PC Board All-Time Fantasy League Project - Discussion Thread

[MisterHibachi]

I'm not underestimating it at all. I think you have a pretty well rounded team, probably the best team you could build around Kobe.

[ThunderDan9]

I'm not underestimating it at all. (Where did you get this idea?)

I realized even during the draft procedure that our teams are built in a similar way. For a while, it was almost like a pick-to-pcik parallel... (Kobe-Bird, Zo-Dwight, Billups-Manu etc.)
End the end result is similar as well... we both have a defensive anchor in the middle - but we both didn't select defensive specialists at the perimeter... both our teams should be at least (!) adequate at defense... while both our teams are offensive minded, with excellent shooters and overall scorers.

[MisterHibachi]

Just waiting on HeartBreakKid and Notanoob now..

[john248]

Setting the years should be the easiest and quickest part of this!!!

[Quotatious]

I'm not underestimating it at all. (Where did you get this idea?)

You know, I'm just trying to get some motivation by making up stuff, like a guy like MJ did in terms of his opposition. I felt like almost all of the teams got some love from others during the draft, but no one ever talked about my squad, so I felt like people thought that mine was the weakest.

I realized even during the draft procedure that our teams are built in a similar way. For a while, it was almost like a pick-to-pcik parallel... (Kobe-Bird, Zo-Dwight, Billups-Manu etc.)

I didn't realize it before, honestly I saw some similarities between my team and Hibachi's.

End the end result is similar as well... we both have a defensive anchor in the middle - but we both didn't select defensive specialists at the perimeter

Well, at least we have excellent man defenders at the two guard off the bench - Majerle and Christie.

both our teams should be at least (!) adequate at defense... while both our teams are offensive minded, with excellent shooters and overall scorers.

Yep.

I'm not underestimating it at all. I think you have a pretty well rounded team, probably the best team you could build around Kobe.

Okay. If we're saying nice things about others' teams, I have to admit that your team has overwhelming athleticism and rebounding, even if your guys are a bit lacking in terms of size (but my guys also aren't exactly the biggest, as I have a 6'10'' center, 6'8'' power forward and 190-200 lbs small forward. It's been proven by the Heat that you can win a title (multiple titiles, that is) playing a smallball, so we should be fine.


I really like the fact that therealbig3 volunteered to be a judge. He's IMO a very good poster who knows how to analyze stats, so that's always great to have some more input from someone knowledgeable. The more judges we can get, the better.

[Notanoob]

Sorry I've been taking my time, things got a little hectic in my real life. Now, before I actually submit the years, how much situational stuff gets taken into account?

For instance, Jason Terry is a former 6th Man of the Year, but was regularly a starter during his career. Should I be worried about selecting years when he was a starter, and possibly wouldn't be as willing to come off the bench?

This isn't quit as easy as I figured. Do I take the Vince Carter who didn't whine and played defense (Nets years) or the super-human one in Toronto, including his roookie season?

Some are obvious though. Hakeem is 93-95. Metta is 08-10. Rodman is 89-91 (before he really went crazy). Afflalo is 11-13. Rollins is 82-84.

[MisterHibachi]

For instance, Jason Terry is a former 6th Man of the Year, but was regularly a starter during his career. Should I be worried about selecting years when he was a starter, and possibly wouldn't be as willing to come off the bench?

This isn't quit as easy as I figured. Do I take the Vince Carter who didn't whine and played defense (Nets years) or the super-human one in Toronto, including his roookie season?

I've taken years of players when they were starters. I think its almost a given that most 4th or 5th tier players have to come off the bench in this game. Like Ibaka has never come off the bench or Iggy, but they have to in my lineup cuz there's better talent ahead of them. I think Terry will be fine with coming off the bench, as you said he's a former 6th MOY.

VC is up to you tho. Some judges might be iffy with the chemistry there, but if you can convince them that he'll be fine then you can choose his T.O years. RSCD3_ has the toughest challenge ahead of him imo, bringing Iverson off the bench.

[Notanoob]

For instance, Jason Terry is a former 6th Man of the Year, but was regularly a starter during his career. Should I be worried about selecting years when he was a starter, and possibly wouldn't be as willing to come off the bench?

This isn't quit as easy as I figured. Do I take the Vince Carter who didn't whine and played defense (Nets years) or the super-human one in Toronto, including his roookie season?

I've taken years of players when they were starters. I think its almost a given that most 4th or 5th tier players have to come off the bench in this game. Like Ibaka has never come off the bench or Iggy, but they have to in my lineup cuz there's better talent ahead of them. I think Terry will be fine with coming off the bench, as you said he's a former 6th MOY.

VC is up to you tho. Some judges might be iffy with the chemistry there, but if you can convince them that he'll be fine then you can choose his T.O years. RSCD3_ has the toughest challenge ahead of him imo, bringing Iverson off the bench.

He's really going to try an make him come off the bench? Didn't he ever hear Iverson's "Bench Speech"? He's doomed.

My problem in evaluating chemistry is I was too young to follow the NBA at the time for most of these guys, so I have no clue how big a problem anyone really was.

Other thing I have to think about is usage. Bosh has changed his roles significantly since he joined the Heat. How much of that could he do during his Torronto years? His transition has appeared fairly seamless to me, but can I call him a great high-post player when he didn't opperate there as much in Torronto (IIRC)? Mookie too, he started handing out a lot fewer assists once Nique left and he had to shoulder more of the scoring load.

[Quotatious]

Regarding Iverson, I think the only team on which he'd be willing to come off the bench would probably be one with Magic and Jordan at guard spots. Any other, and AI would feel like he should be starting...I honestly thought that he would've gone undrafted.

Hell, I'm even a little worried about peak Mullin coming off the pine (he averaged 39-40 MPG during the 3-year stretch from 1990-92), and I know that I somehow have to find a way to give him a lot of playing time. He was a relatively low usage player (despite high PPG numbers and minutes), and a willing, unselfish passer, so it's not nearly as bad as it is with AI.

I don't see a problem with Bosh not starting. He's a pretty laid-back and intelligent guy and I'm sure that he'd understand that's the best way for him to help his team.

[MisterHibachi]

For instance, Jason Terry is a former 6th Man of the Year, but was regularly a starter during his career. Should I be worried about selecting years when he was a starter, and possibly wouldn't be as willing to come off the bench?

This isn't quit as easy as I figured. Do I take the Vince Carter who didn't whine and played defense (Nets years) or the super-human one in Toronto, including his roookie season?

I've taken years of players when they were starters. I think its almost a given that most 4th or 5th tier players have to come off the bench in this game. Like Ibaka has never come off the bench or Iggy, but they have to in my lineup cuz there's better talent ahead of them. I think Terry will be fine with coming off the bench, as you said he's a former 6th MOY.

VC is up to you tho. Some judges might be iffy with the chemistry there, but if you can convince them that he'll be fine then you can choose his T.O years. RSCD3_ has the toughest challenge ahead of him imo, bringing Iverson off the bench.

He's really going to try an make him come off the bench? Didn't he ever hear Iverson's "Bench Speech"? He's doomed.

My problem in evaluating chemistry is I was too young to follow the NBA at the time for most of these guys, so I have no clue how big a problem anyone really was.

Other thing I have to think about is usage. Bosh has changed his roles significantly since he joined the Heat. How much of that could he do during his Torronto years? His transition has appeared fairly seamless to me, but can I call him a great high-post player when he didn't opperate there as much in Torronto (IIRC)? Mookie too, he started handing out a lot fewer assists once Nique left and he had to shoulder more of the scoring load.

With Bosh, you can point to his Olympic run in 08. He was perfectly willing to give up the alpha role and the shots. And Bosh was right in the middle of his peak when he agreed to give it all up and go to Miami to be 3rd fiddle. So, I doubt you'll have a problem with Bosh wanting to be the man. I think you can make similar arguments for others. Almost all players are willing to give up touches to be part of a champion, and most of those who aren't willing weren't even drafted. In the end tho, its all up to the judges and how you argue your chemistry case. If the judges see a problem, they'll point it out and you can try to convince them that it won't be a problem.

Edit: just reread your Bosh comment. I answered a question you weren't even asking lol. Well, Bosh in Toronto wasn't just a low post player. He was good in the high post and the mid post then too. He's gotten better in the high post now, in my opinion mostly because he's being featured there more often. I think Bosh in Toronto would've been just as capable, maybe a tad less, but again, up to the judges.

[Notanoob]

From what I've read, it appears that his effort issues stemmed from frustration with management, which should be an issue in this exercise, right? Unlike the Raptor's GM, I'm interested in winning now and have built a really strong team-is it nuts to figure he's going to try harder than he did in real life?

Also, I never realized, but Paul Pierce had some awful shooting years- 02/03 and 03/04 he was barely a 30% 3 point shooter! I basically can't use young Truth because of those ugly years. 07-09 Pierce it is then.

[john248]

The only problem I had with Bosh is, even if someone picks his Toronto years, we know how he is with 2 other stars where he gets less offensive reb due to his offensive role, and he has a couple good defensive reb seasons in Toronto that dropped a little when he got to Miami. Granted his defensive role changed for the better as he is coachable, but I can see someone pointing this out.

[ardee]

From what I've read, it appears that his effort issues stemmed from frustration with management, which should be an issue in this exercise, right? Unlike the Raptor's GM, I'm interested in winning now and have built a really strong team-is it nuts to figure he's going to try harder than he did in real life?

Also, I never realized, but Paul Pierce had some awful shooting years- 02/03 and 03/04 he was barely a 30% 3 point shooter! I basically can't use young Truth because of those ugly years. 07-09 Pierce it is then.

I don't think 07 Pierce played nearly enough games

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[Notanoob]

I mean the 07-08 season. I start with the year the season started, not ended. Is that weird?

[Quotatious]

I think that the 2001-2003 version of Pierce is the best if you want a true second option for Hakeem, but considering that you also have Carter on your team, I'd rather take the more refined, patient and offensively versatile 08-10 version of the Truth. As far as Carter, I'd go with 05-07 Vince. If you took the early years (01-03 for Pierce, 99-01 for Carter), it's pretty possible that they wouldn't be able to get along. I'd rather take the older, smarter, more efficient and defensively more responsible versions of both guys.

Heck, I shouldn't be helping you here.

BTW. I actually considered taking 08-10 Kobe with my first pick and then 08-10 Pierce and maybe also 08-10 Billups with my third pick, but I felt like I had to have a superstar bigman, taking into account that I'd have to go against a team with likes of Hakeem, Shaq, D-Rob, Kareem etc. Damn, these backcourt trio that I mentioned in the last sentence would've been incredibly versatile, provide excellent shooting and bully the hell out of nearly everyone in the post...

[Notanoob]

With Pierce, it was easier to go with the older version, since he's aged so well. It's harder for me to tell with Carter though, because I didn't see his first three seasons, so I really don't know how much better he was as a younger player, how much of his effort issues were real or made up, or how much worse his defense was than it was with the Nets. I figured I'd go with his early years with the Nets, but I could pick one of his full seasons with the Raps (03/04), when not only was he younger and thus probably more explosive, but also shot better from 3 than he did with the Nets in 06/07. I figure I can get the best of both worlds, but it depends on how harshly people judge him for how he left the Raptors.

Of course, I don't know how closely people will look at those 3 year peaks exactly. If a guy had a down season, how much are people going to punish you for it when the guy has a reputation as a much better player and has a ton of other years to back it up? I mean, you couldn't ignore Truth shooting 29% from 3 one year, but just in general, you know? Outside of Vince I'm pretty set though.

PG: Mookie Blaylock (93/94-95/96)/Jason Terry (04/05-06/07)
SG: Vince Carter (98/99-00/01)/Arron Afflalo (11/12-13/14)
SF: Paul Pierce (07/08-09/10)/Ron Artest/Metta World Peace (08/09-10/11)
PF: Chris Bosh (07/08-09/10)/Dennis Rodman (89/90-91/92)
C: Hakeem Olajuwon (92/93-94/95)/Tree Rollins (81/82-83/84)

[MisterHibachi]

I mean the 07-08 season. I start with the year the season started, not ended. Is that weird?

I usually do the year ending. 07-08 Pierce would be 08 Pierce for me. That's how I'm writing all the years in the draft thread OP, if anyone does it differently.

[ardee]

So, we good to go?

[MisterHibachi]

So, we good to go?

Nope. HeartBreakKid left. And Notanoob needs years for VC.

[HeartBreakKid]

I'll hand mine in tomorrow. I have a final I've been studying for, so I haven't had time too look too hard into it. After tomorrow morning I'm free!