Time to be honest about Iman Shumpert

[Buggin Out]

I've actually changed my stance on Shumpert. I wouldn't trade him unless a really good deal came a long. I still think he is horribly overrated, lazy and has bad BBIQ, but he can improve in all those areas. No point to trade him just to trade him

But Shump really needs to work on his handles, finishing ability and develop consistency in his shot. Also he needs to develop a legit go to move, not this poorly executed crossover, into the lane bullsh*t

I am rooting for Shump, but he has to show me he wants it. Hopefully when it comes time to sign his extension it will be worth it, because I really don't want to sign a mediocre Shump to a multi year deal. But he has shown flashes so I think he can improve

[Buggin Out]

How about the fact that the coach calls plays that Melo holds the ball 80% of the possessions id be pissed off if I was Iman too. If we suck we might as well play the youngens gimme Murray Hardaway Jr and Shump let's have some fun while we lose instead if playing guys like Udrih JR and Felton.

What offensive skill of Imans would you like the coach to call plays on offense for? He can't dribble drive. He isn't good at running off multiple screens for a jump shot he can't handle the ball on the break he can't break down a defense to create for others His offensive skill set is to stand in the corner and shot a wide open 3 which 90% of the time is created by the dreaded Melo ISO.

Shump didn't not improve one individual basketball skill in the offseason. That had nothing to do with Woodson that has to do with Shumps work ethic.

I would love to hear what you think of David Lee because pretty much you described what he was the first couple of years in the league and now hes a 20 and 10 guy.

Shump works well with ball movement he cuts to the basket and he has the ability to finish strong with a thunderous dunk. If you want to complain about someone pick out Chandler. The guy never finishes ever. Hes so weak, he hasnt gotten better, he hasnt played good defense, he hasnt stayed healthy and oh by the way he gets paid top dollar.

i dont understand why there is so much hate on Shump. He's extremely limited by the horrible PG play, the 0 effort JR has made, the horrible effort Chandler has put up. How do you expect to develop a player where the coach doesnt hold JR responsible for anything. I dont understand what happened to the play calling...every possession is Melo dribbling down to 3 seconds left and either shooting or making someone else shoot with 1 second left. Please tell me what player could develop in that system??? Or just 1 player who developed while with the Knicks in the last decade?????

People are hating on Shump because he has been playing like sh*t. And are you really mentioning Shump's finishing ability? The dude can't even make a f*cking layup let alone take it strong to the rim.

Also Shump's defense has been subpar, his shot hasn't been falling and he making dumb decisions with the ball.

Also Hardaway is having a great year in this same system with less touches then Shump, so don't say that the system is the reason Shump isn't playing well.

Shump can improve, but he is playing like trash right now

[liknicks7]

Iman receives entirely too much flak here. Iman thrives when theres ball movement in the offense, its not a coincidence that Iman is playing bad in a stagnant offense. When we started moving the ball Shump's play improved, when the ball movement stopped his play declined. When is it time to be honest about Ray Felton & JR Smith?

Hard to have sustained ball movement when none of the guards on the team can hit a wide open jump shot.

[iHeartKNicks]

Iman receives entirely too much flak here. Iman thrives when theres ball movement in the offense, its not a coincidence that Iman is playing bad in a stagnant offense. When we started moving the ball Shump's play improved, when the ball movement stopped his play declined. When is it time to be honest about Ray Felton & JR Smith?

Hard to have sustained ball movement when none of the guards on the team can hit a wide open jump shot.

Are you sure that we put 100% effort into moving the basketball this season?
The way I understand basketball is as long as you move the basketball, someone will get open, not nobodies hitting shots so play hogball; which still results in a loss…
The 1 stretch this season when we got ball movement Iman thrived. Last season we had ball movement and Iman knocked down shots so whats the difference between 2012-13 Shump & 2013-14 Shump?
Honestly I would love to see Shump traded to a team that actually has an offensive system to watch him thrive so I can read some of you guys responses as to why he couldn't (thrive) on the knicks.
But if Shump not being able to hit shots is your rationale for the lack of ball movement then whats your rationale for JR shooting bad also?

[RC3isback]

Shumpert doesnt know how to play basketball. How can a 6"5 guard not be able to finish and make an easy layup. He doesn't know how to dribble and think hes too coool. HOld the phone. What is that. He is just terrible. He doesnt care and only cares abouut his rapping and swag

[liknicks7]

Iman receives entirely too much flak here. Iman thrives when theres ball movement in the offense, its not a coincidence that Iman is playing bad in a stagnant offense. When we started moving the ball Shump's play improved, when the ball movement stopped his play declined. When is it time to be honest about Ray Felton & JR Smith?

Hard to have sustained ball movement when none of the guards on the team can hit a wide open jump shot.

Are you sure that we put 100% effort into moving the basketball this season?
The way I understand basketball is as long as you move the basketball, someone will get open, not nobodies hitting shots so play hogball; which still results in a loss…
The 1 stretch this season when we got ball movement Iman thrived. Last season we had ball movement and Iman knocked down shots so whats the difference between 2012-13 Shump & 2013-14 Shump?
Honestly I would love to see Shump traded to a team that actually has an offensive system to watch him thrive so I can read some of you guys responses as to why he couldn't (thrive) on the knicks.
But if Shump not being able to hit shots is your rationale for the lack of ball movement then whats your rationale for JR shooting bad also?

I'm not just slamming Shump, my point is that we do move the ball at times but we can never get the mojo going because nobody outside of Melo knows how to put the ball in the hoop. It looks like we have ball movement when players are hitting shots. Usually they are not so it looks worse than it is....thennn inevitably Melo stops trusting his teammates because well, can you blame him?

[HarthorneWingo]

^^^^ I know we're not hitting shots, but I still think our ball movement has been horrible lately. Yes, Shump has missed a lot of open looks lately but we would've lost those games for other reasons.

[NoLayupRule]

^^^^ I know we're not hitting shots, but I still think our ball movement has been horrible lately. Yes, Shump has missed a lot of open looks lately but we would've lost those games for other reasons.

our PG play has been terrible all season

leadership, defense, ball movement

the only thing we don't do too often is turn it over. thats mostly because we walk it up court and dump it in to Melo or tyson on the high post

useless

[HarthorneWingo]

^^^^ I know we're not hitting shots, but I still think our ball movement has been horrible lately. Yes, Shump has missed a lot of open looks lately but we would've lost those games for other reasons.

our PG play has been terrible all season

leadership, defense, ball movement

the only thing we don't do too often is turn it over. thats mostly because we walk it up court and dump it in to Melo or tyson on the high post

useless

You're limiting your criticism to just the PGs. You must be a "glass half full" kinda guy.

I think our guard play from both positions have been pretty bad all season but for a few games.

When your as many games under .500 as we are, let's face it, not a lot is going right.

[OAKLEYISMS]

shumps had 2 good games all season.

you wont win anything in this l with our guard play.no team can survive 3 main cogs blowin goats.

shump, felton and jr have all been deplorable this campaign and woodson is 2 dumb to give thj burn.

combine their horrid play with horrid coaching and it equals a horrid basketball team.

stats dont lie. there are only 2 players on this knick team currently cracking the top 100 players statistically.

but yeah, shumps been a massive disappointment this season.

[Thugger HBC]

shumps had 2 good games all season.

you wont win anything in this l with our guard play.no team can survive 3 main cogs blowin goats.

shump, felton and jr have all been deplorable this campaign and woodson is 2 dumb to give thj burn.

combine their horrid play with horrid coaching and it equals a horrid basketball team.

stats dont lie. there are only 2 players on this knick team currently cracking the top 100 players statistically.

but yeah, shumps been a massive disappointment this season.

i'm curious what you consider to be a "good game".

[Clyde_Style]

Too long a thread to digest, but all I'd add is this is the Knicks. You may never know what Shump will or can be until he is playing under a good coach. He is the kind of player who needs coaching and a system that plugs him in appropriately. He is an up and down player here and he might be more consistent in a stable environment because he very much fits the mold of the kind of player better clubs successfully implement which is a good defender who can hit from outside. On a better team, he could fill that role well off the bench. He probably is not a starter as it is.

[HatersGonHate]

Posted this in another locked thread yesterday:

Let's recap his last 6 games:

- 25 points total (4.2 ppg)
- Has not HAD OVER 2 FGM. Is 9/35 from the field (26%)
- Needless to say, 5/24 from 3pt (21%)

I don't care how good your defense is (he's definitely above average, but I wouldn't put him at elite level by any means), this is a pure liability for a starting guard (well, starting for NY at least). If he has any value left, he should definitely be in a trade package.

Let's not get it twisted - those hot games that he's had, effortlessly draining swishes from outside (e.g. vs HOU & SA) are EXCEPTIONS not the norm for Shump.


Can someone inform me which guard in the NBA who is 'perceived' to be as good as Shumpert capable of putting up those 6 game numbers?

[ca1]

Too long a thread to digest, but all I'd add is this is the Knicks. You may never know what Shump will or can be until he is playing under a good coach. He is the kind of player who needs coaching and a system that plugs him in appropriately. He is an up and down player here and he might be more consistent in a stable environment because he very much fits the mold of the kind of player better clubs successfully implement which is a good defender who can hit from outside. On a better team, he could fill that role well off the bench. He probably is not a starter as it is.

I agree, I would like to seem him under a good coach before I close the book on Shump. He looks like an individual who can be rattled by his coach.and if you look how this season started (preseason--with shump yelling at bench) the warning signs where there...like when Woodson said JR was going to start..that I believe started this tumbling effect that has led till now..Ive said all along that we either need to fire Woodson, or trade Shump bc Shump/woodson relationship is ruined so neither are going to be effective.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

Shump needs to be the third ball-handler who primarily hits open shots. Here he's being asked to take on a lead role in the offense because our point guards are useless. To judge him because he can't break down the defense is like judging Melo because he can't play C and protect the paint, or judging Tyson because he can't draw a double team in the post. Shump brings enough to the table with his ability to nail an open 3, his defense, and his rebounding. People who think he's a scrub because he can't do more are engaging in the same mentality that has led us to overvalue guards who can cross-over and hit fade-aways and suck in every other aspect of the game.

[KNIXFAN_83]

Shump is bum. I thought maybe he turned the corner after the texas trip but clearly he's back to his let me just run up and down the court and do nothing ways. this team needs a makeover bad.

[Damas]

Shump is bum. I thought maybe he turned the corner after the texas trip but clearly he's back to his let me just run up and down the court and do nothing ways. this team needs a makeover bad.

Put him in San Antonio and I promise you he will be the most improved player bar none. I don't think he is very good as of now but he needs to go to a team with a lot of structure and assignments. A San Antonio, a MIami and an Indiana type of play structure. I think he can be an excellent back up guard, who will help those teams beautifully. But here as a scorer and as a starter....no.

It just doesn't work.

[iHeartKNicks]

My thing is, Shump isn't here to score 20ppg that was never his destined role. 14-17 points max with great defense & intangibles. He can still become that but our team in every aspect is extremely inconsistent & Shumps poor play is a direct result of our teams inconsistency. When we have real ball movement Shumps overall game improves dramatically because he is an above average role player not a star or superstar so I feel it's unfair to judge him by star standards.
I fully recognize that Shump can't hit a shot & his FG%'s is terrible BUT it's hard to gain a rhythm when your the 5th option on a team with inconsistent play on both sides of the ball.
The game vs Atlanta when he had 9 assists showed me that Shump can contribute to winning basketball.
Notice when Shump grabs a board & pushes the ball up the court meanwhile the other 4 guys are taking their time crossing half court; that has to be discouraging.
Basically all I'm saying is it's u fair to blame Shump for not playing a good role on a team where only select people have roles. He's not a player who thrives in a slow paced iso heavy offense that frowns on transition baskets. To me, blaming Shump for playing bad is the equivalent to talking bad about a Porsche because it couldn't drive it up a snowy mountain.

What about JR Smith? Since he is our 2nd option who we gave the contract to who shot horrible all season also and it's his job to score.

[siar617]

If Shump makes it past the trade deadline I believe we will see a different player

[three2theD]

If Shump makes it past the trade deadline I believe we will see a different player

Again, he's never been a good player his entire career, what makes you think he can all of a sudden turn into one after the trade deadline? Besides Dolan already told the team he's not going to make any moves and he's a man of his word.