OT: PED's IN THE NBA

[TonyMontana]

In my opinion, you're a slim dude. You probably would feel like a kid next to anyone who's 20+lbs bigger than you. I don't intend this or any of my comments as insults, but that's my opinion.

damn, you must be a beast to think thats slim. you should let us all know what your workout and diet is so we can become adonis men like you.

No ****!! And all this time I thought I was getting big. I think Im going to go to a full scoop of Creatine instead of half a scoop. Oh and Ill take 4 flinestone gummy vitamins instead of the two I usually take.
BEAST MODE starting tomorrow mangs!! FTW!!

[Doormatt]

i believe

[ennui]

goddamn this got gay fast

[Atlas]

In my opinion, you're a slim dude. You probably would feel like a kid next to anyone who's 20+lbs bigger than you. I don't intend this or any of my comments as insults, but that's my opinion.

damn, you must be a beast to think thats slim. you should let us all know what your workout and diet is so we can become adonis men like you.

No ****!! And all this time I thought I was getting big. I think Im going to go to a full scoop of Creatine instead of half a scoop. Oh and Ill take 4 flinestone gummy vitamins instead of the two I usually take.
BEAST MODE starting tomorrow mangs!! FTW!!

Creatine won't help you increase size directly. Creatine only helps with stored energy inside the muscles, which may or may not allow someone to get in more reps per set. Creatine only replaces a phosphate in the muscles, allowing ADP to become ATP once again. Many studies show that about 5g/day will get the job done. Is your half-scoop at least 5g? If so, adding another half-scoop won't do much, maybe anything.

[Atlas]

Anything that artificially modifies your endocrine system can be classified as a steroid, it doesn't necessarily need to be a testosterone enhancer even though most steroids do have that effect. Even EPO, methamphetamine, diuretics and some sedatives can be given the same classification.

Its not hard to develop side effects from steroid usage, especially at younger ages where high school level baseball players are using testosterone from road side clinics and unlicensed practitioners prescribing growth hormones for as little as $25 per prescription.

I've always understood that in order to be considered a steroid, the substance has to increase testosterone. I can't name one steroid that doesn't increase testosterone.

I agree that many younger-age players don't understand how to use safely. However, in my opinion, gyno is a tough side-affect to develop. In general, I think a lot has to go wrong for gyno to occur.

I haven't heard about unlicensed practitioners giving prescriptions. Why would a pharmacy fill an unlicensed prescription? Do the pharmacies get some kick-back?

Dude there are people who got gyno from beauty drugs like finasteride that only increase your test by like 15% as a side effect. For a young 17-19 year old kid that hasn't developed a mature hormonal system it doesn't take much for an anabolic steroid to cause hormonal imbalances and in worst case scenarios completely shut down natural hormonal production, these people start developing tits, lose vocal pitch, women develop acne, facial hair and some other horrible side effects from using steroids and end up being dependent on testosterone/estrogen therapy for the rest of their lives.

THere's a reason experimenting with PEDs is banned from pro sports and its not just due to lack of scientific understanding regarding them. If there were functional genetic based studies done on some of these drugs, I'm pretty sure you could disprove close to 70% of biased clinical studies the pharmacy companies conducted in the 90s when they got FDA approval for the drugs.

Like I've said, I completely agree teens as a whole shouldn't be using. Some can get away with it, but I think they're the minority. I still think it takes some pretty bad things to get gyno (and a lot of the other side-effects mentioned.) I have yet to see anyone develop gyno that was using an AI or PCT. I have seen people skip on AIs and PCTs completely and still not get gyno. Further, as much as message board "experts" claim, I don't think it's safe to come on and off of cycles completely. Many users would agree that blast-and-cruising is the safest safest strategy, mentally and physically. It's tougher to spike the estrogen-to-test ratio if someone is always on test. Mentally, it's often depressing to see oneself become bigger than shrink back down. Blast-and-cruising gets around this mental hurdle.

The times I see gyno consistently occur are teens who don't understand the drug and don't run AIs or PCTs. The teen is also cycling on and then completely off. I would consider a teen not using AIs or PCTs on a cycle to be a series of "pretty bad things." I think most elite teen athletes that are smart but don't have proper knowledge of using will wait until college or the pros. This is why I brought up comparing high school aesthetics to pro aesthetics. Dwight Howard is one of my favorite examples.

[H00PDREAMS]

This guy shocked the world. If he did so today some of you here would say "He must been on the juice."

[Atlas]

This guy shocked the world. If he did so today some of you here would say "He must been on the juice."

Hahaha, but he was on juice...

[TonyMontana]

For a young 17-19 year old kid that hasn't developed a mature hormonal system it doesn't take much for an anabolic steroid to cause hormonal imbalances and in worst case scenarios completely shut down natural hormonal production.

Absolutely correct. Your body in teens produces enough test till you get into your late 20s. Anytime you juice your causing your body to shut down its natural production and in some cases shutting it down completely.

these people start developing tits,

Not all roids, certain ones but the biggest one known to mankind is Dbol and that's the one according to this kat Wilt Chamberlin was using Oh and while he was stacking it with Testosterone.
I posted a link on the bottom and addressed this comment.

lose vocal pitch, women develop acne, facial hair and some other horrible side effects from using steroids and end up being dependent on testosterone/estrogen therapy for the rest of their lives.

Different roids can cause different side effects specially the amount of doses you take. However, every time you use steroid your risking more chances you have of getting more side effects.

For example,
Decca is highly know to make you limp (you know where) that's why juice heads call it decca ****.
Then you have test which comes in many many different form for example Test enanthate, Tets Cyponate, Test propionate etc etc. These can be used alone, but the best results are if you stack them for example with Tren, Winstrol, Decca and so on and so on. The test keeps the hormone balanced since for example Tren shuts down your naturally producing testosterone completely.

Then there is the famous Dbol Dianabol. The same PED that this joker that is clueless about PED associated Wilt Chamberlin with is by far the most toxic, dangerous PED known to mankind has by far the worst side effects you can even imagine even at the lowest dosage possible. Taking this drug will defiantly defiantly cause Gynecomastia. There is no way around it. Specially specially specially with Dbol.

I copied and pasted this section.

Anabolic/androgenic steroids, made popular by bodybuilders, professional athletes and the local muscle guys at your gym, are basically synthetic male testosterone. The anabolic component deals with muscle and skeletal tissue growth. The androgenic component deals with secondary male sex traits such as hair growth, sex drive and sperm health. Anabolic/androgenic steroids can also convert a third component, an estrogenic component, which regulates numerous functions in both male and female. Anabolics differ from other steroids such as corticosteroids, which are used to treat inflammation in diseases. The body produces corticosteroids naturally in the cortex region of the adrenal gland, though the actual medications are manufactured synthetically. Corticosteroids are often used to battle asthma and extreme cases of allergies. Though anabolic steroids can also have legitimate medical use, they are often acquired illegally and used in massive, uncontrolled doses for maximum muscle gain.

THere's a reason experimenting with PEDs is banned from pro sports and its not just due to lack of scientific understanding regarding them. If there were functional genetic based studies done on some of these drugs, I'm pretty sure you could disprove close to 70% of biased clinical studies the pharmacy companies conducted in the 90s when they got FDA approval for the drugs.

I partially agree with you on this since a lot of claims against roids are fabricated and myths yet a lot of it is true as well. I believe pro sports banned this PEDs because its basically considered cheating which is true but as someone that is extremely knowledgeable and educated on this subject I can tell you that if it is used correctly for example blood works cycles proper dosage and consulting a physician and under a physicians care it will work amazingly and do wonders.

By the way. Stop wasting your time responding to this kat. He is cluelss about this subject. By his first post which he claimed Wilt was on Tets ANDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD Dbol because he was friends with Arnold was the start of his ignorance.

Then when I called him out on his posts he started copy and pasting bits and pieces from the net and explaining it to what he thought sounded good and that's how he came up with this post.

It's relatively tough to overdo it on dbol. Straight test has a better chance than dbol of developing gyno, but even then, only a small percentage are dumb enough to develop it.

Ill break down his comments just so you can see how OFF and clueless this comment alone was.

It's relatively tough to overdo it on dbol.

Here is one link. Take the time and read how toxic and potent this drug is. Seriously.
Read and see how no matter how low or high of a dosage you take IT WILL DEFINANTLY cause Gynecomastia. Which he claimed that "its relatively though to do with Dbol" There is nooooooooo way around it, if you use Dbol it will cause "Gyno"

http://www.steroiduse.org/dianabol-steroid.html

Straight test has a better chance than dbol of developing gyno,

And THIS!!!! LMAO
He is clueless since even a kid in high school (roids 101) knows that taking Dbol Dianabol WILL develop "gyno"
No if and buts about it will cause "Gyno" A 100% even at the smallest dosage of 25mgs tab for just one week to 2 weeks more than ANY TYPE OF TEST out on the market. a 100%

Here is the proof.
This is a link for testosterone propionate which is by far the most durable and stackable form of testosterone in the market to stack with other juices like Tren, Wini, Decca, Sest 250, etc.
Read all the way down and then see the section that says side effects. You notice it doesn't say anything about "gyno" WHAT SO EVER.

http://www.steroiduse.org/testosterone-propionate.html

Then read this link about Dbol which again he claims Wilt used which the entire world knows Wilt had heart problems and was a heavy drinker and would've basically committed suicide if he took Dbol.

Look at the longggg list of side effects of Dbol. Go to the bottom of the page and read the third paragraph. lollll

http://www.steroiduse.org/dianabol-steroid.html

but even then, only a small percentage are dumb enough to develop it.

And then ignorance just blew up right here!! loll

He claims that development of "Gyno" is actually up to the users. Its their choice whether or not he is smart enough to develop it. WTF!! Like you actually have a choice!! You can clearly see in the link about Dbol that if you use dbol you body will produce "Gyno".

Like I said this kat is clueless. I stop wasting my time answering his garbage nonsense.

[Kilroy]

This one gets me... If there is no testing for PEDs, it doesn't matter who's using them.

When they start testing, then we'll see... Until then, I just don't think analyzing who 'may be on PEDs' as being a very productive endeavor...

Anybody can google the effects of a given substance... Until you have a verified name of an abuser, that information isn't very interesting...

[TonyMontana]

Anybody can google the effects of a given substance... Until you have a verified name of an abuser, that information isn't very interesting...

Exactly.

I tried biting my tounge but this kat just wouldn't go away. Not only did he not go away but then he is questioning my knowledge as well as Slava which I highly respect when it comes to this subject while he actually think that he does.

Let me break it down once and for all how clueless and redicoulous and off this kat Atlas is.


His initial post that I replied to and since then I have provided comments and links about how totally off his comments accusation misleading they are.

It's fairly safe to say that Wilt was at least using test and dbol. Supposedly Wilt lifted with Arnold consistently and I doubt Wilt was worried about health repercussions, considering his sexual history. Players have always used PEDs since near the beginning.

He claims Wilt used not only used testosterone but he also stacked it with Dbol Dianabol which is by far the most toxic and potent drug on the market known to mankind and one of its biggest side effects is related to the heart, which anyone with a bit of common sense or knowledge about PED knows that!!


http://www.steroidabuse.com/Dianabol-Side-Effects.html

Standard Dianabol Side-Effects
There are five Dianabol side-effects that are quite possible if caution is not applied. These five effects are five of the most common anabolic steroidal side-effects, but rest assured, each one is completely avoidable for the healthy adult male. That last little part of the last sentence read it again and beat these words in your head “healthy adult male.” If you are not a healthy adult male you have no business touching the first Dbol pill, as you will only be asking for trouble. The five Dianabol side-effects of notable worth include:
• Gynecomastia
• High Blood Pressure
• High LDL Cholesterol
• Low HDL Cholesterol
• Excess Water Retention

While these are possible side-effects, each one is avoidable, but first let’s get the obvious out of the way. If you suffer from high blood pressure, or high cholesterol, do not touch Dianabol. Again, this is a steroid for healthy adult men, and as it pertains to blood pressure, Dbol is notorious for increasing it if you don’t keep an eye on your dose, and if you already suffer you are only begging for trouble.

So two mistake and clueless comments made by this kat right off the bat which claims to be very knowledgeable about PED. And both me and Slava have addressed about "gyno" and "Heart problems" which Wilt was known to have a big problem with.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/25530 ... -dianabol/

Cardiovasular Risks

Dianabol and other anabolic steroids can cause dangerous cardiovascular risks. The steroid increases low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, which known as the LDL or "bad" cholesterol, and decreases high-density lipoprotein cholesterol, which is referred to as HDL or "good" cholesterol, reports the National Institute on Drug Abuse. Dianabol can also cause high blood pressure. These changes to cholesterol and blood pressure increase the risk of heart attack and other heart diseases. Enlargement of the left ventricle of the heart has also been linked to steroid abuse.

I'm not sure why Wilt would use test and dbol. I wouldn't judge him if he did though, because I understand he wanted to be the best he could be.

I'm not claiming Wilt used because he hung out with Arnold. I'm claiming Wilt used because he was a lean 275lb basketball player. He was strong as an ox. [color=#FF0040]Wilt wanted to win.[/color] Based on his other decisions, he would not have worried about the health repercussions. Further, because he lifted with Arnold, Wilt would have been exposed to test itself and dbol. Would you make the case that Wilt WASN'T using test or dbol? The guy died from CVD.

Ya Im not going to claim but Im going to SHOW YOU your clueless about PED and your false claims and accusations!!

So now lets address his claim that Wilt was doping because he was friends with Arnold.

Now every true Laker fan that knows the history of the Lakers Org and Wilt knows that first of all Wilt had a lot of heart issues and he also retired in 1973 and if you are a true fan of bodybuilding then you should know or at least have a clue about Arnold and his history. So Ill address that in these next quotes and I will provide links as well.

For starters Wilt was known to have heart problems. And there was actually rumors that he had a heart attack back in the early sixties.

http://static.espn.go.com/nba/news/1999 ... 10895.html

it is possible he suffered from ventricular arrhythmia, an irregular beat in the heart's lower chamber, the body's main blood pump.

"It causes very chaotic electrical activity. The heart cannot pump effectively at all," Moriguchi said. "At that point, you pass out and you die unless something is quickly done about it."

Without medical attention, patients die within six minutes.

Chamberlain's health became an issue in the 1960s, when his former coach with the then-San Francisco Warriors was quoted as saying Chamberlain might have had a heart attack before the 1964 season. Chamberlain denied it.

So in 1960 Wilt did in fact have a heart attack and was under the care of a physician as you can see on the link above by espn.
Now every Laker fan knows that Wilt retired from the NBA in what year??? 1973

http://www.nba.com/history/wilt_appreciation.html

After he retired from the NBA in 1973

Now....................... Any bodybuilding fan that knows the history of bodybuilding who trains who follows Mr Olympia Arnold classic like this Kat Atlas claims he does knows that Arnold Schwarzenegger came to the U.S as 21 year old kid in 1968 and didn't become famous or even popular until 1977 because of a documentary called Pumping Iron which was about the world of bodybuilding.
But by then Wilt had retired from basketball in 1973 so he wasn't even competitive like this Kat Atlas claims. and he didn't even know who Arnold was!! Since nobody in the world knew who Arnold was until 1977.


http://www.schwarzenegger.com/bio

he emigrated to America in 1968 and went on to win five Mr. Universe titles and seven Mr. Olympia titles before retiring to dedicate himself to acting. Later, he would go on to earn a college degree from the University of Wisconsin and proudly became a U.S. citizen.

Schwarzenegger, who worked under the pseudonym Arnold Strong in his first feature, Hercules in New York, quickly made a name for himself in Hollywood. In 1977,

SO NOW!!

Is it fair enough to say that this so called PED genius/crossfit/nutiritionist/Laker poster Atlas is clueless not only about Roids and its effects and side effects. Or better yet the Lakers or Wilt Chamberlins history and on top of it has no clue about Arnolds history??

The gibberish nonsense garbage he wrote and claims he made about Wilt using Test and Dbol because he was friends or lifted weights with Arnold is ridiculous fabricated and garbage???

You be the judge of that!!

Me and Slava have already addressed all his false claims yet he still insists that he knows more than me about this subject and then THIS!!!!! LMAOOO!!!

Go away!!!
Your are clearly clueless about this subject and you keep backtracking and changing your comments and back peddling. I have already wasted enough of my time with your nonesense.

To be straight, I think you believed you were knowledgeable in this discussion. However, the discussion reached a point where you realized you couldn't defend most (if not all) of your opinions. It's completely fine if you can't defend your original ideas. However, I think you should at least admit when you're in the wrong and change your opinions for the better. Instead, you've vented your frustrations directly at me as a person.

Like I said. Clueless!!

Lets see you pull a rabbit out of your you know what responding to everything I posted!! Cant wait.
Better yet to save the embarrassment, since you just joined this board a few days ago. Just delete this account and comeback with a different one and don't ever ever ever EVER post on threads like this again.

[Gek]

I think basketball is, by far, the most natural of human sports. It's physical and demanding, but your body can take it, especially with training the proper muscle groups for supporting major hot spots now a days (unless you're physiologically flawed like bynum). Because it's more natural for us to run, jump, work in small groups... it makes it easier for the more physically gifted specimens to thrive and flourish. combine that with work ethic, following doctors/therapists orders to the t, and new-age medicine and you can get kobe. I think there is a better chance of him getting experimental stem cell-esque injections than PEDs.

[TonyMontana]

I think basketball is, by far, the most natural of human sports. It's physical and demanding, but your body can take it, especially with training the proper muscle groups for supporting major hot spots now a days (unless you're physiologically flawed like bynum). Because it's more natural for us to run, jump, work in small groups... it makes it easier for the more physically gifted specimens to thrive and flourish.

I agree. Very rarely do basketball players use PED since the sport is more about agility, endurance, etc types of skills necessary compared to football and baseball. This is where certain types of roids serves different purposes like strength, mass, speed etc.

This is a very good article written by ESPN about PED in the NBA and there testing methods and punishment etc.
A good read if your curious about PED in the NBA.

NBA players who have been suspended for PED in the NBA.


•2000: Don MacLean, for “steroids”
•2001: Matt Geiger, for “steroids”
•2002: Soumaila Samake, for the anabolic steroid nandrolone
•2007: Lindsey Hunter, for the stimulant phentermine
•2008: Darius Miles, for the stimulant phentermine
•2009: Rashard Lewis, for the steroid DHEA
•2011: O.J. Mayo, for the steroid DHEA

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... ug-testing

and new-age medicine and you can get kobe. I think there is a better chance of him getting experimental stem cell-esque injections than PEDs.

Let me be very clear about the comment Im going to be making about Kobe. I personally think that when Kobe visited Germany to repair his knee he was and is being admistered HGH. Now Im sure some people will falme about it and some wont but here let me explain.

For starters Kobes age, the injury he went through and the speed of his recovery and the threatment he received as we all know was called PRP. platelet-rich plasma therapy. Basically the procedure begins with drawing 2 to 3 tablespoons of the athletes blood and placing it in a centrifuge for about 10 to 15 minutes. The spinning separates the blood into three components which is basically red blood cells plasma and a mix of platelets and white blood cells. The platelets and white blood cells are then injected into the injured area.

BUT!!! and here is an article addressing the BUT and its in the red.

The World Anti-Doping Agency and U.S. Anti-Doping Agency debated in recent years whether PRP led to unfair athletic enhancement, but both entities determined last year it was fair for Olympic competition if it wasn't mixed with human-growth hormone (HGH) or insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1).

"What we're hearing from our athletes is that it's not demonstrated that it enhances performance at all," said Travis Tygart, chief executive of USADA. "If you get PRP with HGH added to it, yeah, no question, but that is prohibited. As the [PRP] technique started gaining some traction over the last two or three years in athlete circles and among doctors that treat athletes, those doing it without HGH and IGF-1 weren't seeing the same benefits. There wasn't enough evidence that PRP by itself was proving enough enhancement to make it unfair."

So since NBA only does urine testing and if hGH in urine is found it will usually be extremely small quantities which is normally less than 1% than that found.

Now the NBA Strong player unions have attempted and succeeded into banning blood tests on the grounds they are too invasive then that makes the detection is very hard since NBA is only allowed to do urine and not blood test. So this is where I believe that Kobe/Bynum/Oden/Roy and other players are using the PRP treatment which includes concentrate of HGH.

Again I am not saying that Kobe did infact use HGH but from what I know about this treatment and as you can see I provided details about the effectiveness of this treatment positive healing and speedy recovery will only apply with or without HGH being mixed in the treatment.

[Gek]

I think basketball is, by far, the most natural of human sports. It's physical and demanding, but your body can take it, especially with training the proper muscle groups for supporting major hot spots now a days (unless you're physiologically flawed like bynum). Because it's more natural for us to run, jump, work in small groups... it makes it easier for the more physically gifted specimens to thrive and flourish.

I agree. Very rarely do basketball players use PED since the sport is more about agility, endurance, etc types of skills necessary compared to football and baseball. This is where certain types of roids serves different purposes like strength, mass, speed etc.

This is a very good article written by ESPN about PED in the NBA and there testing methods and punishment etc.
A good read if your curious about PED in the NBA.

NBA players who have been suspended for PED in the NBA.


•2000: Don MacLean, for “steroids”
•2001: Matt Geiger, for “steroids”
•2002: Soumaila Samake, for the anabolic steroid nandrolone
•2007: Lindsey Hunter, for the stimulant phentermine
•2008: Darius Miles, for the stimulant phentermine
•2009: Rashard Lewis, for the steroid DHEA
•2011: O.J. Mayo, for the steroid DHEA

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... ug-testing

and new-age medicine and you can get kobe. I think there is a better chance of him getting experimental stem cell-esque injections than PEDs.

Let me be very clear about the comment Im going to be making about Kobe. I personally think that when Kobe visited Germany to repair his knee he was and is being admistered HGH. Now Im sure some people will falme about it and some wont but here let me explain.

For starters Kobes age, the injury he went through and the speed of his recovery and the threatment he received as we all know was called PRP. platelet-rich plasma therapy. Basically the procedure begins with drawing 2 to 3 tablespoons of the athletes blood and placing it in a centrifuge for about 10 to 15 minutes. The spinning separates the blood into three components which is basically red blood cells plasma and a mix of platelets and white blood cells. The platelets and white blood cells are then injected into the injured area.

BUT!!! and here is an article addressing the BUT and its in the red.

The World Anti-Doping Agency and U.S. Anti-Doping Agency debated in recent years whether PRP led to unfair athletic enhancement, but both entities determined last year it was fair for Olympic competition if it wasn't mixed with human-growth hormone (HGH) or insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1).

"What we're hearing from our athletes is that it's not demonstrated that it enhances performance at all," said Travis Tygart, chief executive of USADA. "If you get PRP with HGH added to it, yeah, no question, but that is prohibited. As the [PRP] technique started gaining some traction over the last two or three years in athlete circles and among doctors that treat athletes, those doing it without HGH and IGF-1 weren't seeing the same benefits. There wasn't enough evidence that PRP by itself was proving enough enhancement to make it unfair."

So since NBA only does urine testing and if hGH in urine is found it will usually be extremely small quantities which is normally less than 1% than that found.

Now the NBA Strong player unions have attempted and succeeded into banning blood tests on the grounds they are too invasive then that makes the detection is very hard since NBA is only allowed to do urine and not blood test. So this is where I believe that Kobe/Bynum/Oden/Roy and other players are using the PRP treatment which includes concentrate of HGH.

Again I am not saying that Kobe did infact use HGH but from what I know about this treatment and as you can see I provided details about the effectiveness of this treatment positive healing and speedy recovery will only apply with or without HGH being mixed in the treatment.

This is a well put together post. Whatever happened to yearly awards? Monthly awards?

[Atlas]

Now....................... Any bodybuilding fan that knows the history of bodybuilding who trains who follows Mr Olympia Arnold classic like this Kat Atlas claims he does knows that Arnold Schwarzenegger came to the U.S as 21 year old kid in 1968 and didn't become famous or even popular until 1977 because of a documentary called Pumping Iron which was about the world of bodybuilding.
But by then Wilt had retired from basketball in 1973 so he wasn't even competitive like this Kat Atlas claims. and he didn't even know who Arnold was!! Since nobody in the world knew who Arnold was until 1977.
Lets see you pull a rabbit out of your you know what responding to everything I posted!! Cant wait.
Better yet to save the embarrassment, since you just joined this board a few days ago. Just delete this account and comeback with a different one and don't ever ever ever EVER post on threads like this again.

Arnold and Wilt could have known each other well before Arnold was famous. They could have known each other before Arnold came to the USA. Why do you think Arnold would have to be famous to know Wilt? Are you claiming Wilt was too pompous to be friends with non-celebrities? I'm going to address where you were wrong (IMO). I do apologize for missing many other wrong (IMO) ideas you've had. There were so many and I didn't want to waste time searching through all your posts.

-You believe only the "famous" can know each other
-You believe only the "non-famous" can know each other
-You believed the Olympia/Arnold were open to absolutely all competitors who want to compete, including yourself
-You believed the Olympia and Arnold were for natural athletes
-You claimed "ALL" WWE wrestlers use PEDs WITHOUT one exception
-You believed Arnold used Nolvadex
-You believed Arnold used Proviron
-You believed AIs were common in the Golden Era of bodybuilding
-You believe bodybuilding forums provide 100% accurate information about juicing
-You believe to be an expert on something you have yet to try yourself (so your physique suggests)
-You believed Reed was ONLY a physique model
-You don't believe Reed is a bodybuilder, despite himself claiming to be a bodybuilder
-You claim natural bodybuilders are not real bodybuilders
-You accused a self-proclaimed natural athlete to be a "juicehead"
-You believed taking an extra half-scoop of creatine would drastically make you bigger
-You do not know how to spell "CAT"

You don't have to try to defend your ideas. It's fine, you already shared them openly. I'm sorry TonyMontana, but I'm just wasting my time trying to change your ideas for the better (IMO). Your ideas appear to be set. I would love to continue this discussion, especially considering you have the extra time to talk, but I have more important things I need to attend to. Life in general. You're a funny kid, especially when you're not trying to be funny. You're one of a kind. Don't let anyone ever take that away from you TonyMontana. Thanks for the chat, buddy

Warned for getting off subject and trying to win your argument with personal attacks and in the process, insulting people less fortunate than us.

[TonyMontana]

This is a well put together post.

Thanks mang. You appreciating it is good enough for me homie.

[TonyMontana]

Arnold and Wilt could have known each other well before Arnold was famous. They could have known each other before Arnold came to the USA. Why do you think Arnold would have to be famous to know Wilt? Are you claiming Wilt was too pompous to be friends with non-celebrities? I'm going to address where you were wrong (IMO). I do apologize for missing many other wrong (IMO) ideas you've had. There were so many and I didn't want to waste time searching through all your posts.

This KAT!!!!! He just wont go away!!

Here if you want to keep riding this train then Choooo Chooo.

I didn't claim anything. I showed you. You got called out and addressed of your false claims by my first reply to your ridiculous accusation and nonsense when you claimed Wilt Chamberlin, a NBA superstar which was known to have had a heart attack and heart problems in 1960 which at that time Arnold was ONLY A 13 year old kid living on the other side of the world in Austria.

Infact the first time Wilt Chamberlin met Arnold was on the movie set of Conan the Destroyer which was in 1984 and Wilt had retired in 1973. LMAOOOOO!!

Which you claimed that Wilt was taking not just Testosterone but Dbol Dianabol which was and still is the most potent/toxic steroids known to mankind to cause heart attacks heart failures and liver disease!!! And that's just by using Dbol and nothing else.

Your first thread showed how clueless and uneducated you are about this subject. And not only have I addressed that on my FIRST post but several times and I have provided links comments and backed up every single post, yet you keep going around everything!!!

-You believe only the "famous" can know each other.

I didn't say that!!! I simply showed you since you claimed this

It's fairly safe to say that Wilt was at least using test and dbol. Supposedly Wilt lifted with Arnold consistently and I doubt Wilt was worried about health repercussions, considering his sexual history. Players have always used PEDs since near the beginning .

and this

I'm not sure why Wilt would use test and dbol. I wouldn't judge him if he did though, because I understand he wanted to be the best he could be.

I'm not claiming Wilt used because he hung out with Arnold. I'm claiming Wilt used because he was a lean 275lb basketball player. He was strong as an ox. Wilt wanted to win. Based on his other decisions, he would not have worried about the health repercussions. Further, because he lifted with Arnold, Wilt would have been exposed to test itself and dbol. Would you make the case that Wilt WASN'T using test or dbol? . The guy died from CVD..

-You believe only the "non-famous" can know each other.

I didn't say that. clearly your biggest issue here is your reading comprehension and skills or the fact that your back pedaling and avoiding my comments since you are clueless about this subject and the fact that you claimed a NBA legend who was known for heart problems high blood pressure was being guided by a teenager whonot only trained with him but also exposed/shared with him one of the worst steroids known to mankind at the age of 13 from half waay around the world. When everone knows Wilt retired in 1973 and nobody knew who Arnold was until 1977.

-You believed the Olympia/Arnold were open to absolutely all competitors who want to compete, including yourself.

Again I didn't say that. If anything I said to compete in those events including IFBB you have to be a true bodybuilder which I provided/explained what the definition of what a bodybuilder and what a fitness model is.

-You believed the Olympia and Arnold were for natural athletes.

Where did I say that??? If anything I said that you cant obtain that type of body without juicing!!

-You claimed "ALL" WWE wrestlers use PEDs WITHOUT one exception.

Dammmm. Your just sitting here and posting NONSENSE. If anything I stated that MAJORITY of WWE stars have been linked and known to using steroids and I provided not one but three links to prove your wrong YET AGAIN.

-You believed Arnold used Nolvadex.

Again your clueless. If you knew ANYTHING about PED like you think you do. Then as you can see on the links I provided and as Slavamedevenko said Dbol will cause "gyno" and in order to prevent that you must and have to take Nolvadex and every person that has a clue about steroids knows that.

-You believed Arnold used Proviron.

I brought up Proviron since you googled and claimed that Nolvadex wasn't invited until the late 80s, but then again YOU would know that if you actually had a clue about Steroids which you don't.

-You believed AIs were common in the Golden Era of bodybuilding.

Huhhhhhhh?????

-You believe bodybuilding forums provide 100% accurate information about juicing.

I didn't say that.
Your clueless post!!!

It's relatively tough to use PEDs in high school and understand PCTs, AIs, and stacking. In the Pros, it becomes a lot easier to find a guru to help out.

WOW....Really??
And my response!!

Well over 21% of high school kids not only athletes but High school kids have juiced. Go on every site like bodybuilders.com bodybuilding.com and so on and so on and you can see millions of posts on how to juice what are good stacks how many CC to take and when and where to inject, how to stack what to stack etc. Hell you can even order legit gear from most sites that come right to your front door.

-You believe to be an expert on something you have yet to try yourself (so your physique suggests).

I never claimed Im an expert, BUT I KNOW MORE THAN YOU about this subject. Infact a high school football player knows more about this subject than YOU DO. Also I never mentioned whether or not I used Roids. And the only comment I made about myself was the fact that Im 6ft tall and I weight 210 with a B.F of 11.3% which you claimed was "Slim" yet two other posters clowned you about that comment!!

-You believed Reed was ONLY a physique model.

Again, you clearly cant read. I didn't say physique!! I said a fitness model.

-You don't believe Reed is a bodybuilder, despite himself claiming to be a bodybuilder.

LMAOOOOO!!! I think Im the sexiest man alive!! Its one thing for me to claim that and then there is a thing called reality.
He is a fitness model seeing how he has only competed in fitness modeling contest and he doesn't have the physic, the mass, the definition, the body to compete in the REAL bodybuilding circuit like IFBB Arnold Classic Mr Olympia. I have already provided not once but twice the definition of a "Fitness model" and a "Bodybuilder" . I cant help it if you cant read or clueless. But here!! Let me give you an example that you can comprehend.
Reed is like a race car driver that races in a derby lets say on 4 of July at the "Chicken saw county fair" in Alabama. Now what your doing is comparing him to lets say "Jeff Gordon" who actually races in NASCAR. See the difference?? Different stage different settings and different levels of being called " A RACE CAR DRIVER"
I hope that helped!!

-You claim natural bodybuilders are not real bodybuilders.

Where did I say that?? What I said that. To obtain the mass size and body that lets say Reed has is impossible to obtain unless you juiced. So unless your juicing then the term "Natural" doesn't apply. Love how you keep changing my comments even though everything I have written is completely the opposite of what you are posting.

-You accused a self-proclaimed natural athlete to be a "juicehead".

Again, you really need to work on your reading comprehension and your reading skills.

-You believed taking an extra half-scoop of creatine would drastically make you bigger
-You do not know how to spell "CAT".

Its very obvious that you cant see or read "Online SARCASM" since me and two other posters were doing when you claimed my size and weight was considered in your eyes to be "SLIM" or better yet Lebron being "average" or " Not being "Aesthetic" then you would've caught on about my adding "half-scoop" of creatine comment!!
Or better yet me calling you "KAT"
See I know how to spell cat and I know the difference between "ship" and "Sheep" but me calling you "kat" is a slang for a DIVA, A princess, a beauty queen etc. See if I would've called you what I wanted to call you then I would probably get banned for sure from this site. So I called you a "KAT" .....
Google that since your good at googling!!

[TonyMontana]

You don't have to try to defend your ideas. It's fine, you already shared them openly. I'm sorry TonyMontana, but I'm just wasting my time trying to change your ideas for the better (IMO). Your ideas appear to be set. I would love to continue this discussion, especially considering you have the extra time to talk, but I have more important things I need to attend to. Life in general. You're a funny kid, especially when you're not trying to be funny. You're one of a kind. Don't let anyone ever take that away from you TonyMontana. Thanks for the chat, buddy

Okay. if you say so. Yet I addressed every single one of your comments with valid links and sources and all you have done was avoid mine and back pedaled in circles.

Let me be as civilized as I possibly can be.

This boards Rules and Guidelines are very simple. If you make a claim or accusation then you need to provide some sort of a link or a valid source (not message boards/forums) to back up your claim or accusation. If you cant then you are in violation of this boards R&G.

So with that being said and you can disregard everything I wrote and lets start fresh from this post forward.
I am an overweight unhealthy kid in middle school and I just joined my first forum and I saw this post.

So now.

Prove me and others wrong by posting some sort of a valid link or source, I MEAN ANYTHING that can back up your claim and accusation of Wilt using steroids/dbol etc and his association with Arnold and training with Arnold while he was active in the NBA???????

I mean how hard can it be to come up with one valid link or source? Right??

Show me something that states Wilt was using Steroids??
Specially Dbol as you put it.
Show me/us that Wilt was training with Arnold not after he had retired which I have already addressed (Conan the destroyer in 1984) that Wilt was training with Arnold when he was active in the NBA.

I would love to see that. If you cant then that clearly proves your trolling and spamming this thread and you are clueless about Steroids and PED's.

PROVE ME WRONG!!

[TonyMontana]

Buuuuuuuump for one link. lol

Atlas couldnt even come up with one link to backup his claims!!!

I guess homie went MIA.