Suns considering sending Len and Goodwin to D-League

[INFORMER-93]

We dont know if Goodwin would be sitting behind Harrison twins..

I think Goodwin would have the advantage of 1 year college competition and he would definitely be a better 2nd year player for Kentucky.

Tell that to Alex Poythress.

And McD, Hornacek and his team > internet fans in terms of scouting and projection estimation.

I've always hated this line of reasoning. I'm sure plenty of Cleveland fans used similar reasoning when defending their front office's selection of Anthony Bennett.

None of these guys are infallible. But if you're going to play that card, then there really isn't grounds for ever disagreeing or criticizing anything the coaching staff or front office does. And if someone is comfortable with that, then that person is nothing more than a cheerleader.

[thamadkant]

McD and Hornacek and their team has EVIDENCE to judge who they pick, its part of their due diligence.
Some GMs do bank purely on size and potential.. but McD is old school type... he covers everything.

I trust him.... dont care about Cavs, I'm a suns fan and I judge about McD's proven track record.

[Revived]

And I understand Goodwin isn't as immature (atleast not that we know of) as Stephenson but I think Bird's comments of keeping him close, keeping him with their coaches and NBA players, practicing against NBA players, experiencing some adversity in the NBA all helped Lance too.

Bledsoe did spend two games in the D league but that was only for rehabilitation from his meniscus tear.

I'm not a fan of sending them to the D league but like I said earlier, if McDonough and Hornacek send Goodwin and/or Len to D league, I'll trust their decision. They drafted them so hopefully they know what's best for them.

But do you really see brief stints in the D League as having the potential to be detrimental? I'm not talking about sending them away for months at a time. I'm thinking a time span of a little under 2 weeks won't do any harm.

If we send them away, I think it will be for more than 2 weeks. If its only for 2 weeks or less, than sure I don't see the problem but I don't see that being the case barring yet another injury requiring their presence in PHX.

[Moochthemonkey]

[quote="SF88"]
And no player has ever gone to the D-league and come back as a star player
[//quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlatio ... _causation

Sending a player to a D-League doesn't magically limit their prospective values as role players. If Lance Stephenson was sent to Indian's affiliate in his rookie season, is there any legitimate reason to believe he wouldn't be as good as he is now? If Archie doesn't pan out to be more than a role player, (and assuming he puts in the proper work effort) its simply because that's just how good he turned out to be. Likewise, if he becomes an all-star, we won't look back and say "oh wow those games in the D-League really helped him reach the plateau he's at today". Point being, experience in the D-League is usually trivial for a player's future, and it's silly to think that being sent there will be such a detriment.

Secondly, the sample size is too small to draw such a conclusion. The D-League has been around since 2001. The league didn't expand to 12 teams until 2006 and it was only around this time (iirc) that teams started using it to develop players already on rookie deals. It's still largely just largely just a place for fringe NBA players, and not a true minor league system. In baseball, if a player's going through a bad stretch, recovering from an injury, or are just too raw for the premier level they are sent to a minor league. I expect more future lottery picks with good potential, who's minutes are buried by rotational players, to see more time in the d-league within the next decade.

Jeremy Lamb's looking pretty good right now...putting up about the same numbers Lance Stephenson was in his 'breakout year' (and James Harden in his rookie year).

[INFORMER-93]

I trust him.... dont care about Cavs, I'm a suns fan and I judge about McD's proven track record.

The proven track record of a first year GM?

[Ring_Wanted]

...I don't really see where is the harm in sending Archie to the DL. He has played in more than 30 NBA games already. I'm sure he's eager to play a whole game, not just 8-12 minutes by design. I doubt the experience traumatized him or made him unable to reach his potential, whatever it may be.

[thamadkant]

I trust him.... dont care about Cavs, I'm a suns fan and I judge about McD's proven track record.

The proven track record of a first year GM?

Yes..
Look at his trades..
He traded former good players for apparently scrubs from other teams and look how well those scrubs are playing now...and he also managed to get Bledsoe for role players.

That tells me..
- he doesn't just buy into the hype, he studies players and make decision based on his and his scouts information. He not just hype but deep information and he watches tapes...

He climbed the corporate ladder in Boston because of his ability to analyse videos .

In regards to Goodwin...
Goodwin dropped a lot but he has the tools to be a good player, his weaknesses are fixable because he is still maturing and learning the game, he is a teenager... McD and Hornacek liked him and I do to so I will be patient.

In regards to Len...
He was scouted by McD since he was a teen ager and had him flagged as a target when he was with Boston.


Simply... I will trust a 30 something GM over an internet fan...
He is a tremendously young GM for a reason and that's because he is a gifted talent evaluator.

[Ring_Wanted]

For what it's worth, being great at trades doesn't mean you are great at drafting, and viceversa.

[INFORMER-93]

1UPZ, I'm not asking you to trust me nor am I saying you shouldn't have confidence in McDonough.

My only point with Goodwin is that I think they oversold how of a prospect he is. That doesn't mean I'm ready to give up on him or that he isn't going to be a good player.

I didn't say anything disparaging about Len.

I've followed the NBA for a long time, and I've seen even the smartest NBA execs mess up and make bad decisions. So as a knowledgeable fan, I've always valued reaching my own conclusions, being able to analyze things for myself, and not putting blind faith in anyone. I'll never be a fan that just says "person x said or did this so it must be good" especially if I observe something that suggests something to the contrary. I'm not saying you need to be like me, just explaining where I'm coming from.

[thamadkant]

For what it's worth, being great at trades doesn't mean you are great at drafting, and viceversa.

No, but it shows he knows what he's doing in terms of finding players who has talent which other GMs overlooked.
So it tells me McD maximises his opportunities and won't draft without deep study.

[Revived]

I trust him.... dont care about Cavs, I'm a suns fan and I judge about McD's proven track record.

The proven track record of a first year GM?

I've followed the NBA for a long time, and I've seen even the smartest NBA execs mess up and make bad decisions. So as a knowledgeable fan, I've always valued reaching my own conclusions, being able to analyze things for myself, and not putting blind faith in anyone. I'll never be a fan that just says "person x said or did this so it must be good" especially if I observe something that suggests something to the contrary. I'm not saying you need to be like me, just explaining where I'm coming from.

+1. And I agree completely with you in that McD does not have a proven track record lol he's a rookie GM. We aren't even halfway through the season to name him proven or unproven. He's made moves that I think are and will be right moves but that doesn't mean they absolutely will be and that he's proven.

[thamadkant]

I've followed the NBA for over 20 years too... And I'm only 33.
I've seen enough GMs mess up drafting and I've seen enough brilliance from other GMs to make some sort logic and make a reasonable judgment.


Suns were considered bottom 3 team in terms of future... A year later the Suns are considered one of the bright future teams... And only person that was changed from the FO was Blanks getting replaced by McD.
That's a damn great start for a young GM.
Look at the assets and read on McD's talents as a scout.

Regarding Goodwin, he moves so easily and gets inside the paint with ease..
He has shown glimpses of being a pest defensively, needs to improve his awareness and he could bother almost anyone from PGs to smaller SFs.
His shot is what's preventing him from getting big minutes and at 19 years old, I absolutely think he can improve to the very least a decent shooter...

I look at Lance Stephenson and I see Goodwin being superior to him in terms of physical abilities...
Lance is 23 and Goodwin is 19...

Goodwin already has shown he is quick to the ball to grab rebounds... Give him point guard and play making coaching and he could very least be a penetrate and dish guy in terms of play making and get 3-4 assists off that.
He is quick and accelerates at an elite level... He picks a pass from passing lane and watch him accelerate from mid court to the ring in 3-4 seconds... He is very aggressive and has a knack in squeezing in traffic... His weakness there is finishing with a big defender in front... He just need to realise he needs to go up hard and try to draw the foul and he would be shooting FTs 50% of the time he penetrates.


I see the potential... I saw the glimpses... He just needs to learn the game.

[INFORMER-93]

I look at Lance Stephenson and I see Goodwin being superior to him in terms of physical abilities...
Lance is 23 and Goodwin is 19...

Physical abilities? I don't know. Lance Stephenson has strength, quickness, and leaping ability. I'm not sure how Archie Goodwin is physically superior. Goodwin is faster, but not to the point where I would call him physically superior.

[NapoleonII]

I look at Lance Stephenson and I see Goodwin being superior to him in terms of physical abilities...
Lance is 23 and Goodwin is 19...

Physical abilities? I don't know. Lance Stephenson has strength, quickness, and leaping ability. I'm not sure how Archie Goodwin is physically superior. Goodwin is faster, but not to the point where I would call him physically superior.

Is Stephenson that great of an athlete? I've been watching him for a few games because he's on my fantasy squad and he's quick enough, but he's not blowing by defenders or leaping over anyone. He's got a good nose for the ball, is strong for a SG, but that's about it.

I love Lance Stephenson as a 3rd option - solid shooter, great playmaker, good defender. I'd be ecstatic if Goodwin looks anything like him at 23. But I think Goodwin at 19 has a very good chance of being a better athlete than Stephenson. I see him as a Wade-lite type player, maybe like a Sprewell, which would be very, very good for the Suns.

Stephenson is a great all-around player, but he's never going to be a 22-25ppg scorer. Goodwin has that potential (potential!) at 19.

[INFORMER-93]

I wasn't calling Stephenson a great athlete, and I'm not sure how your description of Stephenson differs from anything I said. I didn't characterize any of Stephenson's physical capabilities as elite. And I even said Goodwin is faster. So I'm not sure what got lost in translation.

And I'll just say that I don't see Goodwin ever being a 22-25 ppg scorer. We'll agree to disagree there.

[NapoleonII]

I wasn't calling Stephenson a great athlete, and I'm not sure how your description of Stephenson differs from anything I said. I didn't characterize any of Stephenson's physical capabilities as elite. And I even said Goodwin is faster. So I'm not sure what got lost in translation.

And I'll just say that I don't see Goodwin ever being a 22-25 ppg scorer. We'll agree to disagree there.

Sorry, I guess I read too much into it. It seemed to me that you were saying Stephenson is a better athlete than Goodwin, and Goodwin to me has all the physical tools he needs to be an explosive, athletic force at the 2 position after his growing pains (the kid is 19), so I assumed you thought Stephenson was a great athlete, which I don't believe he is. He's crafty and has great handles, which he uses to great effectiveness.

[sunsbum]

Worst reasoning ever not to send someone down to the D league.

[jcsunsfan]

Worst reasoning ever not to send someone down to the D league.

Agreed. This league is too ----------- touchy feely. The kids need minutes. They need to develop a few skills. The D-league is a great place to work through injuries, develop stamina, and work on specific aspects of the game. It should be treated like the minors in baseball. Its especially important for players without summer league experience like Len. Look what last year's summer league did for Plumlee.