ATFL Eastern: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man

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ATFL Eastern: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man 

Post#1 » by MisterHibachi » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:44 pm

This is the thread for the match up of seeds 1 and 8 in the Eastern Conference of the All-Time Fantasy League.

General Discussion in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1293300
Draft was in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1294562
Playoff results in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1299878

Eastern Conference Quarterfinals: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man

(1) RSCD3_
1. LeBron James (12-14)
2. Kevin McHale (86-88)
3. Yao Ming (03-05)
4. Peja Stojakovic (02-04)
5. Eddie Jones (97-99)
6. Allen Iverson (00-02)
7. Gerald Wallace (08-10)
8. Reggie Lewis (91-93)
9. DeMarcus Cousins (12-14)
10. David West (08-10)

(8) Bruh Man
1. Kevin Garnett (03-05)
2. Scottie Pippen (94-96)
3. Reggie Miller (93-95)
4. Jason Kidd (01-03)
5. Mitch Richmond (95-97)
6. Roy Hibbert (12-14)
7. Blake Griffin (12-14)
8. Tim Hardaway (91-93)
9. Nene Hilario (09-11)
10. Tayshaun Prince (07-09)

Judges
bastillon: Bruh Man
TMACFORMVP: Bruh Man
penbeast0
ronnymac2: RSCD3_
Doctor MJ: RSCD3_
SideshowBob: Bruh Man
Texas Chuck: Bruh Man
therealbig3: Bruh Man

In each match up, GMs will offer their preliminary strategy for beating the other team and reasons for why their team is stronger. GMs will also have the opportunity to respond to the opponent's strategy. Judges will offer any comments and questions they have of the GMs and finally will cast their vote for whichever team they think is stronger simply by saying 'Team A wins this matchup' or 'Team B wins this matchup'. Whoever gets more votes moves on.


Good luck!
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Re: ATFL Eastern: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man 

Post#2 » by Bruh Man » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:55 pm

Minutes
Spoiler:
Hibbert(26)/Nene(14)/KG(8)
KG(28)/Griffin(10)/Pippen(8)
Pippen(28)/Prince(12)/Miller(8)
Miller(26)/Richmond(22)
Kidd(26)/Hardaway(22)

*Note these numbers aren't absolute just there to give you an example how a game might play out.


Defense

This teams bread and butter, it’s true Identity is defense. KG with Perkins, Pierce, Allen, Posey, Rondo resulted in one of the best defenses the league has ever seen. A prime KG with HIbbert, Pippen, Prince, Kidd results in nightmares for my opponent. That would be the line-up I would put on the floor if the team is need of a stop.

Again this is a prime KG who in 04 led the league in Win Shares, Rebounds, Points, PER, and won league MVP. There is such a thing as too many scorers and some of the teams in this league have succumb to that, but there is no such thing as too many defenders. Let me put things in perspective even more, even if we combine the 08 celtics with the best defensive team of the last decade which are the 04 Pistons, My team would still be better defensively.

Match-ups

KG will mainly be on Mchale who is a solid post player but Garnett is the perfect player to guard him. HIbbert will be on Yao which he should have no problem containing and boxing out since this isn’t prime Yao were talking about.

Pippen will be the primary defender on Lebron, he will get rest when Lebron does and check back into the game when James checks back in. Pip has routinely shut down perimeter players and this is without the help of two 7 foot defensive beasts behind him, his main aim would basically be to force James into taking long 2’s.

Miller will guard Peja or jones which shouldn’t be a problem, just contest their shots and force them off the 3 point line. Kidd will be on either AI, or Eddie depending on who’s on the court.

Defense-to-Offense

One thing you might not realize by just glancing at my roster is how well they will be able to convert the many defensive stops they will get into easy transition points. From steals, Rebounds, Blocked shots, or any forced or unforced turnovers. No one outside Magic Johnson is better at running a fast break than Jason Kidd. Imagine Kidd with the ball on the break with Griffin and Pippen on the wings, Miller at the 3 and KG trailing :o Good luck stopping that. In fact my entire bench is excellent in transition.

Spoiler:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JplttLbXV0[/youtube]


Offense

This may not be an offensive juggernaut like some of these other teams in the league but they have something most don’t which is chemistry. How? because they are all unselfish, high basketball IQ players, who will essentially play the same role on this team as their original teams.

Kidd will have the ball the most especially in transition, but there will be a lot of ball movement. I have 3 players starting that are excellent playmakers in Kidd/Pip/KG who are all also excellent off the ball.

Speaking of moving without the ball, Reggie Miller is a master at getting open looks and he didn’t have KG setting screens for him or a player of KIdd’s caliber getting him the ball and still rocked a 60% TS which only got better in the playoffs. So he is obviously my go to guy down the stretch
Spoiler:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmme_HV1ccY[/youtube]


Versatility

I have 2 swiss army knives in KG and Pippen who can and will do practically everything on the court. That alone gives me great flexibility for line-ups and styles of play.

for example KG/Griffen/Pip/Miller/Hardaway if the offense needs a boost, or put in Kidd and that might be the most deadly fast break line-up in this league.

final possessions I can trout out KG/Pip/Miller/Richmond/Hardaway that’s two 40% 3 point shooters (with Hardaway and Pip at 35%), five 20+ ppg scorers, all players can handle the ball, with KG/Pip/Miller being elite off the ball. How will my opponent guard that line-up? Just have KG set a pick and my team is guaranteed an open look.

Not only are my players versatile but so is the offense that will be run. Everything from screens, double/triple screens, pick-n-rolls, lots of cuts to the basket with KG at the high post, something very similar to the Spurs offense from the last couple years
Spoiler:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmlIRobedyg[/youtube]


Rebounding

I have by far the best rebounder in this match up in KG who in the 3 year span was averaging 13.6 rpg. Also averaged 3 offensive rebounds per game each year and lead the league in defensive rebounds every year selected. Hibbert’s last two season’s he’s averaged 3.3 and 3.7 offensive rebounds and is currently averaging 3 per game. Kidd and Pippen are also elite rebounders for their positions averaging 6.7 and 7.7 respectively.

Summary

My opponent has Kevin “Black Hole” Mchale, Allen “Practice?” Iverson, and “boogie” Cousins, who will all probably see significant minutes. A young and inexperieced Yao who wasn’t in his prime yet, and Peja who is a great shooter but is known to have the choke gene.

Even if AI, Mchale,Cousins bought into the team concept and accepted their roles on the team(which is unlikely) the team is just a mess in terms of chemistry. Yao and Mchale roaming the paint means KG and Hibbert are doing the same which will make it very difficult for Lebron to drive. My opponent should have built an up tempo team with Lebron that has a bunch of shooters but that isn’t the case. Yao/Mchale are not beating anyone in transition, so my opponent will be forced into his half court offense for most of his possessions. Another problem is ball movement, that team will be very reliant on Lebron creating for everyone which will makes things even easier for my Defense.

My team on the other hand is full of unselfish, High basketball IQ players that will easily buy into the team concept. The biggest disparity in this Match-up is Defense which his team might be adequate at while mine would be Legendary, with all those stops and the fact my team will rebound better that means even less possessions for my opponent. I'm sure you've heard the saying "Defense and Rebounding wins championships" well my team has that in spades.
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Re: ATFL Eastern: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man 

Post#3 » by RSCD3_ » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:15 pm

I will also edit this post to give information on my team/teams strategry.

Edit I :Ok for minutes distribution

Ming 30
Mchale 32
Stojakovic 26
Jones 26
Lebron 37

Cousins 12
West 18
Wallace 13
Re. Lewis 23
Iverson 22

Edit 2: Starting lineup would be
Yao
Mchale
James
Jones
Iverson



Iverson will be starting for about the first 6 minutes and then will come back for about 5 minute stretches during each quarter






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Re: ATFL Eastern: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man 

Post#4 » by ardee » Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:37 am

This one is really interesting.

LeBron vs. Pippen, McHale vs. KG, Hibbert vs. Yao, some great matchups here.

I think RSCD3 may be tripped up by Iverson. It's very ironic that Bruh Man's team would actually be the one that's absolutely PERFECT for Iverson. If one was to swap Iverson and Miller both teams would jump up a level.
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Re: ATFL Eastern: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man 

Post#5 » by kayess » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:03 am

ardee wrote:This one is really interesting.

LeBron vs. Pippen, McHale vs. KG, Hibbert vs. Yao, some great matchups here.

I think RSCD3 may be tripped up by Iverson. It's very ironic that Bruh Man's team would actually be the one that's absolutely PERFECT for Iverson. If one was to swap Iverson and Miller both teams would jump up a level.


Agreed. I'd have been absolutely terrified if the guy drafting Shaq/LeBron managed to draft a Miller/Allen type.

That said, Bruh Man pretty much has the prototype core for stopping a wing player: Huge presence inside in Hibbert, ultra mobile defensive big in Garnett, and Pippen/Kidd on the perimeter. Holy **** ****.

Then again, it IS LeBron + adequate help (pretty sure he can run some Peja/West lineups for spacing), which is always interesting. Good luck!
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Re: ATFL Eastern: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man 

Post#6 » by Notanoob » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:34 am

I agree ardee. It's also funny because LeBron recently called AI the GOAT, or something along those lines. I think that may not work out well in real life. AI absolutely will refuse to come off the bench, and if LeBron really does love AI, he might be willing to keep giving up the ball to his favorite player ever, to the detriment of the team. He'd probably figure out that wasn't working, but AI would not take kindly to not getting touches. Then LeBron would have an epiphany, see his childhood hero's failings, become disillusioned...and quite basketball to play TE in the NFL.

This video might just sink RSCD3_: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... peech&sm=3

Not only is it hilarious (did you catch him refer to himself in the 3rd person?), but it shows a real-life attempt to get past-his-prime Iverson to come off the bench when he really clearly needed to do so. He was not happy about it.

Still, Bruhman has only one 3 point shooter in the starting lineup. JKidd is creative, Scottie is good and Miller can shoot, but RSCD3_ can put out a good enough defensive lineup to make it impossible for Bruhman's starters to score much given their spacing issues. This could be really ugly if we watched in in real life. Or beautiful, if you love defensive basketball.
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Re: ATFL Eastern: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man 

Post#7 » by Laimbeer » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:43 am

Don't like the team around LeBron at all. Yao and McHale clog the paint and AI is awful in this scenario. There are a couple shooters which is nice, but the core is flawed.

On the other hand, I like the blend of KG's team, yet he's not the player or go to guy that LeBron is, so there's that.
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Re: ATFL Eastern: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man 

Post#8 » by ThunderDan9 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:32 pm

Laimbeer wrote:Don't like the team around LeBron at all. Yao and McHale clog the paint and AI is awful in this scenario. There are a couple shooters which is nice, but the core is flawed.

On the other hand, I like the blend of KG's team, yet he's not the player or go to guy that LeBron is, so there's that.


I agree.
The Yao pick, I found it strange, just like the take on Iverson.
But that's only my first impression.
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Re: ATFL Eastern: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man 

Post#9 » by bbms » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:02 pm

Love the matchup.

I give an edge to Bruh man though. Seems like every piece on the team fits the bigger picture. The only thing I don't like is Jason Kidd next to Pippen and Garnett. Even if it was the best PG available Imo, you would like a better shooter in the PG position to pair with this two monsters. But defensively, they're arguably the best defensive core ever.
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Re: ATFL Eastern: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man 

Post#10 » by Texas Chuck » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:54 pm

my early take before we here from the GMs is that KG's team is like the 2011 Mavs defense on steroids and we saw what they were able to do with Lebron--to the point of him basically removing himself from the offense by the end of the game. The difference is his team has other guys it can go to for offense and Lebron can still contribute defensively and on the glass. On the other side, the defense is going to be really strong, but Tim Hardaway is the only guy on the roster who can create his own shot and that is a real problem. This team really needs a go-to player desperately and simply doesnt have one. Clearly going the mid-00s Piston model, but Im skeptical as to how he can make that work in a league with so much firepower. Can he score enough against elite teams?
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Re: ATFL Eastern: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man 

Post#11 » by bbms » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:20 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:my early take before we here from the GMs is that KG's team is like the 2011 Mavs defense on steroids and we saw what they were able to do with Lebron--to the point of him basically removing himself from the offense by the end of the game. The difference is his team has other guys it can go to for offense and Lebron can still contribute defensively and on the glass. On the other side, the defense is going to be really strong, but Tim Hardaway is the only guy on the roster who can create his own shot and that is a real problem. This team really needs a go-to player desperately and simply doesnt have one. Clearly going the mid-00s Piston model, but Im skeptical as to how he can make that work in a league with so much firepower. Can he score enough against elite teams?


How Mitch Richmond is not he guy that can crate his own shot? Specially with two of the best playmakers at their positions. I think Reggie Miller and Mitch Richmond fill enough scoring for this team.
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Re: ATFL Eastern: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man 

Post#12 » by Laimbeer » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:22 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:my early take before we here from the GMs is that KG's team is like the 2011 Mavs defense on steroids and we saw what they were able to do with Lebron--to the point of him basically removing himself from the offense by the end of the game. The difference is his team has other guys it can go to for offense and Lebron can still contribute defensively and on the glass. On the other side, the defense is going to be really strong, but Tim Hardaway is the only guy on the roster who can create his own shot and that is a real problem. This team really needs a go-to player desperately and simply doesnt have one. Clearly going the mid-00s Piston model, but Im skeptical as to how he can make that work in a league with so much firepower. Can he score enough against elite teams?


Good take, and it makes me wonder how this team would look if they'd gone for Rose, who was inexplicably available in the last round. Hindsight, of course.
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Re: ATFL Eastern: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man 

Post#13 » by Texas Chuck » Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:07 pm

bbms wrote:
How Mitch Richmond is not he guy that can crate his own shot? Specially with two of the best playmakers at their positions. I think Reggie Miller and Mitch Richmond fill enough scoring for this team.


Really they have 3--Kidd, Pippen, and KG. Sorry but Im not at all sold on Mitch as a go-to guy when you talking about facing all-time teams with elite defenses like you will here. Ideally each team would have at least 2 guys, but one seems absolutely mandatory and if you are telling me your best two guys are Richmond and Miller in this tournament, Im going to tell you its going to be a struggle.

Now a defense built around Hibbert, KG, Pippen, and Kidd, with a guy like Prince off the bench is going to be really stout, but elite offense tends to find a way and Im concerned about their ability to score enough points and even more concerned about end of game situations. If they are matched up another team that seems close, the edge will always go to the other team in terms of being able to get the shot they want for the guy they want.
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Re: ATFL Eastern: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man 

Post#14 » by therealbig3 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:31 pm

I agree, I really hate the fit around LeBron.

Bruh Man's team at first look has problems offensively, but he found some hidden gems towards the end of the draft (Hardaway, Griffin, and Nene), and I LOVE the team's defense.

LeBron is clearly the best player in the matchup, but Bruh Man has the perfect collection of players to counter him. Against Yao, he has a huge, physical matchup in Hibbert that can bother him.

However, RSCD3_'s team also matches up really well defensively, which makes this overall matchup hard. His team is clearly more talented, it's just a question of whether they can mesh, and I have little faith in them doing that offensively. But the defense is certainly excellent.

As in the other thread, I'm not going to cast an official vote yet, but I'm leaning towards Bruh Man's team right now.
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Re: ATFL Eastern: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man 

Post#15 » by bbms » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:34 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
bbms wrote:
How Mitch Richmond is not he guy that can crate his own shot? Specially with two of the best playmakers at their positions. I think Reggie Miller and Mitch Richmond fill enough scoring for this team.


Really they have 3--Kidd, Pippen, and KG. Sorry but Im not at all sold on Mitch as a go-to guy when you talking about facing all-time teams with elite defenses like you will here. Ideally each team would have at least 2 guys, but one seems absolutely mandatory and if you are telling me your best two guys are Richmond and Miller in this tournament, Im going to tell you its going to be a struggle.

Now a defense built around Hibbert, KG, Pippen, and Kidd, with a guy like Prince off the bench is going to be really stout, but elite offense tends to find a way and Im concerned about their ability to score enough points and even more concerned about end of game situations. If they are matched up another team that seems close, the edge will always go to the other team in terms of being able to get the shot they want for the guy they want.


I really think Bruh Man's team would be a very good half court team. Garnett providing spacing and passing from the high post, Kidd and Pippen on PnRs, tons of ball movement leading Mitch and Reggie to score a load off screens, Kidd was a good post player, and should be better passing to Garnett and Pippen's cuts. Do they lack a strong iso-guy? Maybe, but is that really desirable with players like Kidd and Pippen (great playmakers, not that great at spreading the floor)?
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Re: ATFL Eastern: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man 

Post#16 » by Laimbeer » Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:15 am

therealbig3 wrote:I agree, I really hate the fit around LeBron.

Bruh Man's team at first look has problems offensively, but he found some hidden gems towards the end of the draft (Hardaway, Griffin, and Nene), and I LOVE the team's defense.

LeBron is clearly the best player in the matchup, but Bruh Man has the perfect collection of players to counter him. Against Yao, he has a huge, physical matchup in Hibbert that can bother him.

However, RSCD3_'s team also matches up really well defensively, which makes this overall matchup hard. His team is clearly more talented, it's just a question of whether they can mesh, and I have little faith in them doing that offensively. But the defense is certainly excellent.

As in the other thread, I'm not going to cast an official vote yet, but I'm leaning towards Bruh Man's team right now.


Beyond LeBron, I can't see how they're more talented. Yao and McHale are meh as the rest of the core and bench is quite suspect as Wallace, Cousins, and Lewis are absolute head scratchers.
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Re: ATFL Eastern: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man 

Post#17 » by therealbig3 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:05 am

I'll cast my vote now:

Bruh Man wins this.
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Re: ATFL Eastern: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man 

Post#18 » by CaliBullsFan » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:52 am

I think RSCD3's team will score pretty good because Pippen and KG can't help off Peja and Mchale which will expose Hibbert to Iverson and get him in foul trouble very quick. I also don't think KG can guard Mchale(no one can).
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Re: ATFL Eastern: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man 

Post#19 » by RSCD3_ » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:50 am

If the lineup goes small id have a mchale- stojakovic-james-jones-iverson id have a mismatch at center maybe with hibbert but with peja at PF KG has to respect him and cant play as much help defense on lebron id have jones on the other wing/corner.

A.I. And lebron could run a lot of pick and rolls with lebron being able to hold off pippen on screens better with his larger mass and a.i. Having good passing ability regardless of how much he used it during his prime.


Using his speed in an era with no handchecking and his hairpain turns and dribble ability he could penetrate towards the rim and if hibbert was already there pass it to a rolling lebron in rhythm. If kg helped stojakovic to double lebron he could swing it to peja for an open 3.

Also this whole time hibbert has to deal with mchale low to mid post on the right block who could catch a pass well and use his deep position to find a whole to score in.

Defensively mchale would give up some ground to hibbert but mchale was more of a shot blocker than current chris bosh so he'd have more success as a post defender. You also have iverson on kidd who has fast hands and while being smaller we'll get a few steals, so it's not like he's a huge liability on defense. LeBron will be on pippen and peja will guard garnett leaving eddie jones to chase around miller.


Thats just for one lineup

Also its important to remember:

that yao from 03-05 was a decent to good midrange jumper shooter making 44 percent of his shots from 10-16 and from 39 from 16-23 so he is capable of dragging hibbert out but can also bang against him in the post and take away hibberts soze advantage because his scoring at the rim is 72 percent.

David west was in his athletic prime in 08-10 he was faster yet still as strong as an ox, from 10-16 he shot 42 percent and 16-23 he shot 45 percent. He was a decent finisher and he could still catch alley oops and run the fast break then. Plus the pick and pop strategry.

David west and yao could have enough spacing for lebron and AI drives to the hoop.

Gerald wallace Is an ok finisher but was a great rebounder who player defense at 100 percent all the time, as another athletic player back then he could make good cuts and also punish as another lebron personal wide receiver for dunks, he is my teams version of a pretty rich mans tony allen.

Demarcus cousins finishing ability plus his on court awareness would be good for the limited time he is playing. He gets a lot of steals and can provide good post defense against bigs. He is good at defending the pick and roll as well due to his athleticism. As a playmaker with jones and peja on the 3 pt line and james making cuts/drawing attention himself it really gives him A. Way more room to work in the post or B. 3 point shooters to pass to

Lebron can shoot 3's pair him up with a low post force yao, mchale, cousins to a lesser extent and the guy can drain a 3. By pulling him to the left wing/center where he shoots best he can space the court himself and draw out pippen or garnett depending on who's guarding him.


I'll Update this tommorrow after my classes.

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Re: ATFL Eastern: (1) RSCD3_ vs. (8) Bruh Man 

Post#20 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:21 pm

First, as this draft was playing out live I was most interested in Bruh Man's team out of all 16. I wish he had drafted a little different especially at the end of the draft, but the idea of KG/Pippen/Kidd together makes my basketball pants go crazy. I would love watching that team play defense and get out into transition.

Best player in this series is Lebron and with all respect to KG I dont think its particularly close either. But if you have to face Lebron I love having Pip to be his primary defender with Prince taking his turn and even Kidd in spot matchups. Then you have KG and Hibbert/Nene providing support. Lebron cant be stopped of course, but this team has the best chance possible.

But Lebron does have plenty of scoring options to help carry the load. Love the McHale/West tandom. Eddie Jones was an inspired selection and of course Peja. Dont love Cousins or AI on this team. Would prefer a more mobile defensive big as thats one thing missing from his roster. AI just doesnt seem to fit at all.

I think this is one opponent Bruh Man's team can score enough against. I think they are going to dominate the glass, even with Hibbert not being a great rebounder. He will at least eat space for KG/Pip/Kidd. And I think they are going to find plenty of transistion opportunities. I would love to see them pick up full court because the lack of a true pg can be exploited.

I think this is a pretty close matchup and I could see either team winning, but I think Bruh Man's team wins more times than not. KG/Pippen/Kidd would just wreak so much havoc defensively and they have a chance to at least slow Lebron.

Vote: Bruh Man
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