks). And past performance never dictates probability of future success. Basic statistics. If they got lucky a few times, it doesn't mean they will suddenly pull gems out of the 2nd round with those two picks. Every team gets a good 2nd rounder every once in a while.



You are highly over valuing crawford dude....ANYONE IN THE NBA CAN SCORE THE BALL....Neither crawford or brooks are worth sh*t cause they dont play any D...Crawford will probably never be a starter and neither will Brooks......And the Celtics havent gotten lucky in the 2nd round....they do thorough research and scouting on players...they make the pics count...they dont waste picks....more then likely one of these picks will end up being better then both Michael Jordan Crawford and Mar$hon Brooks
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Re: Grading The Deal: Warriors Upgrade Bench, Heat Save Mone 

Post#15 » by Lamphead » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:34 pm

You guys are really misthinking this whole thing. Boston needs deferred assets, not current assets. They will be better later, not now.

I know what you're thinking, Crawford's young! He'll fit in with the future with the Celtics! YES..but if he plays well, he has to get paid NOW! With 1st rounders, you can either stash a pick in Europe, trade it, or just pick a guy and get him at what often ends up being great value for FOUR YEARS! That's robbery by the new CBA tax standards. With 2nd rounders, you have even greater leverage to con picks into insane contracts (like Chandler Parsons) that end up being low risk, and low chance, but high reward scenarios.

You build a team like OKC by throwing a billion picks at the wall, and then seeing what you can get at a bargian rookie scale price, then piling assets on top of those rookie scale contracts since they're so cheap. I don't get why people are valuing Jordan Crawford like he would have been a real piece for the Celtics future or something. He was a known commodity, and that's probably not worth as much as 3! chances at landing a player better than him..even if they are 2nd round picks.

If they kept him and continued to play him 30 mins a game, he'd probably get what..over 5mil a year? Who the hell would pay that for a guy who should realistically never play over 20 minutes a game?
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Re: Grading The Deal: Warriors Upgrade Bench, Heat Save Mone 

Post#16 » by johnnystamos » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:20 am

Mr. Leroux uses the phrase "sell low" despite seemingly not knowing what it means. To "sell low" is to sell something, or someone, when it's value is at it's lowest, or at least a good ways off from it's highest. So what Leroux is saying is that Jordan Crawford's value at the moment is lower than it will be in the future (it clearly isn't lower than it was in the past.) Right now Crawford is averaging 13.7 and 5.7 as the starting point guard for one of the worst teams in the league. The value of such a player, as shown by this trade, is a couple of so-so picks, as long as you're willing to take on a bad contract in the deal. (I haven't seen anyone report that, for instance, Milwaukee was begging to trade their lottery pick for Crawford. He's not that good, and he's not worth all that much.) So since Leroux thinks selling Crawford at this price is "selling low," I wonder what he thinks Crawford's value would have been a month from now (or a year or two from now if he thinks the Celtics should have re-signed Crawford and tried to trade him in the future.) Does Leroux think Jordan Crawford will at some point be the starting point guard for a playoff team, averaging 17 and 7, and therefor have higher trade value thanz now? (Seems unlikely since the Celtics actual starting point guard is about to come back and Crawford would have moved to a limited-minute, limited-stat role on the bench.) I'm guessing Leroux didn't think that such things would occur and that's it's more an issue of him not knowing what the phrase "sell low" means. Either way, not the brightest analysis of the trade.

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