Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curry?

[Mars_Blackmon]

Melo. History proves your chances of winning a title with a player like melo are a lot more likely then a player like curry.

Another thing, if you are in a game 7 against a team like the heat and they decide to throw Lebron on one of these two. Watch melo back Lebron down and continue to score points. I think when the moment comes down to a big play, I'd rather have Melo with the ball.

It's funny, because Curry is the kind of guy who LeBron can't really guard.

OTOH, Melo has been consistently shut down whenever LeBron has guarded him.

[Mars_Blackmon]

Melo over Curry

Melo is a better scorer, more versatile, can defend, pass and impact the game a lot more than Curry

[MillerTheKiller]

Melo. History proves your chances of winning a title with a player like melo are a lot more likely then a player like curry.

Another thing, if you are in a game 7 against a team like the heat and they decide to throw Lebron on one of these two. Watch melo back Lebron down and continue to score points. I think when the moment comes down to a big play, I'd rather have Melo with the ball.

It's funny, because Curry is the kind of guy who LeBron can't really guard.

OTOH, Melo has been consistently shut down whenever LeBron has guarded him.

Didn't Melo drop like 40 on Lebron this season?

[Buggin Out]

Starting from scratch it's easier to build a team around Melo than Curry. All you need is a couple defensive minded players and a playmaking PG. That's easy

With Curry you would need more players near the same level as Curry or better than Curry. Similar with the Clippers with CP3 and Blake Griffin. And the Clippers aren't even top 5 when it comes to title contenders

IMO it's just harder to win if your PG is you're primary playmaker and scorer.

[therealbig3]

Melo. History proves your chances of winning a title with a player like melo are a lot more likely then a player like curry.

Another thing, if you are in a game 7 against a team like the heat and they decide to throw Lebron on one of these two. Watch melo back Lebron down and continue to score points. I think when the moment comes down to a big play, I'd rather have Melo with the ball.

It's funny, because Curry is the kind of guy who LeBron can't really guard.

OTOH, Melo has been consistently shut down whenever LeBron has guarded him.

What? Melo averages near his career averages when facing Lebron and in head to head matchups against Lebron has a 11-7 advantage over him. Also Lebron shoots lower than his averages when facing Melo

OTOH Curry has a losing record against Lebron, and Lebron is averaging 30 PPG on 54% shooting against Curry's teams.

Over his career, sure, Melo may have put up better numbers earlier...but in their recent matchups, LeBron has done a fantastic job of holding down Melo. And some of Melo's numbers are still skewed, because Battier guards Melo a lot of the time, who doesn't do a good job on him. In their playoff matchup in 2012, Melo was basically doing all of his work against Battier...whenever LeBron defended him, I think Melo shot like 29%.

LeBron has rarely defended Curry...but Curry is not the kind of guy that LeBron would be able to defend well anyway. When LeBron has defended PGs, he's defended guys like Rose and Parker and Westbrook...guys without reliable jumpers who preferred to attack the basket, so he was able to use his size and strength to deter them from making shots and concede the jumper to them. If he tries to concede the jumper to Curry, he'd get eaten alive. And I really doubt LeBron would be able to hang with Curry on the perimeter if he tried to play up on him. Curry would shake him pretty easily and get the jumper off anyway, or go right around him.

[therealbig3]

Melo. History proves your chances of winning a title with a player like melo are a lot more likely then a player like curry.

Another thing, if you are in a game 7 against a team like the heat and they decide to throw Lebron on one of these two. Watch melo back Lebron down and continue to score points. I think when the moment comes down to a big play, I'd rather have Melo with the ball.

It's funny, because Curry is the kind of guy who LeBron can't really guard.

OTOH, Melo has been consistently shut down whenever LeBron has guarded him.

Didn't Melo drop like 40 on Lebron this season?

No.

Didn't LeBron shut Melo down in their last playoff matchup?

And Melo seems to go OFF whenever Battier guards him, and clearly plays a lot worse whenever LeBron guards him. I'd love to see Melo's percentages when LeBron guards him vs when Battier guards him, if anyone could find them. I know there was a HUGE discrepancy during the playoff series...Melo went from shooting in the high 40s against Battier to sub-30% against LeBron, or something similar.

[bbms]

Curry is a better team player than Melo. When you're not a bonafide MVP-caliber, you'd better be a great player that fit multiple scenarios of team build. Curry is that guy, Melo isn't.

Proof that Melo doesn't have that kind of versatility is that the Nuggets got better with Melo departure and the Knicks got worse the season they got Melo. Because he doesn't really adapt himself to any team, but imposes the team to mold after his game, because of his ball-stopping, iso-heavy nature.

[E-Balla]

Curry is a better team player than Melo. When you're not a bonafide MVP-caliber, you'd better be a great player that fit multiple scenarios of team build. Curry is that guy, Melo isn't.

Is he? I mean both are amazing off ball and willing to try many different roles but I'm not sure if I'd say one is a better team player.

[Clyde Frazier]

It's funny, because Curry is the kind of guy who LeBron can't really guard.

OTOH, Melo has been consistently shut down whenever LeBron has guarded him.

Didn't Melo drop like 40 on Lebron this season?

No.

Didn't LeBron shut Melo down in their last playoff matchup?

And Melo seems to go OFF whenever Battier guards him, and clearly plays a lot worse whenever LeBron guards him. I'd love to see Melo's percentages when LeBron guards him vs when Battier guards him, if anyone could find them. I know there was a HUGE discrepancy during the playoff series...Melo went from shooting in the high 40s against Battier to sub-30% against LeBron, or something similar.

Carmelo has an 11-7 advantage over lebron in the regular season:

http://bkref.com/tiny/Mocsb

His overall #s and shooting percentages against him about about in line with his career #s.

The one time they faced each other in the playoffs, NY essentially didn't have a legit PG for the entire series. The only PG who played the majority of the series was bibby, and he already had 2 feet in retirement. Give him the trio of felton/kidd/prigioni like last season, and he has a far better series against lebron.

[therealbig3]

Carmelo has an 11-7 advantage over lebron in the regular season:

http://bkref.com/tiny/Mocsb

His overall #s and shooting percentages against him about about in line with his career #s.

The one time they faced each other in the playoffs, NY essentially didn't have a legit PG for the entire series. The only PG who played the majority of the series was bibby, and he already had 2 feet in retirement. Give him the trio of felton/kidd/prigioni like last season, and he has a far better series against lebron.

But that wasn't stopping him from lighting up Battier, who was a very good defender in his own right. But as soon as LeBron switched onto him, his shots were more contested, he had a harder time getting to where he wanted, and he was catching the ball further out than he wanted to. And as a result, his shooting numbers plummeted. I understand he had a worse team, so I'm not going to criticize him for not playing well or for losing that series...but when your shooting gets so much worse when a specific defender starts guarding you, after you had been having your way against the other defender (who was far from a bum on defense), I'm going to say it's a bad matchup for him.

And I'm still trying to figure out the relevancy of H2H record...isn't that a team stat?

[Clyde Frazier]

Carmelo has an 11-7 advantage over lebron in the regular season:

http://bkref.com/tiny/Mocsb

His overall #s and shooting percentages against him about about in line with his career #s.

The one time they faced each other in the playoffs, NY essentially didn't have a legit PG for the entire series. The only PG who played the majority of the series was bibby, and he already had 2 feet in retirement. Give him the trio of felton/kidd/prigioni like last season, and he has a far better series against lebron.

But that wasn't stopping him from lighting up Battier, who was a very good defender in his own right. But as soon as LeBron switched onto him, his shots were more contested, he had a harder time getting to where he wanted, and he was catching the ball further out than he wanted to.

And I'm still trying to figure out the relevancy of H2H record...isn't that a team stat?

Give me a break. If that record was reversed i'm positive you'd use that against carmelo. Deny it all you want, though.

Not even going to acknowledge how much better carmelo plays with competent PG play? It's like night and day.

It's not out of the question that a 33 yr old battier wasn't as good of a defender as he was in prior seasons. Reputation goes a long way in this league.

[Clyde Frazier]

Curry is a better team player than Melo. When you're not a bonafide MVP-caliber, you'd better be a great player that fit multiple scenarios of team build. Curry is that guy, Melo isn't.

Proof that Melo doesn't have that kind of versatility is that the Nuggets got better with Melo departure and the Knicks got worse the season they got Melo. Because he doesn't really adapt himself to any team, but imposes the team to mold after his game, because of his ball-stopping, iso-heavy nature.

Please, please tell me you're trolling. Everything you just said is factually incorrect. Who finished 3rd in MVP voting last season? Which team has advanced to the 2nd round since the trade, NY or DEN?

[therealbig3]

Give me a break. If that record was reversed i'm positive you'd use that against carmelo. Deny it all you want, though.

Well, alright, you seem to have your mind made up.

But I'm pretty sure I have a history of begrudging the use of team success as an argument for anything in a player comparison. You can ask anyone who's familiar with me as a poster.

[Buggin Out]

It's funny, because Curry is the kind of guy who LeBron can't really guard.

OTOH, Melo has been consistently shut down whenever LeBron has guarded him.

What? Melo averages near his career averages when facing Lebron and in head to head matchups against Lebron has a 11-7 advantage over him. Also Lebron shoots lower than his averages when facing Melo

OTOH Curry has a losing record against Lebron, and Lebron is averaging 30 PPG on 54% shooting against Curry's teams.

Over his career, sure, Melo may have put up better numbers earlier...but in their recent matchups, LeBron has done a fantastic job of holding down Melo. And some of Melo's numbers are still skewed, because Battier guards Melo a lot of the time, who doesn't do a good job on him. In their playoff matchup in 2012, Melo was basically doing all of his work against Battier...whenever LeBron defended him, I think Melo shot like 29%.

LeBron has rarely defended Curry...but Curry is not the kind of guy that LeBron would be able to defend well anyway. When LeBron has defended PGs, he's defended guys like Rose and Parker and Westbrook...guys without reliable jumpers who preferred to attack the basket, so he was able to use his size and strength to deter them from making shots and concede the jumper to them. If he tries to concede the jumper to Curry, he'd get eaten alive. And I really doubt LeBron would be able to hang with Curry on the perimeter if he tried to play up on him. Curry would shake him pretty easily and get the jumper off anyway, or go right around him.

So why doesn't Lebron guard Melo the whole game if he does such a better than Battier at it?

There can only be 3 possible reasons for this.
1. The Heat are afraid he will get in foul trouble
2. Don't want him to get tired
3. Don't think Lebron can guard Melo

Either way if Melo is shooting in the "high 40's" like you say on Battier then the fact that Lebron can't or doesn't guard Melo is good enough reason that Melo would be better a better option than Curry to face Lebron since Melo completely neutralizes the defensive impact of Lebron.

Also yeah while Curry is a better shooter than Rose, Westbrook and Parker he is not nearly as athletic or quick as though guys and Lebron, if focused could easily guard Curry and deny his jumpshot and penetration.

Melo on the other hand can take Lebron one on one

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McegvlxrsP8[/youtube]

In this game Lebron guarded Melo the whole game because Battier was injured. You can see in this video that Lebron can not really hang with Melo and that, unlike Curry, Melo can easily shoot over and/or drive around Lebron.

Btw Melo's number for this game was 29/8/5 on 50% shooting, a little more than the 29% you are suggesting that Lebron holds Melo to.

[Clyde Frazier]

Give me a break. If that record was reversed i'm positive you'd use that against carmelo. Deny it all you want, though.

Well, alright, you seem to have your mind made up.

But I'm pretty sure I have a history of begrudging the use of team success as an argument for anything in a player comparison. You can ask anyone who's familiar with me as a poster.

Your original statement:

"Melo has been consistently shut down whenever LeBron has guarded him."

It's just completely exaggerated, and shows a predisposed negative opinion of carmelo. Seems pretty reasonable that you'd hold it against carmelo if he additionally had a losing record against lebron.

[bbms]

Curry is a better team player than Melo. When you're not a bonafide MVP-caliber, you'd better be a great player that fit multiple scenarios of team build. Curry is that guy, Melo isn't.

Proof that Melo doesn't have that kind of versatility is that the Nuggets got better with Melo departure and the Knicks got worse the season they got Melo. Because he doesn't really adapt himself to any team, but imposes the team to mold after his game, because of his ball-stopping, iso-heavy nature.

Please, please tell me you're trolling. Everything you just said is factually incorrect. Who finished 3rd in MVP voting last season? Which team has advanced to the 2nd round since the trade, NY or DEN?

I was talking strictly about the short run, not the long one after the Knicks overpaid half the league to play for them, right?

Melo was traded on February 22th of 2011. They were 33-25 (57%). They went 17-7 after that (70%) finishing with a 50-32 record (61%), playing for the second-toughest conference in the league with 3 45+ wins teams. On the other hand, Knicks went 13-14 after they traded for Melo that year, and finished 42-40. They had a better record off Melo.

The season after, 2011-12, Nuggets went 38-28 and the Knicks 36-30.

It took almost two seasons for the Knicks surpass the Nuggets record-wise, right? No. That day never happened, last season the Knicks won 54 games, and the Nuggets won 57, on a stronger conference.

Don't make me laugh, Knicks faced an old, washed up, Rondo-less Celtics to get past the First Round. Eastern Conference is a joke these days.

Now tell me again, what is factually incorrect? Well, all I can say is that there's no glory being third in MVP voting when: 1st - you're so far off the second you didn't get any serious recognition for being at the race. 2nd - when you are in the center of the world's biggest media.

[therealbig3]

I said LeBron held Melo to 29% in the playoff series, not all the time.

And I think the Heat don't guard Melo with LeBron all the time, because they need him to have energy for offense. Battier is exclusively out there for 3s and defense, so he can commit 100% of his energy to guarding Melo...LeBron doesn't have that luxury, so yeah, Spo only uses him for stretches on Melo.

But yeah, Melo got the better of LeBron's defense last time they matched up. Sometimes a great offensive player will beat great defense (if you can call it that...LeBron has been blatantly coasting this year)...let's see how Melo does in the rest of the matchups with the Heat this season and see if it holds up.

And with regards to Curry...he's still quicker than LeBron, and he's a great and crafty ball handler who can create separation. And he's an expert at using screens to get freed up. I don't think he'd have a problem getting his shot off against LeBron.

[Torres]

Steph by far.

[Buggin Out]

Curry is a better team player than Melo. When you're not a bonafide MVP-caliber, you'd better be a great player that fit multiple scenarios of team build. Curry is that guy, Melo isn't.

Proof that Melo doesn't have that kind of versatility is that the Nuggets got better with Melo departure and the Knicks got worse the season they got Melo. Because he doesn't really adapt himself to any team, but imposes the team to mold after his game, because of his ball-stopping, iso-heavy nature.

Please, please tell me you're trolling. Everything you just said is factually incorrect. Who finished 3rd in MVP voting last season? Which team has advanced to the 2nd round since the trade, NY or DEN?

I was talking strictly about the short run, not the long one after the Knicks overpaid half the league to play for them, right?

Melo was traded on February 22th of 2011. They were 33-25 (57%). They went 17-7 after that (70%) finishing with a 50-32 record (61%), playing for the second-toughest conference in the league with 3 45+ wins teams. On the other hand, Knicks went 13-14 after they traded for Melo that year, and finished 42-40. They had a better record off Melo.

The season after, 2011-12, Nuggets went 38-28 and the Knicks 36-30.

It took almost two seasons for the Knicks surpass the Nuggets record-wise, right? No. That day never happened, last season the Knicks won 54 games, and the Nuggets won 57, on a stronger conference.

Don't make me laugh, Knicks faced an old, washed up, Rondo-less Celtics to get past the First Round. Eastern Conference is a joke these days.

And the Nuggets faced a lower seeded team in the Warriors who lost their 2nd best player in the 1st game.

Also the main reason the Nuggets had a good record was because of their home court advantage as well as the pace they played out. They literally ran teams out of the building, especially a lot of teams coming off of B2B and West coast trips. Their away record was way below average.

[Buggin Out]

I said LeBron held Melo to 29% in the playoff series, not all the time.

And I think the Heat don't guard Melo with LeBron all the time, because they need him to have energy for offense. Battier is exclusively out there for 3s and defense, so he can commit 100% of his energy to guarding Melo...LeBron doesn't have that luxury, so yeah, Spo only uses him for stretches on Melo.

But yeah, Melo got the better of LeBron's defense last time they matched up. Sometimes a great offensive player will beat great defense (if you can call it that...LeBron has been blatantly coasting this year)...let's see how Melo does in the rest of the matchups with the Heat this season and see if it holds up.

And with regards to Curry...he's still quicker than LeBron, and he's a great and crafty ball handler who can create separation. And he's an expert at using screens to get freed up. I don't think he'd have a problem getting his shot off against LeBron.

You don't even have to wait till the next matchup. You can look at all the past stats those two have put up as well as the team record against each other. The only reason I pointed out the last game was because it was the only game Lebron guarded Melo the whole game. And it is hard for anyone to guard Melo not just Lebron.

Their is no one in the league that can lock up Melo as their is no one who can lock up Lebron. Melo can beat himself though when his shot is off or he is doing to much which causes fatigue. He is better to face Lebron than Curry