Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curry?

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Re: Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curr 

Post#101 » by Mars_Blackmon » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:35 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
Mars_Blackmon wrote:you dont watch Melo, you watch box scores :lol:

have a nice day


I love how somehow a player who is only truly exceptional at scoring large amounts is now argued to be someone underrated by stats. Melo does not have a mysterious game. Everybody gets scoring. The tricky part of understanding the game is understanding everything else.


I dont even mention Melo's scoring when discussing him

his skill set is so much more but again you guys watch box scores, you dont watch basketball
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Re: Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curr 

Post#102 » by Doctor MJ » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:44 pm

Mars_Blackmon wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
Mars_Blackmon wrote:you dont watch Melo, you watch box scores :lol:

have a nice day


I love how somehow a player who is only truly exceptional at scoring large amounts is now argued to be someone underrated by stats. Melo does not have a mysterious game. Everybody gets scoring. The tricky part of understanding the game is understanding everything else.


I dont even mention Melo's scoring when discussing him

his skill set is so much more but again you guys watch box scores, you dont watch basketball


That's weird, why wouldn't you be talking about a guys primary focus when discussing him?
"Sure he scored 60, but did you see that one possession where he almost got an assist? Genius!"
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Re: Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curr 

Post#103 » by BlackIce » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:45 pm

GC Pantalones wrote:
BlackIce wrote:
GC Pantalones wrote:Is he physically possessing them? How do you make someone better?

Is this a serious question? There are countless examples but the primary role of a point guard is to put guys in positions they can succeed in.

There is also the "double/triple team" aspect, a star can attract attention making it easier for the other guys on the team to score. A system can also do this as well (Spurs - Parker/Duncan do it but the Spurs system maximizes the strengths of role player like Danny Green for instance), and a player can (Miami - Lebron).

Carmelo attracts a lot of attention from the opposing defense but he isn't a willing passer.

"But NYK put no one around him, he has no one to pass to!"

Lebron was in a similar, if not worst situation in Cleveland but he was still an elite playmaker. Pierce had his best assist per game season in 03-04 - his best teammate was Ricky Davis and this was pre-Al Jefferson. Usually when stars have less help they up their usage and don't go into iso mode every time down the floor.

Curry shares a similar ability to draw the defense due to his (arguable) GOAT shooting ability and he is 2nd in APG, only Paul is averaging more assists. Even if you tried to argue Melo is a SF and Curry is a PG, of course Curry is a better passer...

1. Melo actually has a higher usage rate
2. Curry relative to his peers (PG) is an elite passer - Melo relative to his peers (SF) is a mediocre passer

Code: Select all

1   LeBron James, SF   MIA   43   36.9   278   6.5   151   3.5   8.4   1.84
2   Nicolas Batum, SF   POR   45   35.7   252   5.6   107   2.4   7.5   2.36
3   Kevin Durant, SF   OKC   45   38.1   233   5.2   151   3.4   6.5   1.54
4   Evan Turner, SF   PHI   44   35.6   164   3.7   131   3.0   5.0   1.25
5   Chandler Parsons, SF   HOU   41   38.3   145   3.5   83   2.0   4.4   1.75
6   Paul George, SF   IND   43   36.3   148   3.4   117   2.7   4.6   1.26
7   Josh Smith, SF   DET   44   35.3   145   3.3   109   2.5   4.5   1.33
8   Carmelo Anthony, SF   NY   41   39.2   126   3.1   93   2.3   3.8   1.35


Code: Select all

1   Chris Paul, PG   LAC   34   34.6   380   11.2   85   2.5   15.5   4.47
2   Stephen Curry, PG   GS   42   37.8   391   9.3   175   4.2   11.8   2.23
3   Ty Lawson, PG   DEN   41   35.7   365   8.9   125   3.0   12.0   2.92
4   John Wall, PG   WSH   43   37.0   365   8.5   153   3.6   11.0   2.39
5   Ricky Rubio, PG   MIN   44   31.6   362   8.2   118   2.7   12.5   3.07
    Brandon Jennings, PG   DET   42   35.9   343   8.2   132   3.1   10.9   2.60
7   Jrue Holiday, PG   NO   34   33.6   268   7.9   105   3.1   11.3   2.55
8   Kyle Lowry, PG   TOR   44   36.3   331   7.5   97   2.2   10.0   3.41



- Melo is playing more minutes then anyone on that list
- Pierce (not listed) is 9 on that list, he is averaging the same about of assists per game while playing 9.6 less minutes. Keep in mind a quarter is 12 minutes.

The only situation Carmelo really shined in was when he represented the USA in the Olympics, where he wasn't the 1st option or the focus of the team - he was a complimentary piece (obviously an elite one). I hope he goes to Chicago and Rose gets healthy but as of now I don't see how you could take Melo over Curry. I haven't really seen a compelling argument FOR Melo, just a few against Curry and those are mainly durability concerns.

Saying anyone makes their teammates better is dumb. Makes them look better can only go so far and Melo definetly makes his teammates look better if that's what you mean.

Also I hope your joking in this post. Assists definetly do not start to cover helping your teammates. Would you say Dirk doesn't help his teammates?


1. "Saying anyone makes their teammates better is dumb."

Playing with Magic Johnson vs. Raymond Felton = a wash? I'm using an extreme example because you didn't really provide an explanation to your point so I'm assuming you think that NBA players play and produce in a vacuum with no correlation to each other. That's basically what you are saying, and calling me dumb doesn't really add anything constructive to the case you're making. It's childish.

2." Makes them look better can only go so far and Melo definetly makes his teammates look better if that's what you mean."

You just contradicted the first point you made - makes them look better can only go so far - indicates you are aware that a teammate can make another teammate look better/produce better/play better, etc. you are just saying there are limitations. You've been making the case that it's absolute - Is he physically possessing them? How do you make someone better? - so depending on which of your arguments you choose to back my response would differ. If you are saying Magic Johnson can't turn Andrea Bargnani into Dirk Nowitzki then I agree. But that wasn't your original point.

3. "Would you say Dirk doesn't help his teammates?"

- Dirk is actually more similar to Curry in terms of his effect on an offense due to his spacing ability and unselfishness.

- Dirk averaged 3.5 apg in his best "passing season", Melo averaged 3.6 apg in his best "passing season": this season Dirk is averaging 2.9 apg to Melo's 3.1, however Melo has a higher usage% and is playing about 7 more minutes per game.

- Dirk is a big man, so generally a ball dominant wing would be a more natural playmaker even though Dirk isn't a traditional big

*shouldn't you be saying Dirk doesn't help his teammates? I mean I wouldn't call you dumb but read the first line you wrote

Am I saying APG is the be all end all? No. Certainly not, Harden is a 5 + apg guy and so is Nicolas Batum but one does it within the flow of the offense, one is more ball dominant. There is the "hockey assist" aspect as well, and numerous others but by any measure Melo isn't a natural playmaker, nor is he a willing passer. He can make great passes and has vision though, but he always reverts back to iso ball.
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Re: Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curr 

Post#104 » by Mars_Blackmon » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:46 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
Mars_Blackmon wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
I love how somehow a player who is only truly exceptional at scoring large amounts is now argued to be someone underrated by stats. Melo does not have a mysterious game. Everybody gets scoring. The tricky part of understanding the game is understanding everything else.


I dont even mention Melo's scoring when discussing him

his skill set is so much more but again you guys watch box scores, you dont watch basketball


That's weird, why wouldn't you be talking about a guys primary focus when discussing him?
"Sure he scored 60, but did you see that one possession where he almost got an assist? Genius!"


because there's more to his game than scoring, which is all guys say he can do

Melo can do it all on the court and guys still dont give him credit for his game

they box score watch, they dont watch the games
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Re: Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curr 

Post#105 » by Doctor MJ » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:17 pm

Mars_Blackmon wrote:because there's more to his game than scoring, which is all guys say he can do

Melo can do it all on the court and guys still dont give him credit for his game

they box score watch, they dont watch the games


Please teach me about the fear that Melo strikes into the heart of opposing shooters.
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Re: Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curr 

Post#106 » by MojoPharoah » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:25 pm

Mars_Blackmon wrote:
MojoPharoah wrote:
Mars_Blackmon wrote:
Don't know where you are drawing that conclusion from. KD's taken his already substantial skill-set and added playmaking by taking cues from LeBron and Bird. Don't see that as a flaw, especially when you can see the results of that experimentation have put him on a historic Jordanesque pace.

Besides, both KD & PG can neutralize LeBron's game impact when going H2H


no they cant

PG damn sure can't, Durant if he keeps up this mentality he has lately can probably do it

I'm drawing my conclusion form watching the games, LBJ imposes his will on KD and George he doesn't do the same vs Melo and you can rewatch every game they play Melo gives him the toughest match up of all 3 thats a given


Yes, they can. George has given LBJ battles ever since last postseason and he's only gotten better since. LeBron's been held under 17 twice in the past 3 RS matchups, and PG's essentially played him to a statistical draw this season in 2 matchups: roughly the same amount of ppg on similar efficiency, similar apg, but LeBron has more rebounds.

Meanwhile, when comparing H2H vs LeBron, Durant has a higher PPG(on higher efficiency), RPG, APG, BPG, SPG vs LBJ in the regular season matchups. Since 2007, Melo's team has never held LeBron under 20, while Durant's team has done it 3 times.

In PS matchups (1 5-game series each), Durant scored more on much higher efficiency, rebounded slightly less, had the same apg, but more spg & bpg. Durant was never held below 25 in the entire series, while Melo had 2 sub-20 games(11 & 19) vs MIA. And that was 2 seasons ago, before Durant raised his game even higher.

In conclusion, PG & Durant certainly have a legit case for being rivals for LeBron, and it is certainly also reasonable that they have a BETTER case than Melo.
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Re: Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curr 

Post#107 » by Cowbulls » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:30 pm

therealbig3 wrote:
Cowbulls wrote:Nice so in 10 years 2 pgs won finals mvps...and before those 2 you have to go back 14 years to Thomas for the next time a pgs won a finals mvp... before Thomas you have to go back another 13 years to old Jo Jo White as the next pgs to win a finals mvp. As a matter of fact in the last 40 years did u know that only 8 players 6'5 or shorter has won a nba finals mvp? That means that 80% of the time a finals mvp is 6'6 or taller!

Now you might throw in the comment that center's win a lot and I agree, so ill change my stats...in the last 40 years the finals mvp as been 6'6 - 6'9....20 times. So like I said. I take Melo and its not really that close.


This is just laughable analysis...so players that are similar height are similar players? In what universe does that make sense?


How is it laughable...Being big in the National Basketball Association is a very good thing. So good that it makes Melo better then Curry. Please before you say, " Well does that mean that Joel Anthony is better then Curry" No it doesn't mean that. Melo and Curry are both equal enough at there positions, but when a top defender in the NBA comes to guard a guy on my team, in game 7 of a playoff series with 4 minutes left in the game. I'd rather he be built like Melo more so then like Curry...and as I stated before, history proves that my big guy will prevail much more then your small guy.

I saw this happen to Rose in the playoffs in 2010. When he drove he got hit harder, when they needed to stop him they trapped him and put all the help defense to his side. He was basically small enough to make other players have to make plays. If you put Melo in those shoes, defenses can't bully him because he is just as or bigger then the defenders trying to bully him. Being big in the NBA is such a luxury.

I'm not bashing Curry..the dude is a stud and one of the best in the game, but starting a team with one of these 2 options..taking Melo is easy for me to decide.
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Re: Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curr 

Post#108 » by Mars_Blackmon » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:55 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
Mars_Blackmon wrote:because there's more to his game than scoring, which is all guys say he can do

Melo can do it all on the court and guys still dont give him credit for his game

they box score watch, they dont watch the games


Please teach me about the fear that Melo strikes into the heart of opposing shooters.[/quote
There isn't a single player that strikes fear into anyone on a basketball court

that has nothing to do with Melo's skill set

again watch games, not box scores thank you
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Re: Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curr 

Post#109 » by Buggin Out » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:59 pm

MojoPharoah wrote:
Mars_Blackmon wrote:
MojoPharoah wrote:


no they cant

PG damn sure can't, Durant if he keeps up this mentality he has lately can probably do it

I'm drawing my conclusion form watching the games, LBJ imposes his will on KD and George he doesn't do the same vs Melo and you can rewatch every game they play Melo gives him the toughest match up of all 3 thats a given


Yes, they can. George has given LBJ battles ever since last postseason and he's only gotten better since. LeBron's been held under 17 twice in the past 3 RS matchups, and PG's essentially played him to a statistical draw this season in 2 matchups: roughly the same amount of ppg on similar efficiency, similar apg, but LeBron has more rebounds.

Meanwhile, when comparing H2H vs LeBron, Durant has a higher PPG(on higher efficiency), RPG, APG, BPG, SPG vs LBJ in the regular season matchups. Since 2007, Melo's team has never held LeBron under 20, while Durant's team has done it 3 times.

In PS matchups (1 5-game series each), Durant scored more on much higher efficiency, rebounded slightly less, had the same apg, but more spg & bpg. Durant was never held below 25 in the entire series, while Melo had 2 sub-20 games(11 & 19) vs MIA. And that was 2 seasons ago, before Durant raised his game even higher.

In conclusion, PG & Durant certainly have a legit case for being rivals for LeBron, and it is certainly also reasonable that they have a BETTER case than Melo.

Paul George for his career against Lebron in the Regular season scores 15.5 PPG and shoots 43% from the field against Lebron.

In the post season last year, where PG supposedly "held his own" against Lebron he shot 15 PPG on 43% from the field.

Also if George is such a Lebron stopper how come for their entire matchup Lebron shoots 51% against PG and 41% from 3, compared to shooting just 47% against Carmelo?
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Re: Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curr 

Post#110 » by MojoPharoah » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:01 am

Mars_Blackmon wrote:
MojoPharoah wrote:
Mars_Blackmon wrote:
because he can, he sees double teams far more often than Curry so it opens the floor for his teammates to attack the D

Melo is better than Curry thats not even debatable


Are you serious?

Curry is more efficient as a scorer at a similar volume and a substantially better playmaker while having similar mediocre impact defensively.

Because of his range, Curry sees traps practically out to halfcourt all game long. But the doubles and traps he sees need to be very careful because he's such a tremendous passer, which allows him to contort and twist defenses to a degree Melo has NEVER approached. For just one example, Curry is the biggest reason why Iguodala's shooting a career high from beyond the arc.

The only player in the league who bends opposing Ds to a worse extent is Durant.


you dont watch Melo, you watch box scores :lol:

have a nice day


Actually I watch basketball, while all you apparently watch is Melo. That would be the only thing to explain such a over-inflated opinion like yours. Bottomline, Curry is a comparable scorer to Melo in terms of volume while being superior in efficiency and being a much more prolific playmaker. Curry impacts the game and elevates what would be a subpar team to near contender status, which you'd know if you watched more than MeloBall.

Meanwhile, Melo is a Chucker who rarely passes and scores with mediocre-to-middling efficiency. That is easily seen when you WATCH games, not just the Knicks. Of course, seeing can be deceiving, but the eye-test is backed up by the stats:

Despite a sky-high usage, Melo produces less Assist Opportunities per game(6.5) than such notables like Chandler Parsons, Pau Gasol, Demar Derozen, Will Bynum & Luol Deng, despite playing more mpg than practically all of them. He creates less Assist Opportunities per Min than JR, for crying out loud.

Your argument is flawed, so you might want to rethink your whole process.

G'Day
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Re: Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curr 

Post#111 » by MojoPharoah » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:06 am

Buggin Out wrote:
MojoPharoah wrote:
Mars_Blackmon wrote:
no they cant

PG damn sure can't, Durant if he keeps up this mentality he has lately can probably do it

I'm drawing my conclusion form watching the games, LBJ imposes his will on KD and George he doesn't do the same vs Melo and you can rewatch every game they play Melo gives him the toughest match up of all 3 thats a given


Yes, they can. George has given LBJ battles ever since last postseason and he's only gotten better since. LeBron's been held under 17 twice in the past 3 RS matchups, and PG's essentially played him to a statistical draw this season in 2 matchups: roughly the same amount of ppg on similar efficiency, similar apg, but LeBron has more rebounds.

Meanwhile, when comparing H2H vs LeBron, Durant has a higher PPG(on higher efficiency), RPG, APG, BPG, SPG vs LBJ in the regular season matchups. Since 2007, Melo's team has never held LeBron under 20, while Durant's team has done it 3 times.

In PS matchups (1 5-game series each), Durant scored more on much higher efficiency, rebounded slightly less, had the same apg, but more spg & bpg. Durant was never held below 25 in the entire series, while Melo had 2 sub-20 games(11 & 19) vs MIA. And that was 2 seasons ago, before Durant raised his game even higher.

In conclusion, PG & Durant certainly have a legit case for being rivals for LeBron, and it is certainly also reasonable that they have a BETTER case than Melo.

Paul George for his career against Lebron in the Regular season scores 15.5 PPG and shoots 43% from the field against Lebron.

In the post season last year, where PG supposedly "held his own" against Lebron he shot 15 PPG on 43% from the field.

Also if George is such a Lebron stopper how come for their entire matchup Lebron shoots 51% against PG and 41% from 3, compared to shooting just 47% against Carmelo?


Are you considering PG's entire career, including the period where it was Danny Granger's team? Paul George didn't become a true 2-way superstar until this year. Everybody knows that, which is why his name comes up in MIP. He was solid last year, learning how to be the featured player, but he struggled all year. This season, he's at another level. He barely made the ASG last year, but now he's a darkhorse MVP.

And this season, in two RS matchups, PG & LBJ have comparable scoring numbers on comparable efficiency, despite PG guarding LeBron the entire game while LeBron didn't return the favor. Hence, he can be argued as a rival.
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Re: Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curr 

Post#112 » by Mars_Blackmon » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:06 am

MojoPharoah wrote:
Mars_Blackmon wrote:
MojoPharoah wrote:
Are you serious?

Curry is more efficient as a scorer at a similar volume and a substantially better playmaker while having similar mediocre impact defensively.

Because of his range, Curry sees traps practically out to halfcourt all game long. But the doubles and traps he sees need to be very careful because he's such a tremendous passer, which allows him to contort and twist defenses to a degree Melo has NEVER approached. For just one example, Curry is the biggest reason why Iguodala's shooting a career high from beyond the arc.

The only player in the league who bends opposing Ds to a worse extent is Durant.


you dont watch Melo, you watch box scores :lol:

have a nice day


Actually I watch basketball, while all you apparently watch is Melo. That would be the only thing to explain such a over-inflated opinion like yours. Bottomline, Curry is a comparable scorer to Melo in terms of volume while being superior in efficiency and being a much more prolific playmaker. Curry impacts the game and elevates what would be a subpar team to near contender status, which you'd know if you watched more than MeloBall.

Meanwhile, Melo is a Chucker who rarely passes and scores with mediocre-to-middling efficiency. That is easily seen when you WATCH games, not just the Knicks. Of course, seeing can be deceiving, but the eye-test is backed up by the stats:

Despite a sky-high usage, Melo produces less Assist Opportunities per game(6.5) than such notables like Chandler Parsons, Pau Gasol, Demar Derozen, Will Bynum & Luol Deng, despite playing more mpg than practically all of them. He creates less Assist Opportunities per Min than JR, for crying out loud.

Your argument is flawed, so you might want to rethink your whole process.

G'Day


yup all Melo is is a chucker, thats how I know you dont watch basketball
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Re: Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curr 

Post#113 » by MojoPharoah » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:20 am

Cowbulls wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:
Cowbulls wrote:Nice so in 10 years 2 pgs won finals mvps...and before those 2 you have to go back 14 years to Thomas for the next time a pgs won a finals mvp... before Thomas you have to go back another 13 years to old Jo Jo White as the next pgs to win a finals mvp. As a matter of fact in the last 40 years did u know that only 8 players 6'5 or shorter has won a nba finals mvp? That means that 80% of the time a finals mvp is 6'6 or taller!

Now you might throw in the comment that center's win a lot and I agree, so ill change my stats...in the last 40 years the finals mvp as been 6'6 - 6'9....20 times. So like I said. I take Melo and its not really that close.


This is just laughable analysis...so players that are similar height are similar players? In what universe does that make sense?


How is it laughable...Being big in the National Basketball Association is a very good thing. So good that it makes Melo better then Curry. Please before you say, " Well does that mean that Joel Anthony is better then Curry" No it doesn't mean that. Melo and Curry are both equal enough at there positions, but when a top defender in the NBA comes to guard a guy on my team, in game 7 of a playoff series with 4 minutes left in the game. I'd rather he be built like Melo more so then like Curry...and as I stated before, history proves that my big guy will prevail much more then your small guy.

I saw this happen to Rose in the playoffs in 2010. When he drove he got hit harder, when they needed to stop him they trapped him and put all the help defense to his side. He was basically small enough to make other players have to make plays. If you put Melo in those shoes, defenses can't bully him because he is just as or bigger then the defenders trying to bully him. Being big in the NBA is such a luxury.

I'm not bashing Curry..the dude is a stud and one of the best in the game, but starting a team with one of these 2 options..taking Melo is easy for me to decide.


I think you're underrating Curry's impact, while overrating Melo's, imo.

Considering his range, accuracy and lightning-quick release combined with his passing skills and his drive game, Curry's become a really hard matchup, harder than Melo, imo. You have to stretch your defense so much to contain him that you leave yourself really vulnerable in multiple areas. Its what happened to the Heat this month, same thing happened to the Spurs in the postseason. Melo, otoh, has only once produced a playoff as WS/48 as high or higher than Curry's last season, when he went to the WCF. And he's gotten better. Curry's current WS/48 is higher than any that Melo's produced.

Plus Curry's game is more portable. Both need elite defensive bigs and wings, but Curry can play with either a stretch-4 or post up bigs.
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Re: Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curr 

Post#114 » by Buggin Out » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:23 am

MojoPharoah wrote:
Buggin Out wrote:
MojoPharoah wrote:
Yes, they can. George has given LBJ battles ever since last postseason and he's only gotten better since. LeBron's been held under 17 twice in the past 3 RS matchups, and PG's essentially played him to a statistical draw this season in 2 matchups: roughly the same amount of ppg on similar efficiency, similar apg, but LeBron has more rebounds.

Meanwhile, when comparing H2H vs LeBron, Durant has a higher PPG(on higher efficiency), RPG, APG, BPG, SPG vs LBJ in the regular season matchups. Since 2007, Melo's team has never held LeBron under 20, while Durant's team has done it 3 times.

In PS matchups (1 5-game series each), Durant scored more on much higher efficiency, rebounded slightly less, had the same apg, but more spg & bpg. Durant was never held below 25 in the entire series, while Melo had 2 sub-20 games(11 & 19) vs MIA. And that was 2 seasons ago, before Durant raised his game even higher.

In conclusion, PG & Durant certainly have a legit case for being rivals for LeBron, and it is certainly also reasonable that they have a BETTER case than Melo.

Paul George for his career against Lebron in the Regular season scores 15.5 PPG and shoots 43% from the field against Lebron.

In the post season last year, where PG supposedly "held his own" against Lebron he shot 15 PPG on 43% from the field.

Also if George is such a Lebron stopper how come for their entire matchup Lebron shoots 51% against PG and 41% from 3, compared to shooting just 47% against Carmelo?


Are you considering PG's entire career, including the period where it was Danny Granger's team? Paul George didn't become a true 2-way superstar until this year. Everybody knows that, which is why his name comes up in MIP. He was solid last year, learning how to be the featured player, but he struggled all year. This season, he's at another level. He barely made the ASG last year, but now he's a darkhorse MVP.

And this season, in two RS matchups, PG & LBJ have comparable scoring numbers on comparable efficiency, despite PG guarding LeBron the entire game while LeBron didn't return the favor. Hence, he can be argued as a rival.

Either way if you compare the last two games of PG vs Lebron to the last two of games of Anthony, I'd think you find Melo has the more impressive stats, vs Lebron, unless you just have lower standards for Paul George. Also in the last game Melo put up 29 on 50% shooting against the Heat while guarding Lebron the whole game, while Lebron, because battier was out, guarded Melo the whole time. So yeah I would argue Melo is the better rival and has been for most of Lebron's career.
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Re: Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curr 

Post#115 » by MojoPharoah » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:02 am

Mars_Blackmon wrote:
MojoPharoah wrote:
Mars_Blackmon wrote:
you dont watch Melo, you watch box scores :lol:

have a nice day


Actually I watch basketball, while all you apparently watch is Melo. That would be the only thing to explain such a over-inflated opinion like yours. Bottomline, Curry is a comparable scorer to Melo in terms of volume while being superior in efficiency and being a much more prolific playmaker. Curry impacts the game and elevates what would be a subpar team to near contender status, which you'd know if you watched more than MeloBall.

Meanwhile, Melo is a Chucker who rarely passes and scores with mediocre-to-middling efficiency. That is easily seen when you WATCH games, not just the Knicks. Of course, seeing can be deceiving, but the eye-test is backed up by the stats:

Despite a sky-high usage, Melo produces less Assist Opportunities per game(6.5) than such notables like Chandler Parsons, Pau Gasol, Demar Derozen, Will Bynum & Luol Deng, despite playing more mpg than practically all of them. He creates less Assist Opportunities per Min than JR, for crying out loud.

Your argument is flawed, so you might want to rethink your whole process.

G'Day


yup all Melo is is a chucker, thats how I know you dont watch basketball


After all, you watch every minute of every Knick game. As a subjective observer, I believe Melo is a habitual ball-stopper, grinding possessions to a halt with his constant desire to isolate, which frequently stagnates any offense . Did it in DEN and is doing the same in NY. As a fan of the sport, its frustrating because he's a good passer in terms of skill. Not great, but certainly capable of making the right plays. He make pocket passes, kick-out passes, cross-court bullets, all the good stuff.

But, as an opposing team's fan, I look forward to games when he's refusing to pass, because it means my team has a better chance to win. There's a reason why George Karl's offense got a lot more freedom and movement in it once Melo was traded.

The above is subjective, based on my opinion as a game-watcher, but here is some objective truth:

This season, Melo has had possession of the ball for 3.5 mpg, a total that is higher than any non-PG with the exception of LeBron James; during that time he shoots 21.6 times a game & he produces 6.5 assist opportunities per game.

Essentially he shoots more than 3 times more than he passes the ball to a teammate in scoring position, regardless of whether the guy makes the shot or not. To put it another way, he averages more defensive rebounds per game than assist chances. Or, to put it even a 3rd way, he passes the ball to a teammate with a scoring chance once out of every 6m he plays, basically twice a quarter. while ranking 4th in usage. That's bad, no matter how you look at it.

What makes matters worse is that the team, as bad as the roster is, has a 6-2 record when Melo gets 5 or more assists, though I must admit, it is really hard to get to 5 assists when you're only passing the ball 6.5 times.

Conclusion: Melo is one of the biggest ball-stopping chuckers in the league. Any one who disagrees with this must be in serious denial or is a mega Melo Fanboy.
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Re: Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curr 

Post#116 » by MojoPharoah » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:09 am

Buggin Out wrote:
MojoPharoah wrote:
Buggin Out wrote:Paul George for his career against Lebron in the Regular season scores 15.5 PPG and shoots 43% from the field against Lebron.

In the post season last year, where PG supposedly "held his own" against Lebron he shot 15 PPG on 43% from the field.

Also if George is such a Lebron stopper how come for their entire matchup Lebron shoots 51% against PG and 41% from 3, compared to shooting just 47% against Carmelo?


Are you considering PG's entire career, including the period where it was Danny Granger's team? Paul George didn't become a true 2-way superstar until this year. Everybody knows that, which is why his name comes up in MIP. He was solid last year, learning how to be the featured player, but he struggled all year. This season, he's at another level. He barely made the ASG last year, but now he's a darkhorse MVP.

And this season, in two RS matchups, PG & LBJ have comparable scoring numbers on comparable efficiency, despite PG guarding LeBron the entire game while LeBron didn't return the favor. Hence, he can be argued as a rival.

Either way if you compare the last two games of PG vs Lebron to the last two of games of Anthony, I'd think you find Melo has the more impressive stats, vs Lebron, unless you just have lower standards for Paul George. Also in the last game Melo put up 29 on 50% shooting against the Heat while guarding Lebron the whole game, while Lebron, because battier was out, guarded Melo the whole time. So yeah I would argue Melo is the better rival and has been for most of Lebron's career.


The last game vs the Knicks, LeBron had 32 points on 70% FG with Melo guarding him. Conversely, PG's held him under his season FG% in both games, while matching LeBron's output, effectively cancelling LBJ out, so to speak. The 2-way impact is what makes PG a better rival, imo.
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Re: Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curr 

Post#117 » by mojay641 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:20 am

lol @ curry having a subpar team. dude is playing with more talent than melo has ever had and its not even remotely close. seriously. iggy, bogut, thompson, AND lee? that might be the most talented starting 5 in the entire freaking league. i think curry is the better player as well but some of these arguments are just awful.
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Re: Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curr 

Post#118 » by MojoPharoah » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:40 am

mojay641 wrote:lol @ curry having a subpar team. dude is playing with more talent than melo has ever had and its not even remotely close. seriously. iggy, bogut, thompson, AND lee? that might be the most talented starting 5 in the entire freaking league. i think curry is the better player as well but some of these arguments are just awful.


Check their performance when he doesn't play. They essentially fall off a cliff. GSW is 0-3 w/o him; they haven't scored above 95 in any of the 3 games he's missed, while scoring 81 and 74 in the other 2. Klay Thompson shot below 31% from the floor in 2 of the games, David Lee struggled to score as well. Curry is the engine that makes them go.
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Re: Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curr 

Post#119 » by Doctor MJ » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:34 am

Mars_Blackmon wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
Mars_Blackmon wrote:because there's more to his game than scoring, which is all guys say he can do

Melo can do it all on the court and guys still dont give him credit for his game

they box score watch, they dont watch the games


Please teach me about the fear that Melo strikes into the heart of opposing shooters.

There isn't a single player that strikes fear into anyone on a basketball court

that has nothing to do with Melo's skill set

again watch games, not box scores thank you


Stop it with your buzzwords and rationalization dude. You said Melo "can do it all on the court". Part of "all" in basketball is defense. Speak to that or walk away.
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Re: Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curr 

Post#120 » by Buggin Out » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:52 am

MojoPharoah wrote:
Buggin Out wrote:
MojoPharoah wrote:
Are you considering PG's entire career, including the period where it was Danny Granger's team? Paul George didn't become a true 2-way superstar until this year. Everybody knows that, which is why his name comes up in MIP. He was solid last year, learning how to be the featured player, but he struggled all year. This season, he's at another level. He barely made the ASG last year, but now he's a darkhorse MVP.

And this season, in two RS matchups, PG & LBJ have comparable scoring numbers on comparable efficiency, despite PG guarding LeBron the entire game while LeBron didn't return the favor. Hence, he can be argued as a rival.

Either way if you compare the last two games of PG vs Lebron to the last two of games of Anthony, I'd think you find Melo has the more impressive stats, vs Lebron, unless you just have lower standards for Paul George. Also in the last game Melo put up 29 on 50% shooting against the Heat while guarding Lebron the whole game, while Lebron, because battier was out, guarded Melo the whole time. So yeah I would argue Melo is the better rival and has been for most of Lebron's career.


The last game vs the Knicks, LeBron had 32 points on 70% FG with Melo guarding him. Conversely, PG's held him under his season FG% in both games, while matching LeBron's output, effectively cancelling LBJ out, so to speak. The 2-way impact is what makes PG a better rival, imo.

Meh, PG really didn't cancel Lebron out since Lebron's team still won and Lebron shot 57% from the floor. Also while Lebron shot 70% most of the time Lebron scored Melo wasn't on him (got switched onto Bargnani a lot as you can see in the clip I posted earlier in the thread). Also Melo won the game in other ways with his playmaking and rebounding.

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