OT:Jeff Green

hiphop1 · Post #1 » by **hiphop1** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:38 pm

Any interest in bringing him back home seems to love to play there so much so he was wearing a Washington Bulletts hat in the locker room after the game.

Nivek · Post #2 » by **Nivek** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:43 pm

Nice kid, but no. Below average player with a big contract.

TGW · Post #3 » by **TGW** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:50 pm

Nope...he's an average player at best.

jivelikenice · Post #4 » by **jivelikenice** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:50 pm

Agreed. I've mentioned his name as a target here before but its just not a good fit. He's still a tweener and the shooting display from Wednesday was an aberration. He's very talented, but I don't think he's ever played to his talent level on a consistent basis which makes him just a guy....

FAH1223 · Post #5 » by **FAH1223** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:51 pm

He's way too passive. He should shoot more. But no, don't want him here.

jivelikenice · Post #6 » by **jivelikenice** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:56 pm

He's had the label since Georgetown. I remember he barely shot in their Final Four game.

Look, if you're telling me the plan is to just re-sign Gortat and Ariza anyways, sure I'd take Green over Ariza cause he's younger and can play the stretch 4 on a more consistent basis, but that isn't a move that would lead us anywhere.

MikeTheKid · Post #7 » by **MikeTheKid** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:59 pm

Every year hes the player with the biggest talent, upside, ceiling, potential if he can only grab it. Hes 27 now and still average......................NO!!!

Nivek · Post #8 » by **Nivek** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:08 pm

Average is pretty generous, I think. Here's Green vs. league average -- per 40 minutes, pace adjusted to 100 possessions per 48 minutes.

Code: Select all

PER40   Green   LgAvg
Usg     21.0%   20.0%
ortg    100     106
efg     .479    .496
2pt%    .452    .483
3pt%    .364    .358
ft%     .776    .754
3FA     4.8     3.7
FTA     5.5     4.1
TSA48   23.9    20.1
orb     0.9     1.9
drb     5.5     5.6
reb     6.4     7.6
ast     1.9     3.8
stl     0.6     1.4
blk     0.7     0.9
tov     2.5     2.5
pf      2.7     3.6
pts     20.2    17.6
PPA     76      100

So, he shoots more often, but at a below average rate. His 3pt% is up this season, which is good. But, he's below average in rebounding, assists and steals. About average in blocks and turnovers. Doesn't foul much. His per minute scoring is higher than average because he shoots more than average.

pancakes3 · Post #9 » by **pancakes3** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:12 pm

I was going to say "for the right price" but he's getting paid 9 mil a year through 2016. Yikes. Though.. not nearly as bad as Gerald Wallace at 10 mil a year for the same duration.

AFM · Post #10 » by **AFM** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:22 pm

Nivek wrote:Average is pretty generous, I think. Here's Green vs. league average -- per 40 minutes, pace adjusted to 100 possessions per 48 minutes.

Code: Select all
PER40 Green LgAvg Usg 21.0% 20.0% ortg 100 106 efg .479 .496 2pt% .452 .483 3pt% .364 .358 ft% .776 .754 3FA 4.8 3.7 FTA 5.5 4.1 TSA48 23.9 20.1 orb 0.9 1.9 drb 5.5 5.6 reb 6.4 7.6 ast 1.9 3.8 stl 0.6 1.4 blk 0.7 0.9 tov 2.5 2.5 pf 2.7 3.6 pts 20.2 17.6 PPA 76 100

So, he shoots more often, but at a below average rate. His 3pt% is up this season, which is good. But, he's below average in rebounding, assists and steals. About average in blocks and turnovers. Doesn't foul much. His per minute scoring is higher than average because he shoots more than average.

Is that league average for his position?

Nivek · Post #11 » by **Nivek** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:33 pm

Not by position -- just league average. If I looked at just SF, he probably wouldn't fare much better. He's 35th among SFs in PPA rankings.

Kanyewest · Post #12 » by **Kanyewest** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:22 pm

I would have interest in him as a backup- but not for what he's making.

closg00 · Post #13 » by **closg00** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:29 am

Been-there done-that with this discussion in prior threads. NO!

Brazil88 · Post #14 » by **Brazil88** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:47 am

People keep talking about his potential...dude's already 27 and they keep saying he's young...he's 1 year younger than Ariza!

And no...i don't want Jeff Green. Take a look at the Celtics board. They watch him everyday and hate him.

Golfer1081 · Post #15 » by **Golfer1081** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:06 pm

Nivek wrote:Average is pretty generous, I think. Here's Green vs. league average -- per 40 minutes, pace adjusted to 100 possessions per 48 minutes.

Code: Select all
PER40 Green LgAvg Usg 21.0% 20.0% ortg 100 106 efg .479 .496 2pt% .452 .483 3pt% .364 .358 ft% .776 .754 3FA 4.8 3.7 FTA 5.5 4.1 TSA48 23.9 20.1 orb 0.9 1.9 drb 5.5 5.6 reb 6.4 7.6 ast 1.9 3.8 stl 0.6 1.4 blk 0.7 0.9 tov 2.5 2.5 pf 2.7 3.6 pts 20.2 17.6 PPA 76 100

So, he shoots more often, but at a below average rate. His 3pt% is up this season, which is good. But, he's below average in rebounding, assists and steals. About average in blocks and turnovers. Doesn't foul much. His per minute scoring is higher than average because he shoots more than average.

What are these numbers compared too? You need to just go on Espn and compare him to other small forwards, he's ninth in scoring, an around low to mid teens in rebounding, field goal %, 3pt, ect... He has th 15th biggest contract for sf.people are interested in T. Young, their numbers are pretty similar, and Young is going to cost you a bit more in payroll. I don't understand the hate, I think people expected him to be a allstar because of big games he's had, but he's still a top ten-twelve small forward. People need to stop comparing vs rest of league and per 48, it skews everything greatly. especially with bench players that see five minutes a game.

Golfer1081 · Post #16 » by **Golfer1081** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:50 pm

Nivek wrote:Not by position -- just league average. If I looked at just SF, he probably wouldn't fare much better. He's 35th among SFs in PPA rankings.

No clue what ppa means, really hope you aren't going by fantasy stats however. If you go by PER he' 22nd, but all those type of formulas are crap. Beasley and Jeremy Evans are topten in PER, that tells you everything. Webster and Sessions are considered average, I would consider Green as above.

payitforward · Post #17 » by **payitforward** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:02 pm

Golfer1081 wrote:
Nivek wrote:Average is pretty generous, I think. Here's Green vs. league average -- per 40 minutes, pace adjusted to 100 possessions per 48 minutes.

Code: Select all
PER40 Green LgAvg Usg 21.0% 20.0% ortg 100 106 efg .479 .496 2pt% .452 .483 3pt% .364 .358 ft% .776 .754 3FA 4.8 3.7 FTA 5.5 4.1 TSA48 23.9 20.1 orb 0.9 1.9 drb 5.5 5.6 reb 6.4 7.6 ast 1.9 3.8 stl 0.6 1.4 blk 0.7 0.9 tov 2.5 2.5 pf 2.7 3.6 pts 20.2 17.6 PPA 76 100

So, he shoots more often, but at a below average rate. His 3pt% is up this season, which is good. But, he's below average in rebounding, assists and steals. About average in blocks and turnovers. Doesn't foul much. His per minute scoring is higher than average because he shoots more than average.

What are these numbers compared too? You need to just go on Espn and compare him to other small forwards, he's ninth in scoring, an around low to mid teens in rebounding, field goal %, 3pt, ect... He has th 15th biggest contract for sf.people are interested in T. Young, their numbers are pretty similar, and Young is going to cost you a bit more in payroll. I don't understand the hate, I think people expected him to be a allstar because of big games he's had, but he's still a top ten-twelve small forward. People need to stop comparing vs rest of league and per 48, it skews everything greatly. especially with bench players that see five minutes a game.

Sigh....

About 48 guys play the SF 25 or more minutes a night this year. Among them, Jeff has a TS% in the bottom 40%. Martell Webster, for example, has the 6th highest TS% among those guys. So Jeff doesn't distinguish himself as a scorer.

Nor as a rebounder -- overall, he's about average, but he's very low on offensive rebounds (more valuable). And, he doesn't do other stuff -- one of the worst in assists, one of the worst in turnovers.

Jeff's not a good player, sorry. Of course that's just "comparing vs rest of the league"'s shooting forwards who play heavy minutes. If you compare his skills to all other human beings, why, you are right -- he's one of the very best; he plays in the NBA.

payitforward · Post #18 » by **payitforward** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:09 pm

Golfer1081 wrote:
Nivek wrote:Not by position -- just league average. If I looked at just SF, he probably wouldn't fare much better. He's 35th among SFs in PPA rankings.

No clue what ppa means, really hope you aren't going by fantasy stats however. If you go by PER he' 22nd, but all those type of formulas are crap. Beasley and Jeremy Evans are topten in PER, that tells you everything. Webster and Sessions are considered average, I would consider Green as above.

"If you go by PER", Jeff Green's is 13.5 -- which is awful, especially for a guy who shoots a fair amount (PER overestimates shooting -- or you could just say under-penalizes a player for missed shots).

Sessions? He's a point guard I believe. And no one in his right mind considers Martell Webster's production this year (or last) as "average." He's much better than that -- and in particular he's way way way better than Jeff Green!

What's your golf handicap? You must be concentrating there more than on basketball?

hands11 · Post #19 » by **hands11** » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:45 pm

Golfer1081 wrote:
Nivek wrote:Not by position -- just league average. If I looked at just SF, he probably wouldn't fare much better. He's 35th among SFs in PPA rankings.

No clue what ppa means, really hope you aren't going by fantasy stats however. If you go by PER he' 22nd, but all those type of formulas are crap. Beasley and Jeremy Evans are topten in PER, that tells you everything. Webster and Sessions are considered average, I would consider Green as above.

Nivek is a big stat guy and has created his own formula called PPA. He posts the numbers for different players from time to time. Been doing it over a long enough period of time that the correlation has shown to be good.

Does it on draft picks as well.

WizardsWorld · Post #20 » by **WizardsWorld** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:37 pm

I like Jeff Green. Granted he'd be a little bit more desirable if his deal was a bit smaller... but with that being said the one deal I'd consider is:

Green, Bass for Ariza, Maynor, Vesley

It's said that Boston really wants to dump salary, so maybe we could even grab a pick from them in the deal too. They have a ton of picks in the next couple years so maybe they'd throw one our way.
Bass gives us that toughness on the inside that we really don't have,... and Green is a good stretch, only signed for 2 more years after this. Might rather grab him than give Ariza a new 4 year deal. Also you know who Jeff Green is really good friends with, that we're gonna have our hopes and dreams set on in 2016... Just a thought.