Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curry?

[bbms]

Also the main reason the Nuggets had a good record was because of their home court advantage as well as the pace they played out. They literally ran teams out of the building, especially a lot of teams coming off of B2B and West coast trips. Their away record was way below average.

And? You're just giving confirmation. Melo didn't allow them to play the style that suits them better.

[Buggin Out]

Also the main reason the Nuggets had a good record was because of their home court advantage as well as the pace they played out. They literally ran teams out of the building, especially a lot of teams coming off of B2B and West coast trips. Their away record was way below average.

And? You're just giving confirmation. Melo didn't allow them to play the style that suits them better.

What is the point of playing a style that doesn't give you wins in the post season? Unless you think regular season wins are the end all in sports?

[therealbig3]

I do think it's a legitimate argument though to point out that the Nuggets may have had impressive regular seasons without Melo over the last 3 years...but they've also disappointed in the playoffs for the last 3 years as well. And as part of their losses, the lack of a legitimate half court offense has been pretty apparent. Melo would have certainly helped them, and I think they would have had a better chance of advancing if they had him in any of their last 3 playoff matchups.

[Clyde Frazier]

Curry is a better team player than Melo. When you're not a bonafide MVP-caliber, you'd better be a great player that fit multiple scenarios of team build. Curry is that guy, Melo isn't.

Proof that Melo doesn't have that kind of versatility is that the Nuggets got better with Melo departure and the Knicks got worse the season they got Melo. Because he doesn't really adapt himself to any team, but imposes the team to mold after his game, because of his ball-stopping, iso-heavy nature.

Please, please tell me you're trolling. Everything you just said is factually incorrect. Who finished 3rd in MVP voting last season? Which team has advanced to the 2nd round since the trade, NY or DEN?

I was talking strictly about the short run, not the long one after the Knicks overpaid half the league to play for them, right?

Melo was traded on February 22th of 2011. They were 33-25 (57%). They went 17-7 after that (70%) finishing with a 50-32 record (61%), playing for the second-toughest conference in the league with 3 45+ wins teams. On the other hand, Knicks went 13-14 after they traded for Melo that year, and finished 42-40. They had a better record off Melo.

The season after, 2011-12, Nuggets went 38-28 and the Knicks 36-30.

It took almost two seasons for the Knicks surpass the Nuggets record-wise, right? No. That day never happened, last season the Knicks won 54 games, and the Nuggets won 57, on a stronger conference.

Don't make me laugh, Knicks faced an old, washed up, Rondo-less Celtics to get past the First Round. Eastern Conference is a joke these days.

Now tell me again, what is factually incorrect? Well, all I can say is that there's no glory being third in MVP voting when: 1st - you're so far off the second you didn't get any serious recognition for being at the race. 2nd - when you are in the center of the world's biggest media.

LeBron's the best player on the planet, and there's a still a large gap between him and anyone else in the league. Without the major durant narrative of stepping up without westbrook, voter fatigue would really be tested this season.

Carmelo finished 3rd in MVP voting. That's MVP caliber. He's a top 10 player and has been for a while now.

Success is measured by how far you go in the playoffs, not the regular season. The nuggets still failed to get out of the first round as a higher seed last season, and they're on the outside of the playoffs looking in this season. The knicks mess of a season this yr has been in spite of carmelo, not because of him. He's barely had a full roster around him the entire year. Anyone paying close enough attention would realize that.

[bbms]

Also the main reason the Nuggets had a good record was because of their home court advantage as well as the pace they played out. They literally ran teams out of the building, especially a lot of teams coming off of B2B and West coast trips. Their away record was way below average.

And? You're just giving confirmation. Melo didn't allow them to play the style that suits them better.

What is the point of playing a style that doesn't give you wins in the post season? Unless you think regular season wins are the end all in sports?

Do you think Nuggets would be better or worse if they were playing EC teams in the Playoffs?

Please, please tell me you're trolling. Everything you just said is factually incorrect. Who finished 3rd in MVP voting last season? Which team has advanced to the 2nd round since the trade, NY or DEN?

I was talking strictly about the short run, not the long one after the Knicks overpaid half the league to play for them, right?

Melo was traded on February 22th of 2011. They were 33-25 (57%). They went 17-7 after that (70%) finishing with a 50-32 record (61%), playing for the second-toughest conference in the league with 3 45+ wins teams. On the other hand, Knicks went 13-14 after they traded for Melo that year, and finished 42-40. They had a better record off Melo.

The season after, 2011-12, Nuggets went 38-28 and the Knicks 36-30.

It took almost two seasons for the Knicks surpass the Nuggets record-wise, right? No. That day never happened, last season the Knicks won 54 games, and the Nuggets won 57, on a stronger conference.

Don't make me laugh, Knicks faced an old, washed up, Rondo-less Celtics to get past the First Round. Eastern Conference is a joke these days.

Now tell me again, what is factually incorrect? Well, all I can say is that there's no glory being third in MVP voting when: 1st - you're so far off the second you didn't get any serious recognition for being at the race. 2nd - when you are in the center of the world's biggest media.

LeBron's the best player on the planet, and there's a still a large gap between him and anyone else in the league. Without the major durant narrative of stepping up without westbrook, voter fatigue would really be tested this season.

Carmelo finished 3rd in MVP voting. That's MVP caliber. He's a top 10 player and has been for a while now.

Success is measured by how far you go in the playoffs, not the regular season. The nuggets still failed to get out of the first round as a higher seed last season, and they're on the outside of the playoffs looking in this season. The knicks mess of a season this yr has been in spite of carmelo, not because of him. He's barely had a full roster around him the entire year. Anyone paying close enough attention would realize that.

No. Durant has been way better than Melo since 2010, and last season the gap went bigger despite Melo having close to his best statistical season in his carreer. Also, voter's fadigue is an argument valid when you have a worse season than your peer and still win. Durant is no Barkley to Jordan in 93, he is having a better season than Durant, but I just don't know why did you bring this up. You're confusing.

To finish in 3rd in MVP voting doesn't mean you're having a MVP-caliber season, just means you rated good in a popularity contest. Rose actually won an MVP without having a MVP-caliber season. Aldridge/George will probably be 3rd in voting this season without having a MVP-caliber season. A MVP-caliber season occurs when you put up a season on the same level or better than many MVPs of the past, and this never happened to Melo.

Success is measured to how deep you get into playoffs, but competition matters. I guess you probably don't remember who the Celtics beat in 2011's first round, but you know who beat the Nuggets that year. Does that makes the Celtics more successful than the Nuggets that season? Both weren't championship material that year and got slaughtered by true contenders. Also, the Warriors in last season playoffs played much better ball than the Knicks.

Oh, and I'm not saying that it is Melo's fault the Knicks are a bad team, don't put words in my mouth. I'm saying it's entirely Knicks' FO fault because they made huge commitment to players that are not going to take them to the championship ever. Melo is just one of them. I doubt the Knicks will ever be able to give Melo a supporting cast as good as Nuggets did in 09 and 10 and that fits Melo's style that well. They didn't win anything that year, and probably Melo won't ever win anything unless he takes on a lesser role on teams offense.

This is why Curry is the superior player going forward: it's just more natural for him to take the lesser role. Since neither of them can give you the championship, you take the one that can help the guy to give you the championship. This one is not Melo.

Curry.

[Buggin Out]

And? You're just giving confirmation. Melo didn't allow them to play the style that suits them better.

What is the point of playing a style that doesn't give you wins in the post season? Unless you think regular season wins are the end all in sports?

Do you think Nuggets would be better or worse if they were playing EC teams in the Playoffs?

What? Bringing hypotheticals in this discussion really disrupts your argument.

If you really want me to answer this I believe in the playoffs last year the Nuggets were worse than the Heat, Knicks, Pacers, Bulls, Nets and would have lost in a 7 game series to those teams. Heat, Pacers, and Bulls, because the defense and slower tempo would have taken away the Nuggets main strength. Knicks and Nets because those teams had better players and more offensive weapons. They might be able to beat the hawks though.

[bbms]

What is the point of playing a style that doesn't give you wins in the post season? Unless you think regular season wins are the end all in sports?

Do you think Nuggets would be better or worse if they were playing EC teams in the Playoffs?

What? Bringing hypotheticals in this discussion really disrupts your argument.

If you really want me to answer this I believe in the playoffs last year the Nuggets were worse than the Heat, Knicks, Pacers, Bulls, Nets and would have lost in a 7 game series to those teams. Heat, Pacers, and Bulls, because the defense and slower tempo would have taken away the Nuggets main strength. Knicks and Nets because those teams had better players and more offensive weapons. They might be able to beat the hawks though.

What? Isn't this whole topic just about hypotheticals? Ok, I brought one fact you might not want to hear, if you bothered to read: Nuggets lost to a team that played better basketball in the playoffs than the Knicks. GSW shown strong basketball, while Knicks was this close to a sweep in the Semifinals.

[Buggin Out]

Do you think Nuggets would be better or worse if they were playing EC teams in the Playoffs?

What? Bringing hypotheticals in this discussion really disrupts your argument.

If you really want me to answer this I believe in the playoffs last year the Nuggets were worse than the Heat, Knicks, Pacers, Bulls, Nets and would have lost in a 7 game series to those teams. Heat, Pacers, and Bulls, because the defense and slower tempo would have taken away the Nuggets main strength. Knicks and Nets because those teams had better players and more offensive weapons. They might be able to beat the hawks though.

What? Isn't this whole topic just about hypotheticals? Ok, I brought one fact you might not want to hear, if you bothered to read: Nuggets lost to a team that played better basketball in the playoffs than the Knicks. GSW shown strong basketball, while Knicks was this close to a sweep in the Semifinals.

Oh I guess a "almost sweep" now is taking a team to 6 with 3 of your top 4 players injured and being one Hibbert block from forcing a game 7. I guess Golden State got almost swept by the Spurs and the Nuggets got almost swept by Golden State.

Also what do you mean played "better basketball." No sh*t the team that won played better basketball then the other team that is why the team lost. Also the playoffs are all about match ups and I explained why the teams in the east would beat the Nuggets. The Nuggets were never going anywhere, Houston, Clippers and Grizzlies would have all beat the Nuggets as well. They were the definition of a pretender.

[Cowbulls]

If the bulls get Melo next year, I think

Rose
Butler
Melo
Taj
Noah

Has a way better shot at winning then

Curry
Rose
Butler
Taj
Noah

When the playoffs roll around and them defenders start getting a little nastier, them bigger dudes tend to prevail. Melo all day and quite frankly it's not a hard decision.

[Woodwarrior419]

Success is measured by how far you go in the playoffs, not the regular season. The nuggets still failed to get out of the first round as a higher seed last season, and they're on the outside of the playoffs looking in this season. The knicks mess of a season this yr has been in spite of carmelo, not because of him. He's barely had a full roster around him the entire year. Anyone paying close enough attention would realize that.

This is how I feel about it.

[timlin500]

Curry.

[kulo]

If the bulls get Melo next year, I think

Rose
Butler
Melo
Taj
Noah

Has a way better shot at winning then

Curry
Rose
Butler
Taj
Noah

When the playoffs roll around and them defenders start getting a little nastier, them bigger dudes tend to prevail. Melo all day and quite frankly it's not a hard decision.

What a **** way to compare them

[Mr MoJo Risin]

Melo easily!

He is one of the most potent scorers in the game. He is a pure scorer. He can score on the outside or inside. Put him with some talent on his team and they be consider title contenders.

Melo is much more durable also than Curry.

[Cowbulls]

If the bulls get Melo next year, I think

Rose
Butler
Melo
Taj
Noah

Has a way better shot at winning then

Curry
Rose
Butler
Taj
Noah

When the playoffs roll around and them defenders start getting a little nastier, them bigger dudes tend to prevail. Melo all day and quite frankly it's not a hard decision.

What a **** way to compare them

Why? What if the bulls were the team you happened to build around the 2 players? Maybe this thread is irrelevant due to the fact that nobody knows the actual team that would be built around them. Although if it were a random draw of 12 players being thrown on these guys teams, my bet is more often then not, you would think like you did with the bulls team as the example, that the team with Melo on it would be better.

[Quotatious]

Curry for me. They're players of basically the same caliber and they have similar strengths (scoring, shooting) and weaknesses (defense), but Curry is one of the greatest shooters of all-time, so he's truly elite at least in one area. Melo is an excellent scorer, no doubt about that, but he's not on the level of the 'cream of the crop' of scorers in league's history (Jordan, Kareem, Shaq, Dirk, Barkley, Durant, LeBron, Dantley, Kobe), while Curry may actually be the best shooter in NBA history. At least he's clearly on the same level as Nash, Dirk, Ray or Reggie.

I think Curry's game is a better fit on a stacked team because he's more comfortable as a facilitator than Melo, and he's a lower USG% player. Guys like Carmelo, who are very high USG% players, but not really among the true all-time greats in terms of scoring, doesn't give much promise as far as building a really great team around them, a championship team.

[acrossthecourt]

Melo. History proves your chances of winning a title with a player like melo are a lot more likely then a player like curry.

Another thing, if you are in a game 7 against a team like the heat and they decide to throw Lebron on one of these two. Watch melo back Lebron down and continue to score points. I think when the moment comes down to a big play, I'd rather have Melo with the ball.

What does that even mean? What are the similar players to Melo who have won?

You won't be a championship contender with either player as the clear best player on your team (a point which would also be extended to Chris Paul).

So my assumption is that I'd have a couple of other high quality players as well. And I would definitely rather have Curry on my team because I think he would be a more complementary fit with those other stars than Melo would.

Plus, Carmelo is an elite scorer, but Curry is just better at it than he is. This year, curry has a lower USG%, better ORtg, DRtg, TS%, efg%. He's scoring more per minute while shooting less.

A few points about this post:


That scoring crap is wrong. Melo is scoring 24.8 points per 36 and Curry is scoring 22.6. Melo also plays on a slower paced team and he plays 39 minutes a game (fatigue is real).

DRTG is a team number that means ABSOLUTELY nothing.

Statistically (note: this study was done in 08) for every 1% increase in usage percentage, efficiency is expected to drop 1.25 ppp. That means Melo's 31.7 USG% in 39.2 minutes along with a 112.4 ORTG is more impressive than Curry's 112.9 ORTG along with a 28.2 USG% since Curry's expected ORTG at Melo's usage would be 108.5.

Also here's some fun numbers for anyone saying that might not hold up. Last year Curry had a 115.1 ORTG on 26.34 USG. Use that 1% increase = 1.25 decrease to calculate his expected efficiency at 28.24 USG (what it is this season) and you get an expected 112.7 ORTG (his actual is 112.9). Not saying its perfect or right but it shows how impressive Melo's efficiency is this season.

To answer the thread I'd take Curry. It's age and contract vs health and (barely) being better. I'd like the extra years with Curry to try different kinds of teams.

That study's been updated to include multiple seasons, instead of one partial season.

[E-Balla]

That study's been updated to include multiple seasons, instead of one partial season.

Where has it been updated? I haven't searched for it in awhile and I'd like to see the changes brought on by last season.

[JordansBulls]

Say you were a GM starting a team from scratch and you had the choice of Melo or Steph to build a team around, which would you rather have and why?

Take everything (age, injuries) into consideration, except for contract, assume they are to be paid evenly.

Who is the better player to build a team around?

Melo hands down. One guy is a superstar and the other barely even a star.

[Cowbulls]

Melo. History proves your chances of winning a title with a player like melo are a lot more likely then a player like curry.

Another thing, if you are in a game 7 against a team like the heat and they decide to throw Lebron on one of these two. Watch melo back Lebron down and continue to score points. I think when the moment comes down to a big play, I'd rather have Melo with the ball.

What does that even mean? What are the similar players to Melo who have won?[/quote]

6'3 point guards don't win finals MVP as much as 6'8 forwards do.

[Mars_Blackmon]

I think if you put both in ideal situations you gotta take Melo

I always said only one man can stop LeBron's reign and thats Melo thats why LeBron is the only man in the NBA I'd build a team around over Melo