Larry Bird vs Lebron James - Greatest SF of all Time

[JordansBulls]

Who is it at this point?

Will this change in the next 2-3 seasons?

[mademan]

I'm not sure how you can objectively have Larry in front of Lebron. Offensively, defensively, stats, accolades..all of it favours Lebron.

[MisterHibachi]

This is LeBron and has been since at least the summer.

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[trex_8063]

I must admit I go with Lebron at this point. If it didn't already become so as of last summer (objectively, you have to at least hold them more or less neck-and-neck by that point), I'll hand it to him as of the halfway point in this season. It's still super-close, though, imo. But if Lebron closes the season strong and maybe gets the Heat into the finals again, I'd say it's got to be him pretty clearly.

[GSP]

Larrys def the better offensive player. Lebrons better overall since he can be an anchor for ur D. I have Larry ahead but Lebron will prolly be there in 2yrs. It took Lebron until his 3rd yr to reach the level of rookie Larry. I have 10 and 13 Lebron ahead of peak Larry

[Colbinii]

Larrys def the better offensive player. Lebrons better overall since he can be an anchor for ur D. I have Larry ahead but Lebron will prolly be there in 2yrs. It took Lebron until his 3rd yr to reach the level of rookie Larry. I have 10 and 13 Lebron ahead of peak Larry

Well, Larry was 23 for most of his rookie campaign with 3 years of College under his belt, while Lebron was 18 as a rookie.

LeBron's second year in the NBA he was putting up 27/7/7, arguable better than anything Larry Bird did in any of his first 5 seasons.

I think LeBron is already a tier ahead of Larry Bird.

[Basketballefan]

Id say its still bird for now, i expect that to change soon thogh especially if he wins another ring this year.

[KyletheDingbat]

I don't know… I like Lebron more, but I'm not sure if meets Bird in the Finals he's winning. Larry was pretty mean. I have a feeling that Lebron would be blanketing him, denying the ball, and Larry would be screaming "pass to me, I'm open!" Like he did with Rodman. But who knows, maybe that behavior would trigger Lebron.

I'm saying Lebron is a better player slightly, but Bird would win when the going got tough.

[Dynasty23-33]

Larry ahead slightly right now. For all intents and purposes, it's a draw. Bron's got one more MVP and Bird's got one more chip. Almost the same number of Finals appearances.

But Bron will have much better longevity, can equal or pass Bird in rings, and Bird does not have a peak advantage over Bron like say he does over someone like Kobe. In the end, this will be LeBron James and will be very soon.

[AMW27]

LeBron will most likely have a better career than Larry when he retires.

Putting rings and mvps to the side with both guys at their best, I would say LeBron is the better player.

[Notanoob]

LeBron will be universally considered the best SF of all time very soon. It's really inevitable.

[whitehops]

Larrys def the better offensive player. Lebrons better overall since he can be an anchor for ur D. I have Larry ahead but Lebron will prolly be there in 2yrs. It took Lebron until his 3rd yr to reach the level of rookie Larry. I have 10 and 13 Lebron ahead of peak Larry

how is bird the better offensive player, let alone 'definitely'?

[Reservoirdawgs]

I will comfortably put Lebron ahead of Bird on this one. If we take a 23-year old Lebron and compare the next six years (I chose six years because the 2014 season isn't over yet, so I removed this current season in my calculations) to Larry from 23-29 we get the following:

Lebron Regular Season (23-29)
PER: 30.3
TS%: 60
eFG%: 54.9
ORtg: 119.7

Larry Regular Season (23-29)
PER: 23
TS%: 55.4
eFG%: 50.6
ORtg: 113.2

What about the postseason?

Lebron Postseason (23-29, 105 games)
PER: 28.7
TS%: 58
eFG%: 51.8
ORtg: 116.5

Larry Postseason (23-29, 87 games)
PER: 20.9
TS%: 52.3
eFG%: 46.9
ORtg: 108

Clearly, this does not include Bird at arguably his best (86-87), but then again Lebron has an incomplete career as well. Lebron is already better than Larry was at the same age.

[SideshowBob]

Larrys def the better offensive player. Lebrons better overall since he can be an anchor for ur D. I have Larry ahead but Lebron will prolly be there in 2yrs. It took Lebron until his 3rd yr to reach the level of rookie Larry. I have 10 and 13 Lebron ahead of peak Larry

I have Lebron ahead offensively for 14 only.

Have Larry ahead overall, Lebron should match him by the end of this season.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Definitely Bird. Lebron should edge him out at some point due to longevity/

[Quotatious]

To me, it's already LeBron. No disrespect to Larry (he's actually one of my favorite players of all-time), but I think that Dr. J is closer to Bird, than Bird is to LeBron. Bird may be a bit better offensive player, but both Doc and LBJ have significant edge over him defensively. Bird is second, but I think that Erving is really close to him. LeBron's edge over Bird will obviously just grow as his career progresses.

[GSP]

Larrys def the better offensive player. Lebrons better overall since he can be an anchor for ur D. I have Larry ahead but Lebron will prolly be there in 2yrs. It took Lebron until his 3rd yr to reach the level of rookie Larry. I have 10 and 13 Lebron ahead of peak Larry

I have Lebron ahead offensively for 14 only.

Have Larry ahead overall, Lebron should match him by the end of this season.

Thats interesting what do u see differently from him compared to last season? He seems the same on that end to me but worse defensively tho that could be b/c hes not really putting in the effort

[SideshowBob]

Larrys def the better offensive player. Lebrons better overall since he can be an anchor for ur D. I have Larry ahead but Lebron will prolly be there in 2yrs. It took Lebron until his 3rd yr to reach the level of rookie Larry. I have 10 and 13 Lebron ahead of peak Larry

I have Lebron ahead offensively for 14 only.

Have Larry ahead overall, Lebron should match him by the end of this season.

Thats interesting what do u see differently from him compared to last season? He seems the same on that end to me but worse defensively tho that could be b/c hes not really putting in the effort

On offense, I see several improvements from 2013:

-Off-ball play. This is most active I've ever seen him off the ball, he's screening all over, very actively cutting, setting up on the block, curling to the basket, catch/shoot off screens, etc. etc. I'm seeing defenses frequently in scrambles from his movement.

-Post play. He now looks dynamic down-low. He's excellent at getting good positioning off the ball and can't be fronted at all (almost always leads to a basket). More polished when creating for himself (baseline fade-away is no longer go-to move), comfortable using counters, improved footwork.

-Slashing game. I think he looks better in terms of quickness/explosion than any Miami year (though not stamina/durability). The slashing game has become his bread and butter again. He's gotten comfortable looking to attack the basket off the dribble first and foremost again. Note that all three of these points help increase the pressure he puts on the middle.

On the other hand, his jumper has clearly regressed. Its been inconsistent; in the first few months, he was blazing from down town but was struggling from mid-range. Now its been flip-flopped; he's been great setting up from inside the arc, but is struggling to make those outside shots, even spotting up. That makes his ability to space the floor a bit wonky, but he's been making up for it in other areas. If he puts them together, this is clearly his best offensive season to me.

Dunno about defense yet. He seems clearly weaker, I agree, which is weird because he looks great physically. If he demonstrates the ability to turn it on a bit in the 2nd half or in the postseason, I might rate it around 09/10 (+2-2.5), but have it below those for now, and definitely below 12/13.

[MisterHibachi]

-Off-ball play. This is most active I've ever seen him off the ball, he's screening all over, very actively cutting, setting up on the block, curling to the basket, catch/shoot off screens, etc. etc. I'm seeing defenses frequently in scrambles from his movement.

Spo is calling a lot of plays where LeBron gets a screen on the weak side and curls into the paint and receives a pass from the wing. Those are very effective, especially when Bosh is screening for him. I wanna see Oden involved in those too.

-Post play. He now looks dynamic down-low. He's excellent at getting good positioning off the ball and can't be fronted at all (almost always leads to a basket). More polished when creating for himself (baseline fade-away is no longer go-to move), comfortable using counters, improved footwork.

This is also because of Bosh. I noted this before in the LeBron thread I think. Whenever he gets fronted and Bosh is up top, it's almost always an alley oop finish for LeBron, mostly due to Bosh's IQ and passing skills. Contrast this with the way Melo was fronted by Battier 2 years ago in the playoffs and New York couldn't do anything about it. Miami's offensive IQ is miles ahead of most.

[XTC]

Larry Bird is an all time great no doubt about it, but how can anyone really choose Larry Bird here?

Larry Bird played 13 NBA seasons, while Lebron is currently on his 11th.

Durability
- Lebron has ONLY missed 39 games in his NBA career, for an average of 3.5 missed games per year
- Bird missed 169 games in his NBA career, an average of 13 missed games per year
- Lebron is a tank who barely misses games, Bird became more injury prone as his career went on

Scoring
- Lebron has a career average of 27.5 points, career TS% of 57.9%, eFG% of 52.8%
- Bird has career averages of 24.3 points, career TS% of 56.4%, eFG% of 51.4%
- Lebron scored more, and he scored more efficiently.

Rebounding
- Lebron has a career average of 7.2 rebounds, with a rebounding % of 10.8
- Bird has career averages of 10 rebounds per game, with a rebounding % of 14.5
- Bird is the better rebounder, grabs more rebounds and grabs a higher % of his teams rebounds as well

Playmaking
- Lebron has career averages of 6.9 assists, 3.3 turnovers, an assist % of 34.3, and a turnover% of 12.2
- Bird has career averaged of 6.3 assists, 3.1 turnovers, an assist % of 24.7, and a turnover% of 12.7
- Lebron wins here

Defense
- Lebron is a five time and counting member of the All NBA Defensive 1st team, and DPOY runner up
- Bird was never named to the first team, was never a DPOY or a DPOY runner up, was better at racking up steals
- Hard one to compare really, but this is Lebron convincingly in my eyes.

Misc
- Lebron has a career PER of 27.7 Vs Bird who has a career PER of 23.5
- Lebrons has a PER of 27.3 in the playoffs Vs Bird who has a PER of 21.4 in the playoffs
- Lebron has made 1000+ 3's on 34% shooting Vs Bird who made 649 on 38% shooting
- Lebron has surpassed Bird in scoring, and assist even though he played 2 less seasons
- Lebron and Bird both have 2 Finals MVP's
- Larry Bird has 3 championships, while Lebron has 2
- Lebron has 4 MVP trophies, while Bird has 3
- Lebron currently has 161.2 win shares total in his career Vs Bird who has 145.8 through 13 NBA seasons

I know I probably left somethings out, but I fail to see how anyone can rank Bird higher than Lebron James. Lebron is doing some legendary stuff out there. This is easily Lebron for me.