All-Time Fantasy League (2014) - Playoffs: THUNDERDAN9 WINS

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Re: All-Time Fantasy League (2014) - Playoffs 

Post#61 » by Quotatious » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:35 pm

whitehops wrote:imo quotatious you picked a terrible first player to build around and you didn't put together a very good team around him.

* not talent-wise particularly, but fit-wise. that is if you plan to run the offense through kobe (which I am assuming you will otherwise drafting him with that pick would be even more baffling)

That's perfectly fine with me if you think that my team isn't very good. I wasn't only hoping for flattery, but rather for some honest and unbiased evaluation of my roster. That said, I don't really agree with you sentiments here.

First of all, I really don't see how Kobe is a bad first round pick. I had the #9 pick in the first round, and I was only really considering two players - Kobe and D-Rob. Decided to go with Bryant, because I wanted a reliable first option on offense, and a true go-to-guy/closer, who can deal with tough defense effectively. If you look at Kobe's playoff numbers between 2007 and 2009, you can see that his stats (both raw and advanced) were just as good if not better (if you consider how much more difficult it is to score efficiently in the playoffs than during the RS).

I think the only thing that can be bothersome with Bryant is his perceived 'selfishness', but he could still get his 25 points here, and I'm sure he would appreciate having great offensive talent around him here. You have to understand the dynamics of Kobe's development as a player during that stretch - he was becoming more and more responsible and unselfish as a leader, and understood his role better than he did earlier in his career.

I really couldn't pass up the opportunity to draft a poor man's Jordan. :)

Neither English, Mullin or Billups were selfish players, if anything, they were the opposite. English was a scorer first and foremost, but he was also content with playing as a point forward and moving off the ball a lot. If you actually watch Alex play in his prime, he was one of the least ball dominant 25+ PPG scorers that I've ever seen. Probably only Larry Bird was more unselfish among the 80s players. English had quite a bit in common with Dr. J as far as his personality and approach to the game (he was willing to do pretty much everything that was asked of him). He moved extremely well without the ball and had the ability to find openings in opposing defenses. He didn't have a three point range, but he was an excellent midrange shooter with pretty good range (his shot was literally impossible to block and he could make 18-20 footers with ease, even shooting over opponents' hands). There's really no such thing as contesting English's shots, because of his extremely high release point on his jumpshots. He also averaged over 5 assists per game during the 1982-84 stretch and wasn't very turnover prone, so you could count on him to create a few good looks for his teammates, even though he wasn't a particularly impressive ballhandler for a wing player and that's NOT a role that I want him to play on my team. He'll mostly move off the ball, while Billups or Kobe handle it most of the time.

Alonzo needs his touches in the post and he's not a good passer, to say the least, but he could give a few hand-offs to shooters like Kobe, Mullin, English or Billups, or even execute simple passes to cutters if he has a good position to make such a simple pass (I don't want him to put himself in a situation where he can really turn the ball over).

I also like the fact that almost all of my players are above average, or even really excellent defensively. Mullin and Miller are the worst defenders on my team, but Mully was actually very smart and crafty, could provide great help down low and steal the ball, and really play excellent team defense. He was a lot like Larry Bird - he didn't have the athleticism or the footspeed to effectively guard guys 1 on 1 (he was quicker than Bird, but didn't have the size or strength of Larry). Brad Miller was a little below average defensively, overall, and especially poor as a team defender (not a shotblocker), but he was solid in terms of man defense in the post, and pretty strong.


One judge who I'm pretty sure will vote for my team is Penbeast. :) I feel like he really thinks highly of a few of my players (English, Buck, Billups, probably Zo), except Kobe...
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Re: All-Time Fantasy League (2014) - Playoffs 

Post#62 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:12 pm

I dont mind the idea of building a team around Kobe at all and at pick 9 Im not sure you could do any better at all. Kobe shoots too much--obviously, but I dont think of Kobe as being a selfish player at all. When I think of Kobe I think of 2 things above all else:

1. He wants to win as badly as anyone ever not named Michael Jordan. So everything he does needs to be filtered through that lens. Does he feud with Shaq because Shaq could have ended all discussion over who the best big ever was and thus who the best player ever was but refused to put in the work? (please note this is no dis of Shaq, but simply what Kobe sees) Yes. Does he shoot 35 times when playing wiht Lamar and little else offensively? Yep because he believes it gives his team the best chance to win.

2. He has extreme self-confidence. Kobe truly believes he is the best player ever. And with few exceptions the man is correct. He's right to think no one can guard him. So does this lead to him taking too many shots, and forcing shots? Yes. But do I think its because he's selfish? Nope. I just think he believes that highly in himself and when he doesnt trust his teammates he does what he feels he has to do.

Now does this mean Kobe doesnt take it too far at times, and get mad and do stupid petty things like refuse to shoot for a half? Sure he does. But the man is supremely talented and supremely driven and nobody outworks him.

And Im not sure if we are allowed to factor in the 08 Olympics but it did happen in the time period chosen for him and did he worry about being the first option? Nope. First thing he told Coach K was 'I want to guard the best guy every night'. He knew the offense with Lebron, Melo, Paul, Wade, etc was going to be just fine. But he wanted gold and was prepared to do what it takes.

Now I am not a fan of Kobe(his Lakers destroying my Mavs for the better part of 2 decades probably contributes) and I dont know if I would have picked him at 9 for just that reason, but the value was good and you can absolutely build a contender around him in this format. Is it as easy as would be with Mike or Duncan or Bird or Shaq? Of course not which is why all those guys were off the board.
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Re: All-Time Fantasy League (2014) - Playoffs 

Post#63 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:22 pm

As far as your team goes, Quotatious, I like most of it. Its hard to believe Mullin is coming off the bench, but I get why you are doing it. I like Christie and I like Armstrong(tho Im stunned he was drafted) because they have clear specific roles which is smart in a format where your top 6 are so strong. Lamar is a fabulous pick because he can fill in all over the frontcourt. Brad Miller helps the 2nd unit offensively.

Love the Zo/Buck Williams combo. What a nasty duo to have to contend with in the paint. Alex English is such an underrated player as well. Such an effortless scorer who brought a lot more than just scoring to the table. I think those Denver guys from the 80s tend to get overlooked due to that high-octane pace they played at that led to RS success but wasnt sustainable in the PS(see Phoenix in mid 00s).

And what a terrific backcourt. Tough, savvy. Love it.

I think you will suffer with some judges because your bench is pretty weak when you just look at the names. None of those guys were ever star players in the league. But when building a team every one of those guys but Mullin would understand coming off the bench and would know exactly what they were in the game to do. And Im assuming Mullin is going to play heavy minutes anyway as a 6th starter anyway.

I dont imagine you are a favorite, but its a really solid team and nobody would look forward to playing you.
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Re: All-Time Fantasy League (2014) - Playoffs 

Post#64 » by Quotatious » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:00 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:As far as your team goes, Quotatious, I like most of it. Its hard to believe Mullin is coming off the bench, but I get why you are doing it. I like Christie and I like Armstrong(tho Im stunned he was drafted) because they have clear specific roles which is smart in a format where your top 6 are so strong. Lamar is a fabulous pick because he can fill in all over the frontcourt. Brad Miller helps the 2nd unit offensively.

Love the Zo/Buck Williams combo. What a nasty duo to have to contend with in the paint. Alex English is such an underrated player as well. Such an effortless scorer who brought a lot more than just scoring to the table. I think those Denver guys from the 80s tend to get overlooked due to that high-octane pace they played at that led to RS success but wasnt sustainable in the PS(see Phoenix in mid 00s).

And what a terrific backcourt. Tough, savvy. Love it.

I think you will suffer with some judges because your bench is pretty weak when you just look at the names. None of those guys were ever star players in the league. But when building a team every one of those guys but Mullin would understand coming off the bench and would know exactly what they were in the game to do. And Im assuming Mullin is going to play heavy minutes anyway as a 6th starter anyway.

I dont imagine you are a favorite, but its a really solid team and nobody would look forward to playing you.

Thanks.

The only major concern that I have with my team is a lack of great passing from the post in my starting lineup. Neither Zo or Buck can be trusted in this regard, and both struggled to average even two assists per game, and averaged literally twice as many turnovers as assists. :roll: Well, you cannot have everything, I guess...Fortunately, Brad Miller and Odom are both EXCELLENT passing bigmen, and this is something that I'm very grateful being able to accomplish. Initially, I wanted either Sabonis or Divac as my backup center, but my timing with them wasn't quite good enough...Still, prime Miller isn't really that far behind them, and provides two very specific skills that I was targeting - passing and outside shooting as a bigman.

I'm afraid that you may actually be right about some judges not liking my less than spectacular bench, but quite honestly, I thought that it's much better to take less talented players who will accept their roles than superstars who would most likely complain about things like limited playing time or not having enough touches and FGA...That said, I think my talent base is perfectly adequate. I have two top tier MVP candidates at their peaks (Zo and Kobe) and three other borderline top 10 players in very strong eras (English, Mullin, Billups), all of which could be argued as superstars...

You know what's funny to me about my team? Mullin was going to be a starter until the 10th round, when I really felt like my bench doesn't really have any competent (on the all-time level) scoring punch, and I really didn't want English to go undrafted, so I moved Mully to the sixth man role. I'm still trying to figure out the way to find enough playing time for him. :lol: It's a good thing that both English and Mullin can play very well off the ball, and most importantly, are both WILLING to do so.

Quite frankly, building NBA 2K type team with 10 superstars on the roster isn't at all appealing to me. If I knew that the judges would agree with my vision of building a team with clearly defined roles, I'd probably assemble an even less talented team, but one where all of the pieces fit together even better than they do on the team that I actually have right now. Process of searching for suitable role players in the rounds 5-10 to me was actually a very fun part of this exercise.

As I've previosuly mentioned, I'm going to try out a Princeton and flex type offense, similar to the early 2000s Kings. I actually have two key players of that Sacramento squads on my team - Miller and Christie, and all of my bench guys were very unselfish and had great passing ability. I'll also try moving Odom to the starting lineup for Buck Williams and playing some triangle offense with Odom in the mid/high post, and Kobe/Billups on the perimeter. I may also give Chris Mullin a chance to be a part of that, by inserting him into the starting five for English, depending on matchups. Mullin's skillset would IMHO really translate well to the triangle offense, as he can pass, move without the ball to get open, and shoot at an elite level, as well as cut to the basket using screens in a really deceptive way.

Oh, and on a sidenote, I have to admit that I considered taking more talented players at the center and point guard spots - Brad Daugherty instead of Brad Miller at center, and Sam Cassell or Fat Lever at PG, but I decided to go for a better fit rather than talent.
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Re: All-Time Fantasy League (2014) - Playoffs 

Post#65 » by MisterHibachi » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:05 pm

whitehops wrote:
MisterHibachi wrote:.


hey hibachi, I was looking at CaliBullsFan's roster and noticed he selected 95-97 for Schrempf's years. in 97 he only played 61 games.


Dammit. CaliBullsFan needs to change years for Schrempf before his match up starts. If he doesn't clarify, then we'll default it to 94-96, where he played 81, 82, 63.
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Re: All-Time Fantasy League (2014) - Playoffs 

Post#66 » by Notanoob » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:06 pm

Quotatious wrote:Notanoob didn't even take the best possible version of the Dream - this would be '93-'95. Obviously the difference between the '93 and '96 Olajuwon isn't huge, but it's rather visible in terms of his athleticism, which clearly wasn't the same anymore in '96.

Wait, what? I'm pretty sure I took 93-95 Olajuwon. The two years he was champ and the year proceeding those two. Did I screw up how I wrote those down? I certainly didn't intend to, I figured it was common knowledge (on RealGM) that 93-95 was his best stretch, with his actual peak being difficult to distinguish between the three years.
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Re: All-Time Fantasy League (2014) - Playoffs 

Post#67 » by MisterHibachi » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:11 pm

Notanoob wrote:
Quotatious wrote:Notanoob didn't even take the best possible version of the Dream - this would be '93-'95. Obviously the difference between the '93 and '96 Olajuwon isn't huge, but it's rather visible in terms of his athleticism, which clearly wasn't the same anymore in '96.

Wait, what? I'm pretty sure I took 93-95 Olajuwon. The two years he was champ and the year proceeding those two. Did I screw up how I wrote those down? I certainly didn't intend to, I figured it was common knowledge (on RealGM) that 93-95 was his best stretch, with his actual peak being difficult to distinguish between the three years.


MisterHibachi wrote:
O_6 wrote:1. Hakeem Olajuwon (94-96)


Was just looking over some of the players and I think you need to correct the years of eligibility for Hakeem for Notanoob's team. That should be '93-'95 Hakeem, not '94-'96. '93 Hakeem is obviously a different animal from '96 Hakeem.

There may be others that I overlooked but this one was pretty easy to spot.


Notanoob wrote:C: Hakeem Olajuwon (93/94-95/96)/Tree Rollins (82/83-84/85)


viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1293300&start=1095

He chose 94-96.

O_6 wrote:
Notanoob wrote:Sorry I've been taking my time, things got a little hectic in my real life. Now, before I actually submit the years, how much situational stuff gets taken into account?

For instance, Jason Terry is a former 6th Man of the Year, but was regularly a starter during his career. Should I be worried about selecting years when he was a starter, and possibly wouldn't be as willing to come off the bench?

This isn't quit as easy as I figured. Do I take the Vince Carter who didn't whine and played defense (Nets years) or the super-human one in Toronto, including his roookie season?

Some are obvious though. Hakeem is 93-95. Metta is 08-10. Rodman is 89-91 (before he really went crazy). Afflalo is 11-13. Rollins is 82-84.


My bad I didn't see that later post, but a page earlier in that thread he posted the above comment. I guess you have to ask Notanoob to clarify his choice, I think he may have made a typo when he wrote '94-'96.


Since your match up hasn't started yet and there appears to be some confusion/typo in your Hakeem years, you can still change your years if you want.
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Re: All-Time Fantasy League (2014) - Playoffs 

Post#68 » by Notanoob » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:34 pm

MisterHibachi wrote:
Notanoob wrote:
Quotatious wrote:Notanoob didn't even take the best possible version of the Dream - this would be '93-'95. Obviously the difference between the '93 and '96 Olajuwon isn't huge, but it's rather visible in terms of his athleticism, which clearly wasn't the same anymore in '96.

Wait, what? I'm pretty sure I took 93-95 Olajuwon. The two years he was champ and the year proceeding those two. Did I screw up how I wrote those down? I certainly didn't intend to, I figured it was common knowledge (on RealGM) that 93-95 was his best stretch, with his actual peak being difficult to distinguish between the three years.


MisterHibachi wrote:
O_6 wrote:1. Hakeem Olajuwon (94-96)


Was just looking over some of the players and I think you need to correct the years of eligibility for Hakeem for Notanoob's team. That should be '93-'95 Hakeem, not '94-'96. '93 Hakeem is obviously a different animal from '96 Hakeem.

There may be others that I overlooked but this one was pretty easy to spot.


Notanoob wrote:C: Hakeem Olajuwon (93/94-95/96)/Tree Rollins (82/83-84/85)


viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1293300&start=1095

He chose 94-96.

O_6 wrote:
Notanoob wrote:Sorry I've been taking my time, things got a little hectic in my real life. Now, before I actually submit the years, how much situational stuff gets taken into account?

For instance, Jason Terry is a former 6th Man of the Year, but was regularly a starter during his career. Should I be worried about selecting years when he was a starter, and possibly wouldn't be as willing to come off the bench?

This isn't quit as easy as I figured. Do I take the Vince Carter who didn't whine and played defense (Nets years) or the super-human one in Toronto, including his roookie season?

Some are obvious though. Hakeem is 93-95. Metta is 08-10. Rodman is 89-91 (before he really went crazy). Afflalo is 11-13. Rollins is 82-84.


My bad I didn't see that later post, but a page earlier in that thread he posted the above comment. I guess you have to ask Notanoob to clarify his choice, I think he may have made a typo when he wrote '94-'96.


Since your match up hasn't started yet and there appears to be some confusion/typo in your Hakeem years, you can still change your years if you want.
Thanks, I'll double check my years and make sure they're all where I want them to be. I'll have it in my signature, and post the complete list in the proper thread.

These are the years I want:
PG: Mookie Blaylock (94/95-96/97)/Jason Terry (04/05-06/07)
SG: Vince Carter (98/99-00/01)/Arron Afflalo (11/12-13/14)
SF: Paul Pierce (07/08-09/10)/Ron Artest/Metta World Peace (08/09-10/11)
PF: Chris Bosh (07/08-09/10)/Dennis Rodman (89/90-91/92)
C: Hakeem Olajuwon (92/93-94/95)/Tree Rollins (81/82-83/84)
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Re: All-Time Fantasy League (2014) - Playoffs 

Post#69 » by Notanoob » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:24 pm

Laimbeer wrote:I'd attack it from the standpoint there aren't great shooters among the best players around Hakeem. Good, maybe, but not great. I'd also question how Carter will fit with him. If he's not the guy on offense his value is compromised. You've also got Brad Miller, and he and Zo both have the kind of game that could test Hakeem's temper.

I picked out the youngest version of Carter because I felt that my team lacked a true #1 option, even though Hakeem's post game in incredible. In this league though, he won't be ripping up scrub centers , and the post game is not the most efficient thing to channel your offense through unless you're riding Shaq. Carter will be getting the most touches, especially since it's old man Kobe 'guarding' him. Kobe could play defense, but these years he was making all-D teams on reputation much more than on actual play. Carter should be able to tear him up. The shooting isn't spectacular like on some teams, but outside of Rollins and Rodman, everyone is competent enough that you have to at least guard them. In the years I selected, Blaylock and Artest are just above current league average at shooting 3's, JET was above 40%, Pierce is around 38% or 39%, and Carter and Afflalo are around that area too. It's nothing like the Nash/Rice/Dirk shooting bonanza, but it's good enough to draw defenders away from the paint. Hakeem and Bosh also had solid mid range J's, so I can stay very big without awful spacing.

My biggest concern is my guard defense. Afflalo is a good defender, and Mookie is a multiple time 1st team All-Defense guy, but Mookie can't be getting posted up by Kobe at only 6-ish feet tall, and Afflalo isn't a guy I want to give that much burn over Carter, unless he's just getting torched and the rest of my team can't clean up for him.

Thankfully here I feel that I've got the better players at every position outside of SG, and a very solid bench. It's not a bunch of all-stars there either, outside of Rollins and Artest those guys are used to coming off the bench, and the guys ahead of those two are clearly better.
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Re: All-Time Fantasy League (2014) - Playoffs 

Post#70 » by MisterHibachi » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:38 pm

Notanoob wrote:Thanks, I'll double check my years and make sure they're all where I want them to be. I'll have it in my signature, and post the complete list in the proper thread.

These are the years I want:
PG: Mookie Blaylock (94/95-96/97)/Jason Terry (04/05-06/07)
SG: Vince Carter (98/99-00/01)/Arron Afflalo (11/12-13/14)
SF: Paul Pierce (07/08-09/10)/Ron Artest/Metta World Peace (08/09-10/11)
PF: Chris Bosh (07/08-09/10)/Dennis Rodman (89/90-91/92)
C: Hakeem Olajuwon (92/93-94/95)/Tree Rollins (81/82-83/84)


I've changed them. Double check the OP in the Draft thread and make sure I got them right.
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Re: All-Time Fantasy League (2014) - Playoffs 

Post#71 » by john248 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:00 pm

Quotatious wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:As far as your team goes, Quotatious, I like most of it. Its hard to believe Mullin is coming off the bench, but I get why you are doing it. I like Christie and I like Armstrong(tho Im stunned he was drafted) because they have clear specific roles which is smart in a format where your top 6 are so strong. Lamar is a fabulous pick because he can fill in all over the frontcourt. Brad Miller helps the 2nd unit offensively.

Love the Zo/Buck Williams combo. What a nasty duo to have to contend with in the paint. Alex English is such an underrated player as well. Such an effortless scorer who brought a lot more than just scoring to the table. I think those Denver guys from the 80s tend to get overlooked due to that high-octane pace they played at that led to RS success but wasnt sustainable in the PS(see Phoenix in mid 00s).

And what a terrific backcourt. Tough, savvy. Love it.

I think you will suffer with some judges because your bench is pretty weak when you just look at the names. None of those guys were ever star players in the league. But when building a team every one of those guys but Mullin would understand coming off the bench and would know exactly what they were in the game to do. And Im assuming Mullin is going to play heavy minutes anyway as a 6th starter anyway.

I dont imagine you are a favorite, but its a really solid team and nobody would look forward to playing you.

Thanks.

Initially, I wanted either Sabonis or Divac as my backup center, but my timing with them wasn't quite good enough...Still, prime Miller isn't really that far behind them

Process of searching for suitable role players in the rounds 5-10 to me was actually a very fun part of this exercise.

Brad Daugherty instead of Brad Miller at center, and Sam Cassell or Fat Lever at PG, but I decided to go for a better fit rather than talent.


I cherry picked some quote. 1st I like the English pick. He should've gone in the 6th or 7th. 2nd...i don't know if u felt this way but I hated our draft position. I could deal with having Hakeem and pretty much not having a 2nd round pick much easier while getting something close to b2b picks would better establish team identity. 3rd u should've taken Daugherty. Lol

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Re: All-Time Fantasy League (2014) - Playoffs 

Post#72 » by Notanoob » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:00 pm

Looks good MisterHibachi.
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Re: All-Time Fantasy League (2014) - Playoffs 

Post#73 » by ardee » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:23 pm

whitehops wrote:imo quotatious you picked a terrible first player to build around and you didn't put together a very good team around him.

* not talent-wise particularly, but fit-wise. that is if you plan to run the offense through kobe (which I am assuming you will otherwise drafting him with that pick would be even more baffling)


What are you talking about? At no. 9 there was no one better available.
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Re: All-Time Fantasy League (2014) - Playoffs 

Post#74 » by HeartBreakKid » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:57 pm

ardee wrote:
whitehops wrote:imo quotatious you picked a terrible first player to build around and you didn't put together a very good team around him.

* not talent-wise particularly, but fit-wise. that is if you plan to run the offense through kobe (which I am assuming you will otherwise drafting him with that pick would be even more baffling)


What are you talking about? At no. 9 there was no one better available.

I would have went with Garnett myself, but I don't get how Kobe Bryant is a bad first round pick in the slightest. Really strange post by whitehops.
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Re: All-Time Fantasy League (2014) - Playoffs 

Post#75 » by MisterHibachi » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:02 pm

Kobe definitely deserved to go in the first round. But I've seen plenty people argue on this board that KG/Dirk/Wade/D-Rob had a better prime and a greater impact, so maybe that's what whitehops was referring to. I wouldn't have taken Kobe there, probably would've went with Dirk or Robinson, but Kobe is def a 1st round player.
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Re: All-Time Fantasy League (2014) - Playoffs 

Post#76 » by john248 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:51 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:
ardee wrote:
whitehops wrote:imo quotatious you picked a terrible first player to build around and you didn't put together a very good team around him.

* not talent-wise particularly, but fit-wise. that is if you plan to run the offense through kobe (which I am assuming you will otherwise drafting him with that pick would be even more baffling)


What are you talking about? At no. 9 there was no one better available.

I would have went with Garnett myself, but I don't get how Kobe Bryant is a bad first round pick in the slightest. Really strange post by whitehops.


I probably would've went with Dirk. But yea agreed, Kobe being drafted there isn't over or under valuing him. He's a guy we've seen have a champ team built around.
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Re: All-Time Fantasy League (2014) - Playoffs 

Post#77 » by whitehops » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:56 pm

I seem to be getting a lot of flack for that comment so i'll explain myself a little bit.

high-volume scoring guards that operate mainly from the perimeter (or mid-range, whatever) are not the best players to create an offense around. they don't put a lot of pressure on the interior of a defense (where you SHOULD be attacking) and generally take less efficient shots. in 2007 78% of kobe's shots were jumpers... he took more than half of his shots beyond 16 feet, the majority of those being inside the three point line (at 42.5% in 2007, 38.4% in 2008 and 43.4% in 2009).

the order of priority in terms of where you want to take your shots from (assuming they are all good looks) are:
1. at the rim
2. three point line
3. mid range

all three are crucial to a good offense but you don't want to work backwards through that order of importance. look at the spurs and heat, for example. their primary goal offensively is to get to the rim and put pressure on the defense, get them scrambling (parker, LeBron, wade). then when the defense compensates they try to get the next best shot which is an open three pointer (green, allen, etc.). when all this doesn't work the ball goes to the midrange shooters (Duncan, bosh) and they are the ones that make teams pay. I don't think anyone would say bosh is a better shooter than kobe, but that's how he shoots 49% from midrange as opposed to low 40's like kobe. it takes ball movement to get those looks, and I don't feel having your offense run through kobe helps that.

defensively, shooting guards have nowhere near the defensive impact that larger players have. I don't think I have to explain that one too much.


I know people will point to MJ and Kobe's 11 rings combined, but you have to understand that they played in a system designed to get the ball inside and put pressure on the defense that way. I think Jordan doesn't really qualify anyways, since his scoring was extremely efficient and was a good playmaker.

I would have rather taken anyone else in the first round (except maybe erving) before I took kobe, but that's just me.


bottom line I think you have to be very calculated with the roster you put around a player like kobe, and I don't feel quotatious really did.

note: I think kobe would be a spectacular second option to run an offense through
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Re: All-Time Fantasy League (2014) - Playoffs 

Post#78 » by ardee » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:37 am

whitehops wrote:note: I think kobe would be a spectacular second option to run an offense through


Kobe had an On-Court ORtg of 116.1 in 2009, how is that not a spectacular first option?

Dude a team with Kobe had the 7th best ORtg in the league in 2006 despite the fact that the 3rd, 4th and 5th options were Smush Parker, Luke Walton and Kwame Brown.

That statement you made just ignores the very real facts that we know to be true
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Re: All-Time Fantasy League (2014) - Playoffs 

Post#79 » by whitehops » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:47 am

ardee wrote:
whitehops wrote:note: I think kobe would be a spectacular second option to run an offense through


Kobe had an On-Court ORtg of 116.1 in 2009, how is that not a spectacular first option?

Dude a team with Kobe had the 7th best ORtg in the league in 2006 despite the fact that the 3rd, 4th and 5th options were Smush Parker, Luke Walton and Kwame Brown.

That statement you made just ignores the very real facts that we know to be true


the lakers as a team had an ORtg of 112.8, putting kobe +3.3 above that. gasol, on the other hand, led the team (and the league) that year with an ORtg of 125.6, which is +12.8 above. please, please try to argue that kobe was the backbone of that offense. he may have shot the ball the most but was not the main reason the lakers had a great offense that year.
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Re: All-Time Fantasy League (2014) - Playoffs 

Post#80 » by ardee » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:30 am

whitehops wrote:
ardee wrote:
whitehops wrote:note: I think kobe would be a spectacular second option to run an offense through


Kobe had an On-Court ORtg of 116.1 in 2009, how is that not a spectacular first option?

Dude a team with Kobe had the 7th best ORtg in the league in 2006 despite the fact that the 3rd, 4th and 5th options were Smush Parker, Luke Walton and Kwame Brown.

That statement you made just ignores the very real facts that we know to be true


the lakers as a team had an ORtg of 112.8, putting kobe +3.3 above that. gasol, on the other hand, led the team (and the league) that year with an ORtg of 125.6, which is +12.8 above. please, please try to argue that kobe was the backbone of that offense. he may have shot the ball the most but was not the main reason the lakers had a great offense that year.


What are you talking about? Pau's On Court was 115.1, lower than Kobe's.

Kobe was +12 On-Off, Pau was +4.5.

Do you actually think Gasol was more important than Kobe :lol: ?

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