ESPN : Jays need to sign one of..

[kavan]

Anyone have ESPN insider that can get some quotes from the full article??

Says we need to land Jimmnez or Santana hmm which is true..I say why not BOTH!

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove ... imenez-mlb

[Schad]

Signing both would mean that we'd have seven starting pitchers making a combined $80m a year. That's not particularly likely, nor is it particularly advisable...if we had that kind of money sitting around (which would mean a payroll of $160-170m), some of it would be better spent upgrading another position of need.

[kavan]

Signing both would mean that we'd have seven starting pitchers making a combined $80m a year. That's not particularly likely, nor is it particularly advisable...if we had that kind of money sitting around (which would mean a payroll of $160-170m), some of it would be better spent upgrading another position of need.

We would look to trade out of one of our SP though to open up a spot maybe some of the quantity for quality position player like 2B.

RA
Morrow
M.B.
Rogers
Hutch

Wouldn't mind seeing a 6 man rotation to start the year to see who fits if we sign one or the other. Or use spring training to figure it out.


We just need the guys that were having good seasons before last year to have great seasons again and this team will be what it was destined to be on paper.

[BigLeagueChew]

If we signed both we give up 2 draft picks.

[kavan]

If we signed both we give up 2 draft picks.

Like the article says we are basically built to win now. This team needs to make moves or we might as well unload.

[Schad]

Signing both would mean that we'd have seven starting pitchers making a combined $80m a year. That's not particularly likely, nor is it particularly advisable...if we had that kind of money sitting around (which would mean a payroll of $160-170m), some of it would be better spent upgrading another position of need.

We would look to trade out of one of our SP though to open up a spot maybe some of the quantity for quality position player like 2B.

RA
Morrow
M.B.
Rogers
Hutch

Wouldn't mind seeing a 6 man rotation to start the year to see who fits if we sign one or the other. Or use spring training to figure it out.

I wasn't even including Rogers or Hutchison in that. We'd have Dickey, Buehrle, Morrow, Jimenez, Santana, Happ and Romero making that combined $80m...that's more than any team in baseball pays its collection of starters, for what it's worth.

We might sign one of those two for massive money, because we're desperate. We shouldn't sign two, because no team should ever be that desperate.

[Michael Bradley]

If Santana and Jimenez are going to get around $14-15M a year, then take the money allocated for a starter, go to Scott Boras, and tell him you want to sign both Stephen Drew and Jeff Baker for that amount (i.e. $11-12M for Drew and $3M for Baker). I agree the Jays rotation as is will require a lot of things going right (DIckey bouncing back, Morrow throwing 180-200 IP, Happ throwing 160-180 IP, one of the youngsters coming in and contributing, etc), but I'm more comfortable with that scenario than I am with Goins/Getz/Izturis at 2B and Moises Sierra on the bench.

AA has to show a little bit of common sense here. The organizational depth at 2B is horrendous, and possibly a bigger concern than SP (the Jays have a few near ready arms in AAA). Don't ignore that just because of the fixation on getting a starter.

[kavan]

If we signed both we give up 2 draft picks.

Like the article says we are basically built to win now. This team needs to make moves or we might as well unload.

[BigLeagueChew]

If we signed both we give up 2 draft picks.

Like the article says we are basically built to win now. This team needs to make moves or we might as well unload.

Article also says nothing about signing both though, or a mention of any trade options out there. Also does not explain if we don't win this year, any reasons why we can't win next year. Unless wanting the team to rebuild is your wish however i don't see any reason for that yet.

[Al_Oliver]

If we signed both we give up 2 draft picks.

Our two 1sts are protected... I would only want to sign one of the two anyways, so forfeiting a 2nd round pick would be fine with me

[flatjacket1]

I'd rather pick up Scott Baker (31 years old) to be honest. Cheaper, no draft pick, not much worse.

Since 2007 he has picked up 836 innings (injury in 2012 missed the season), and has a WHIP of 1.234 and an ERA of 3.97.

He has pitched 140+ innings in 4 of the last 6 seasons, including one 200+ inning season in 2009.

In 2013 with the Cubs, he only pitched 3 (starts) games, but pitched to the tune of 3.6 ERA and a WHIP of under .9. He lost some velocity but would likely sign for under 10M, and no more than 3 years. A risk/reward type move, but I like him.

[Schad]

I'd rather pick up Scott Baker (31 years old) to be honest. Cheaper, no draft pick, not much worse.

Since 2007 he has picked up 836 innings (injury in 2012 missed the season), and has a WHIP of 1.234 and an ERA of 3.97.

He has pitched 140+ innings in 4 of the last 6 seasons, including one 200+ inning season in 2009.

In 2013 with the Cubs, he only pitched 3 (starts) games, but pitched to the tune of 3.6 ERA and a WHIP of under .9. He lost some velocity but would likely sign for under 10M, and no more than 3 years. A risk/reward type move, but I like him.

Another way of putting it: he has just 15 innings pitched in the past two and a half seasons, owing to elbow troubles that led to surgery to fix his UCL (eg., Tommy John) and flexor pronator tendon, followed by a longer than normal recovery time that suggests that it wasn't routine. And in his brief time pitching for the Cubs, both in rehab starts and those three major league appearances, he was throwing 88 MPH and striking out pretty much no one. I'd say that he would likely sign for under $10m AAV and three years...he'll almost certainly receive a one year contract, possibly with a vesting option, and less than half of that money, possibly less than a third of that.

It's pretty bloody difficult to have any idea if Baker is "not much worse" on the basis of 15 innings in 30 months. I'd give him a minor league deal, sure; I certainly wouldn't be giving him a spot in the rotation if we're genuinely trying to compete here.

[LBJSeizedMyID]

I'd rather pick up Scott Baker (31 years old) to be honest. Cheaper, no draft pick, not much worse.

Since 2007 he has picked up 836 innings (injury in 2012 missed the season), and has a WHIP of 1.234 and an ERA of 3.97.

He has pitched 140+ innings in 4 of the last 6 seasons, including one 200+ inning season in 2009.

In 2013 with the Cubs, he only pitched 3 (starts) games, but pitched to the tune of 3.6 ERA and a WHIP of under .9. He lost some velocity but would likely sign for under 10M, and no more than 3 years. A risk/reward type move, but I like him.

Another way of putting it: he has just 15 innings pitched in the past two and a half seasons, owing to elbow troubles that led to surgery to fix his UCL (eg., Tommy John) and flexor pronator tendon, followed by a longer than normal recovery time that suggests that it wasn't routine. And in his brief time pitching for the Cubs, both in rehab starts and those three major league appearances, he was throwing 88 MPH and striking out pretty much no one. I'd say that he would likely sign for under $10m AAV and three years...he'll almost certainly receive a one year contract, possibly with a vesting option, and less than half of that money, possibly less than a third of that.

It's pretty bloody difficult to have any idea if Baker is "not much worse" on the basis of 15 innings in 30 months. I'd give him a minor league deal, sure; I certainly wouldn't be giving him a spot in the rotation if we're genuinely trying to compete here.

Agreed. A minor league deal makes sense, but there's no point on relying on Baker to be a starter with the major league club. That would equate to AA not learning from his mistakes last year.

[Kevin Willis]

Signing both would mean that we'd have seven starting pitchers making a combined $80m a year. That's not particularly likely, nor is it particularly advisable...if we had that kind of money sitting around (which would mean a payroll of $160-170m), some of it would be better spent upgrading another position of need.

We would look to trade out of one of our SP though to open up a spot maybe some of the quantity for quality position player like 2B.

RA
Morrow
M.B.
Rogers
Hutch

Wouldn't mind seeing a 6 man rotation to start the year to see who fits if we sign one or the other. Or use spring training to figure it out.

I wasn't even including Rogers or Hutchison in that. We'd have Dickey, Buehrle, Morrow, Jimenez, Santana, Happ and Romero making that combined $80m...that's more than any team in baseball pays its collection of starters, for what it's worth.

We might sign one of those two for massive money, because we're desperate. We shouldn't sign two, because no team should ever be that desperate.

You forgot Drabek who should be higher than Romero. So right now we have:

Dickey
Buehrle
Morrow
Happ

Battle Royale

Hutchinson
Drabek
Stroman
Romero
Rogers

Long shot

McGowan

Drabek and Hutchinson can turn out to be better than Jimenez / Santana. What an incredibly unpredictable season. Depending on performances we can be wild card team or last in the east. But if Dickey returns to Cy Young form, Buerhle stays Buerhle, Morrow pitches a solid 3/4 of a season and two pitches come out of the Battle Royale strong we have 5 strong arms and a good bullpen with a strong hitting lineup. So the best move may be no move.